Hopes and Predictions for the Upcoming Codex

[wildeyedjester]

This was originally posted over at www.thehogsofwar.blogspot.com , by Monkey. I thought I would repost it here for your viewing pleasure and discussion, since this is truly its target audience. Feel free to drop by over at our blog and let Monkey know your thoughts.

 

So, I’m back, and I’ve brought along my hopes, dreams, and nightmares for the upcoming Space Wolves Codex. A number of rumors have been floating around about what the Wolves are going to wind up getting, but I thought I might take a moment to send a prayer up to the gaming gods on behalf of my fellow Wolf Brothers.

 

HQs: I must admit that we have some very potent melee HQs, some of the best in the game in fact. However, 2 of our HQS only have Ld of 9 (dang near suicidal in the new rules), and the WS of even our Lords is equivalent to some armies’ troops (read “anything” of Khorne). However, if they didn’t change the statline of our HQs one jot, I’d be okay. What I really need is for them to make them more distinguishable from each other. They are rather interchangeable as is, and I think it robs the SWs of some of their much-deserved flavor.

 

Wolf Lords: I assume we will be losing an attack, though melee is our forte, so maybe not. Though it cannot be denied that all of our HQs are melee beasts, the WL definitely needs a bump in WS and the addition of an iron halo or comparable invulnerable save. It’s less a points issue and more the fact that we are limited to one Belt of Russ per army. This is odd considering we actually have to take more HQs than anybody else.

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Vanilla Space Marines lack a comparable HQ, so I’m not sure what GW will do with these guys. They need a WS and a Ld bump, especially the latter. It seems like I take 3-4 Ld tests a turn, and that one point makes a huge difference.

 

Rune Priest: Where should I start? We need more powers, period. While Storm Caller has its advantages (that LR that’s blasting away at you and driving down your throat is actually in cover), it often loses its effectiveness, and the 5+ save is a joke considering the relative abundance of 4+ cover saves. Essentially, compared to the SM Librarian, we pay 34 more points for a similarly equipped HQ (admittedly with 2 Attacks, 1 point of BS, and 1 point of Initiative) with 1 fewer point of Ld and one fewer spell. It’s not that this is particularly unfair, but the RPs aren’t different enough from our other HQs to make them as appealing of a choice.

 

Wolf Priest: I think this is my biggest complaint. First of all, you almost have to take a Wolf Priest unless you want one of your HQs to get squished by a power fist without even an attempt at a save, see one Belt of Russ per army. Also, for 2 points fewer (frag and krak grenades make the WP 98 points) we get 1 point of BS, 2 attacks, and 1 point of Initiative. That sounds great until you think about Liturgies of Battle and Honour of the Chapter. Fearless and re-rolls on the first round of an assault, are you joking? I don’t know if we’ll get either of those from a balance standpoint (15 Fearless Blood Claws with re-rolls is a very scary thing indeed), but we need something to distinguish the WP, much like the RP.

 

Venerable Dreadnought: I love my Venerable. He was the first thing I painted for this army. I’m afraid, however, that he may become too expensive to be viable in the new book. For 16 points fewer than vanilla SM, we get an assault cannon equipped Dread with one more attack and the ability to re-roll the deployment roll. Throw in Extra Armour and the difference becomes 26 points. So, I fear for the viability of our Ven. I’ve heard some rumors about Bjorn, so I’d guess that he might get the re-roll instead of all Vens.

 

Elites:

 

Wolf Guard (unit leaders): To me, this is one of the coolest parts of the SW codex, the ability to take widely varied unit leaders. I’m not sure how they are going to be changed, but I would guess that they will lose some of their options and gain a more specific list like SM sergeants currently have. I also hope they fix the wacky “1 elite choice of 1-20 WG” and just have them serve as sergeants or replace those same sergeants.

 

Wolf Guard Bodyguard: I’m going to focus on the terminator issue. I’m aware that we have some nasty melee units, Blood Claws for instance, but it hurts my soul every time I hear about the destructive power of TH/SS terminators and realize that mine are just too danged expensive. We pay 55 points per, while SM only pay 40. Our lightning claws are more comparable but still cost 5 more points than their SM equivalent. I’ve also read that we might not even be able to take TH/SS. I can see that from a fluff standpoint (we are a slavering horde and all that), but it still makes me a little sad. I’m sure someone out there is saying, “What about counter-attack and acute senses and…?” I agree that those special rules make our terminators, along with the rest of our units, a bit better than the average SM equivalent. However, I assume we will lose at least one of those, probably counter-attack, and that they will then be tied to Special Characters similar to the SM builds. We’ll see what GW does.

 

Wolf Scouts: It’s undeniable that our scouts are better than the SM version, better WS, better BS, and the ability to automatically come on from the back. (I thought outflanking had largely neutered this, but I’ve found it to be a wonderful asset. The idea of even just 4 guys coming on with melta-bombs makes your opponent pause. It’s especially nice with the new IG ability to make you re-roll your flank.) However, we do pay more per model, 2 points and we don’t have krak grenades. To be honest, I think these guys are pretty fairly priced. They don’t cost too much because their arrival can be a game changer, but they aren’t too cheap because they aren’t troops (I can’t stress the importance of that enough.) and cost slightly more than their SM equivalent.

 

Iron Priest and Thralls: To be honest, I’ve never used this guy, so I have very little concept of his effectiveness. Any comments you might have regarding their cost as compared to their SM equivalent would be appreciated.

 

Troops: Just a note, all of my comments on the troops are made assuming we will lose some of our special rules. (See Wolf Guard Bodyguard entry.)

 

Grey Hunters: These guys are too expensive. This may be a play style issue for me, though. I like assault, and True Grit loses most of its effectiveness in that style. It also negates the usefulness of our counter-attack ability for this unit. Similarly armed, they cost 5 points more than a SM. So, I assume we will get a price break here. The other bone of contention will be the cost of our “Unit Accessories.” My buddies and I have had several somewhat heated discussions about this. It is true that our PW/PF load-outs make us notably better than SM in melee, but that is our schtick. Our PF are also quite cheap compared to those of the SM, 10 points cheaper for GH and 13 for BC. However, our meltaguns are more expensive, 5 and 3 points respectively for the GH and BC. Also, we don’t get a free, or remarkably cheap, Heavy Weapon. Therefore, I don’t know that we’re going to see a large price hike for our PF, but we’ll see.

 

Blood Claws: These guys are my favorite. I run three units of them, taking only the required unit of GH. I think the adjustments to their points will be determined by how their rules change. Currently, they are probably the best troop choice in the game for assault, at least that’s my opinion. However, they die in droves due to their lower WS. They lose their effectiveness after the initial onslaught, and with the prevalence of Fearless/Stubborn units in the game they often get to that second round of melee no matter how many you kill. I assume we will lose Berserk Charge and that it will be replaced with the USR Furious Charge. That is just fine with me. From a Mathhammer standpoint, if you ignore special weapons, they will still cause about the same number of wounds on the charge, depending upon what you are fighting. However, when you figure in special weapons, Berserk Charge does have the potential to cause more wounds due to the PF. On the other hand, Furious Charge would give them +1 initiative, which would allow them to swing simultaneously with quicker units (Eldar and the like) and before SM and such. This should greatly enhance their survivability. If they keep the points the same and swap Berserk Charge for Furious Charge, that’d be okay with me. One last thing, if they give the wolf priest an ability similar to the SM Chaplain’s Liturgies of Battle, BCs will become just about the scariest thing on the field, similar to Death Company.

 

Fast Attack:

 

Blood Claws Bike Pack: I don’t run these guys currently. I think they’d be pretty formidable, but I don’t want to run a character on a bike, so I think they’d be pretty easy to bait with Headstrong. If they allow them to run with an attack bike, I might be more apt to take them.

 

Heavy Support:

 

Long Fangs: I don’t take these guys. The ability to split fire is awesome, but I prefer tanks for my heavies, and with their inability to take “plain” Marines to soak up wounds, they die pretty quickly, even with cover. Also, running 1 sergeant and 4 LF armed with lascannons, is almost as expensive as a Land Raider. Again, this may be a play style issue. They’re too stagnant for me.

 

Leman Russ Exterminator: I’m pretty sure this is gone. I know Leman Russ is our patriarch and all, but it doesn’t fit the army for any other reason. Take into account the fact that I can take a similarly armed Predator (autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons) for 115 fewer points. Yes, you lose twin-linked and a point of armour, but 115 points? Now, if you want to give me some of the other Leman Russ variants

from the new IG codex, we can talk.

[Ryzouken]

Methinks, toward the end there (especially in the HS area) you began to focus more on what is, and less on what could be.

 

For Long Fangs to compete for a slot they need:

+1 Wound

+1 Toughness

+0-5 extra Fangs with bolters (Sternguard ammo optional)

reduced equipment costs

reduced trooper costs

 

For an Exterminator to remain:

needs to match the IG Exterminator, +30 points and BS 4.

Might go the way of the dodo, but I hope not as it was always cool to field an IG tank in my SW. Made em special.

 

On the bit about special rules: We really need to keep Counter Attack. It, along with True Grit, were the two abilities that make SW different from any other SM chapter. Yes, our weapons options were different (everyone's was) yes, we have oddly sized units (though Codex marines can mostly match our unit sizes. Blood Claws not withstanding), and yeah, we get spiffy scouts, but it was True Grit and Counterattack that defines us. Those and the odd HQ Dreadnought ;)

 

So we keep Counter Attack, maybe get BP/CCW/Bolter, and don't get either Combat Tactics or Combat Squads. I can see our V Dreads dropping the initiative reroll and staying Elite only, but with Bran as an HQ with the reroll returned (at about 200 points though). I can see WG getting split into a single Elite unit of Termies, HQ retinue, and independant squad leaders. Maybe 0-1 on both the retinue and Termie unit. I can see us retaining TH/SS options, and I can see Wolf Priests getting Chaplain rites and the Rune Priest getting Gate and an improved (and more clearly worded) Stormcaller.

 

We'll likely not get either the Thunderfire or the Vanguard Vets (keep yer feet on the ground!) or any equivalencies, might pick up an open topped transport option. Spiffy Predator variant would be kewl, but isn't probably in the cards.

[Megalodon]

Spiffy Predator variant would be kewl, but isn't probably in the cards.

A pred variant is more likely to happen than you might think and most rumors point towards losing the LR Exterminator tank.

[Ryzouken]

having seen the source of those rumors, I'm less than inclined to believe them.

[Megalodon]

Believe what you will, but I cannot remember the last time Brimstone at Warseer was wrong. Twice now he has hinted that the LRE is leaving the dex and there might be a Pred variant as a replacement.

[clanfield]

wish list ey.....

 

1 pred variant with a punisher canon heavy 20 B)

2 ls storm or valk for scouts as a transport option

3 points reduction for most infantry,and a seperate entry for jp blood claws

4 maybe a combination of dreadnought and ironclad options for the ven dread

5 a return to grey armour:)

6 rune powers for the priest would be nice other than storm caller/gate

7 include the potions in the cost of wolf priests

 

i like the iron priest hes great in a bunch of blood claws,

[Corpse.]

Aside from points fixes for blood claws. Im certain that 13th company will be included in the codex as a side option unit of 0-1 like the legion of the damned were included in the regular vanilla codex. A mesh (tat may screw over 13th co players) they might add a special character that changes their slot choice so a 13th company would be possible. Like deathwing/ravenwing troop choices for DA.

 

Long fangs, I see them getting higher ballistic skill or reroll to hits. I dont think they will allow more ablative bodies be inside that unit.

 

Leman russes, I think they will remain, if not as an entire entry, being of any kind of Leman Russ. To be spiffy and promote sales among existing SW players who all already own Leman Russ Exterminators. (Same for chaos taking away 0-1 limit to obliterators, remember this is a 3rd ed codex going 5th)

 

The HQ limits per points will be removed, and the powers will be shifted a bit to resemble the typical powers of 5th edition.

 

I see true grit going away, and seeing pistol+ccw+bolter being typical. Also removing the 1+ limit, as always.

 

The termies(guard) will be driven into their own limited entry perhaps similar to chaos terminators but with imperial weapons. Sadly, this means buying more models. (yay or boo?)

 

I think one surprise unit will also be added, maybe along the lines of the wolf-techmarine's servitor specials, as an added bonus. That's my guess though, GW always tosses in a new staplemark unit that everyone wants in the end.

 

(Chaos it was oblits at 3.0, then they added a complete new range at 3.5 to sell new legion sets, then current set sold for yet a new mini range)

 

I see SW's getting a shaft in the old army set, not only making the older models seem dull and static, but also busting out the rules to gnaw at your current lists making you remodel with old bits that you do not own, forcing your wallet open to make them WYSIWYG.

[clanfield]

i agree with the last point ,just the bp ,cc,bolter would mess with many fine grey hunter squads

maybe the new unit would be somthing like the thunderfire easy for them to produce but fluffy arco tech

 

be nice if we got a master of the forge type char ,i feel sorry for the 13th guys i know gw have said no one will get left behind but id be very nervous if i was them

 

but on the plus side hopefully new art new fluff new figures be nice if there some new char with wolfys in the box we realy need new rune and wolf priest 's and thats not to say the iron priest isnt in need of a make over

 

as to the black templar style upgrade box rumor be nice to get some rhino door's or something like that

i think that the release has taken so long to apear because gw are reworking the range which is always good work

[the jeske]

. (Same for chaos taking away 0-1 limit to obliterators, remember this is a 3rd ed codex going 5th)

yes and they took away basilisk , the spiffy IW only hvy support. New pred yes , LR no.

[Ryzouken]

In fact, it's GW's pledge not to invalidate legal models in new editions of rules that makes me think the rumor about losing the Exterminator is horsepucky. BS 4 TL 4 shot Autocannons sound awesome though.

 

And of course GW's reworking our model range. Right now it exists as outdated tactical, assault, and devastator marine boxes with an upgrade sprue tacked on with a handful of metal blisters. Still, can't wait to see what awesomeness they come up with.

[Grey Mage]

I want a Leman Russ, and WS 5 BCs! and BS 5 LFs! and a PONY!

 

*shrugs*

[Darkseer]

a rending pony! ;)

[Skalver]

Ok, I haven't played at all in 5th edition (or even in 4th) so points and things I can't comment on, but from rumours and stuff here is some of my speculations. This is all guesswork by the way so take it with a grain of salt.

 

1. The retinues rule will go, instead you will be required to buy a Wolf Guard Leader for every GH, BC and WS pack. The packs become retinues for individual WG, the command structure for the company is made much cleaner (the WL just tells his WG what to do) and brought in line with the books and the clunky retinues rule goes all in one fell swoop. Grey Hunter squad size minimum would have to come down by 1 to allow them to still take a razorback. They could also rejig the model range around the concept of having one cool WG model in every squad.

 

2. WG Bodyguards get replaced with WG squads, each one as an elites choice.

 

3. Will Not Teleport won't apply if the rest of your army deep strikes (using jump packs or drop pods). (I suspect the Drop Pods are either all or none of your army rumour is a bastardisation of this which I would see as a much more sensible and realistic reinterpretation of Will Not Teleport).

 

4. RP, IP, WP gain abilities more like their SM equivalents.

 

5. JP equipped Blood Claws as a fast attack choice replacing the clunky bike swap there is now.

 

Those I see likely mostly because they clean up the structure of the codex, unit efficiencies I can't really comment on, I am sure others know much better.

 

As for other stuff that could be cool or nice but seem less likely:

 

1. Option to bike mount your troops if the WL is on a bike.

 

2. Long Fangs gain Feel No Pain special rule. They should be old and tough with thick leathery skin by then after all. Giving them the ability to capture objectives (despite being a heavy support choice) could be interesting too and could balance the lack of an ability to split our troops choices into combat squads.

 

3. Grey becomes the chapter colour again. Whatever muppet first decided to replace it with blue gets handed over to the inquisition until he recants his heresy.

 

4. The LRE gets replaced by an Iron Priest special character in a LRE / Predator hybrid.

 

5. They bring back those cool looking wolf scout miniatures from the codex book and ditch the inappropriate looking "young recruit" wolf scouts they are trying to peddle to us now.

[Max_Dammit]

3. Grey becomes the chapter colour again. Whatever muppet first decided to replace it with blue gets handed over to the inquisition until he recants his heresy.

 

Sorry but shadow gray has been used for wolves for ever, and not everybody likes stone grey marines ;)

[Aeric]

1. Greyhunters with counter attack only. Current rules too confusing.

2. Bloodclaws exactly as is. I like the ws3 bs3. It suits the fluff, and i'm always routing for them to do well. +2A on charge not furious charge a bit too powerful).

3. Cheaper longfangs. Paying 36pts for serg. is silly. esp. as vanilla marines can no split fire fore free. Plus they get extra bods to soak up fire.

4. 35pt rhinos obviously.

5. New psychic abilities. Stormcaller sucks.

6. Reduction in greyhunter upgrades. We get too many.

7. Frag and krak as standard. Then i wouldn't have to take as many powerfists.

8ish - Lots of cool new models and fluff.

[Bjorn the Fell-Handed]

a rending pony! :)

Kudos on PRIMARCHS reference; a cookie and a pint of the Fangs Finest for that man!

 

1. Greyhunters with counter attack only. Current rules too confusing.

How? Everything that isnt a Long Fang gets it (aside from the Dreads, and even then, Ive seen it argued)

2. Bloodclaws exactly as is. I like the ws3 bs3. It suits the fluff, and i'm always routing for them to do well. +2A on charge not furious charge a bit too powerful).

WS3? For people that are used to fighting in CC since they were young? It makes sense for WS4, but BS3 by fluff terms. As for berserk charge, well, GW is getting rid of things like this, attempting to standardise rules to streamline things. Besides, Furious charge is IMHO better. Ill explain

Rumours have been saying Furious charge + larger size squads. OK, thats how itll work in optimum conditions. But lets say its still 15. Thats 36 normal attacks and 9 power weapon attacks/6 powerfist attacks, depening on configuration. At least here, things like Wraitlords can be hurt by Massed BC charges. Also, remember, these strike at not only str , but at I 5. Means your opponents get less chance to strike back at you. Less attacks, but at higher I and S= good form my standpoint.

3. Cheaper longfangs. Paying 36pts for serg. is silly. esp. as vanilla marines can no split fire fore free. Plus they get extra bods to soak up fire.

This is an old complaint. btw, Vanillas can't split fire for free as you say, UNless you mean combat squadding down to 2 squads with seperate heavy weapons. Then the squad suffers from the problem of a long fang squad.

 

4. 35pt rhinos obviously.

Im not sure if this go FAQ'd......

5. New psychic abilities. Stormcaller sucks.

It was good in 4th, back when we hit first. We'll get something cool

6. Reduction in greyhunter upgrades. We get too many.

....... Too may upgrades?! WTH is this?!

7. Frag and krak as standard. Then i wouldn't have to take as many powerfists.

Frag and Krak= useless for CC purposes. Can't be used against MC's like fexes or Wraithlords, while Dreads are 6's then 6's to glance. Ironclads just disregard this. Fists= more all purpose, and therefore, better. As for all frag, I wouldn't say no to that, but hey, Im not expecting it.

8ish - Lots of cool new models and fluff

Amen.

 

Ill wait for the Dex to be in my hands, like Brother Grey Mage. or at least till my local manager has seen/has a copy for my perusal/drooling/viewing pleasure.

[Bobman]

My only real wish is that we get some ultimate badass HQ units. We're supposed to be combat heavy marines, that was what we were oringinally billed as. Now standard marine HQs have a higher WS. I think that's a little wrong.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have heard that Phil Kelly is writing the new codex so that must be a good thing. I think we will be able to field very unique armies with a high degree of customisation. I am hoping the GW does not go the route with having to field special characters for our HQ to field competitive armies. Seeing the new warboss is very popular amongst those who play Orks I reckon there is a good chance we will be able to field a generic Wolf Lord that rocks. I really hope we lose the rule requiring one HQ for every 750 points... That's always been more of a hindrance for me than a good thing. I think we can all agree that we probably won't see combat squads appearing in our new codex. It would be great to still be able to field variable squad sizes for our troop choices without any restrictions.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed that we be able to play the 13th Company again... I loved that army.

 

0b :P

[Jonny Wolf]

I LOVE a HQ for every 750pts! Talk about fluff...and those guys running around owning fools makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :P

 

It just screams fluff and individuality - totally separates us from ALL the other chapters.

[The God Emperor]

I LOVE a HQ for every 750pts! Talk about fluff...and those guys running around owning fools makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :)

 

It just screams fluff and individuality - totally separates us from ALL the other chapters.

 

I concur. I don't see other chapters having to field compulsory HQs at 750. It can be either interpreted as a curse or a gift, I think it's a gift.

 

Wolf Tooth Necklace makes up for our HQs lower BS atm. 3+ to hit against all targets with WS? YES PLEASE. My WGBL has the potential to kill Abaddon.

[Lord Hjamlar]

OMG, OMG, OMG! :P Some proper bull:cuss appears here and there, and we are Wolves, not Bulls, btw imagine Red Bulls Chpater made around red bull drink

 

Here is the almost perfect wish list for the new 'dex ;)

 

Troops:

GH - point cost reworking + basic equipment, CSM style + bonus equipment - I'd like to see GH squads bein' able to take 2 x PF/PW, 2 x PP and 2 x special weapon ;)

BC - WS 4, BS 3 + basic equipment, CSM styl - bolters + bonus equipment - melta bombs as an option, flamers and melters only - plasma weapon is always portrayed as kind of marksman weapon + it's dangerous so why would we give it to are youngsters? + special rules change - the +2A is great, but I feel GW will make it disappear

Fenrisian Wolf Packs - does not count towards required Troops, 13th Co. style + point cost reworking

 

Fast Attack:

BC Bikers - point cost reworking + all the BC changes

BC Jumpers - serious point cost reworking + all the BC changes

 

H. Support:

LF - 4 - 9 LF squad and leader + point cost reworking + BS 5 + basic equipment, CSM style + bonus equipment - I always felt that the 13th Co. LF fit more into SW theme with their ability to take both assault and heavy weapons, just in higher numbers - 0 to 4 assault or h. weapons + 2 x PF/PW + special rules - I feel that LF should bring sth more than only extra firepower to the battlefield, what would u say for and LD "aura" or some support for the HQ rules?

LRE - can't really make my mind on what to do here... T

 

Elites:

Scouts - point cost reworking + basic equipment - as they are more elite I feel they should come with all the basic tools: all the grenades types, bolt pistols, ccw + bonus equipment, the current one is fine, though we could get sth additional and nasty, like sniper bolters or so

IP - point cost reworking + bonus equipment, thralls and full servo harness, I can't really see why we should get this techmarine master gun ;)

Wolf Guards Termies - point cost reworking + bonues equipment, current rules are perfect, except for point cost of several weapons in the armoury + special rules - as they WG are sth like mixture of all the elite SM infantry, I would go for - 1 type of special ammo + 1 veteran skill + the ability to teleport, but with a slight minus, maybe only when the whole army DS?

Wolf Guard Power Armour - all the above + bonus equipment, 3 x special weapon, h. flamer, bolter with suspensor, melter, plasma gun, flamer

 

HQ:

Wolf Lord - +1 more A and WS than vanilla one, higher cost ofc + some kind of special rule, the orbital bombardment does not fit for me ;)

WP - no idea TBH

RP - more powers - reworked Storm Caller, some short range multilating tool ;) some summoning power - the RP summons D3 Valkyrie style wolf spirits - unmodified save etc., etc.

Ven. dread - better stats, inferno cannon :P more armour + special rule, as the current one.

 

SC:

Logan - Da Big Daddy, kicks ass of almost anyone including Ahriman + supports the whole army via some special rules + sth more

Ragnar - Da Hot Blooded Guy, fleet + 1A on charge for his unit

Njal - Da Big Ugly Psi Killer

Bjorn - a walking LR with re-rolls ;) with a little CC fetish

 

T.B.C.

[Grey Mage]

As long as we get the ven-dread as an optional HQ then its a gift. Without it, Id be a little more pressed personally.

[lunchb0x]

a rending pony! :rolleyes:

Kudos on PRIMARCHS reference; a cookie and a pint of the Fangs Finest for that man!

 

1. Greyhunters with counter attack only. Current rules too confusing.

How? Everything that isnt a Long Fang gets it (aside from the Dreads, and even then, Ive seen it argued)

 

 

 

Dont vehicles have leadership 10? so wouldnt the dread get it? he has a LD...though you could stretch it to say even a rhino gets an attack...but that would then fall under ramming.

 

and link to BStones posts about it...I get lost in there...LOLOL

[Ryzouken]

Vehicles do not possess an LD value. Dreadnoughts fall under this classification.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It would be awesome if our venerables had Rites of Battle.

 

I would also like to see Grey Hunters equipped automatically with bolter, bolt pistol and a chainsword. It would also be pretty cool if they could infiltrate. Prior to Grey Slayers I had always said that the Grey Hunter was the best tactical Marine in the game. I think it would be awesome if they could take two special weapons when the new codex is released.

 

0b <_<