Best anti-tank?

[Brother Grius]

What do you guys think are the best anti-tank choices for Chaos Space Marines? I've been looking at a few options and I'm considering trying out 5 Chosen with Meltaguns doing their Infiltrate thing. Has anyone else tried this before, and what kind of success have you had?

[teh_perfesser]

Obliterators or Termicide units (three terminator with combi-meltas) are most effective. If you have more points than you know what to do with, double melta Raptors work too (if you've filled up heavy and elite spots and still think you need more meltas).

 

If you insist on Chosen, mount them in a Rhino and use Infiltrate to Outflank; the combination of Rhino protection and Outflank makes up for some of their weaknesses--not an optimal unit choice, but it can work.

[Drac0]

Termicide + Oblierators.

(I never used chosen, there again, I'm new to chaos)

[Zhukov]

Oblits

[Corpse.]

Best anti tank tacticlly: Obliterators

-Deep strike melta weapons.

-Long range mobile lascannons, that benefit from your own troops giving them obscure saves.

 

Best anti tank statisticlly: (Points and guns) Lascannon predator.

Cheapest lascannons.

-Vehicle, immune to many weapons by default.

-12" move (faster on roads) when its needed.

-Mobile TLLC.

 

Best anti tank in terms of distance: Terminators

-Deep strike combi weapons.

-Spread out wounds.

-Cheaper then Obliterators deep striking.

 

Best anti tank by surprise:

-Chosen Outflanking properly

-Obliterators and Termiators Deep Striking

 

 

Though I prefer obliterators deep striking and hitting side armors with their lascannons or multimeltas. Rather then get so close with terminators and termicide. I have been running chosen recently, only as an experiment. I think plasma guns are best with them, because side armor is so squishy to 2x the shots, at least so far. (Havent faced certain things yet with that unit)

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

I just run meltas in my squads,but my moto is if it kills a marine it wins.If your gonna do a strick one shot tank kill unit I would have to say termies w/combi-metlas or oblits.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Heavy Support I'd say Obliterators as other have said.

 

There not stactic like Havocs, able to keep on the move while fire a heavy weapon. Oblits also nice & cheaper than say a Predators/Land Riader (if it was 4th Ed days then I would happily take my 4x Preds & 6 Oblits ;) ) free up pts for else where in your army.

 

Elites I'd say Termies are pretty good as well as long as you have some Combi Melta/Plasma &/or a Autocannon (that twin linked I belive). But I'd highly recommend Deep Striken them.

 

These are my two unit of chose in my current Iron Warriors list, while my squads do have weapon to take on tanks they are mostly 90% in Combat in my games.

 

IP

[Joshta]

It really depends on what else you have in your army.

 

I am a vechile nazi, I love them and i love them hard. The thing is if you pack a ton of vehicles 1 of 2 things is going to happen your sheer number of ur vehicles will overwhelm your oppenets anti tank capabilities OR you get owned by a bunch by an overly zealus anti tank army, which will probably get trashed by normal armies.

 

I use a laspred, 2 vindicators, terms w/1chainfist &Land Raider, 2 dreadnuaghts and a few squads with vet sgts w/powerfists or PW+melta's to deal with Anti tank. TLLC KILL

 

Imo the most important thing in picking up anti tank is making it blend with your army! for example if u have a full mounted choas force anything that you deepstrike is probably going to get owned. If you deepstrike Obilatrators u may blow up any vehicle without a second though, but ur obilators are going to take all the basic infantry fire. IF your an infantry guy obiltorators might be a better option because you can use the nifty cover save.

 

One thing that I want to suggest is a squad of 3 bikers w/ 2meltas, Or 2 attack bikes with multi melta's. If you can grab cover You can pretty much get them anywhere on the board on T2. I'll suicide these guys on a anti tank tank (hammer head or las pred) And its a fast attack troop choice, which i am typically 0/3

[the jeske]

If you deepstrike Obilatrators u may blow up any vehicle without a second though, but ur obilators are going to take all the basic infantry fire. IF your an infantry guy obiltorators might be a better option because you can use the nifty cover save.

ok , I think am not getting this . are you trying to win a game without losing any models ? :huh: In games I play oblits and DPs die 90% [well almost always unless its a masacer] of time . I dotn care if deep striking oblits die , but I do care about poping eldar and tau skimers as fast as possible , becaue If I dont do that [and most people dont play 2250 like you or at least that how it looks to me from the untis you listed +estimated troops cost] , I will get owned hard by those. Same about LR rush builds or IG .

 

 

If you can grab cover You can pretty much get them anywhere on the board on T2. I'll suicide these guys on a anti tank tank (hammer head or las pred) And its a fast attack troop choice, which i am typically 0/3

chaos bikes are crap units , they cost tons of pts . cant be made troops like sm bikes , cant get ouflank , cant get scout and above all they cant take attack bikes . a unit of 3 termintators costs less has more fire power and cant be countered [unless someone metas demon armies a lot and takes mystics].

[Joshta]

If you deepstrike Obilatrators u may blow up any vehicle without a second though, but ur obilators are going to take all the basic infantry fire. IF your an infantry guy obiltorators might be a better option because you can use the nifty cover save.

 

ok , I think am not getting this . are you trying to win a game without losing any models ? huh.gif In games I play oblits and DPs die 90% [well almost always unless its a masacer] of time . I dotn care if deep striking oblits die , but I do care about poping eldar and tau skimers as fast as possible , becaue If I dont do that [and most people dont play 2250 like you or at least that how it looks to me from the untis you listed +estimated troops cost] , I will get owned hard by those. Same about LR rush builds or IG .

 

OKAY SO i totally agree with you, might sound weird but your right. I personally have had a lot of bad luck with deep striking anti tank kill squads. I seem to always roll my 2's to hit with suicide squads. Imagine my frustrations when i spend 150 points on a squad that WILL doe next turn and have done nothing. Thats why I prefer to invest in units that are more static in hits, and with all the armor i field my las preds live for every! which makes my preferred choice for anti tank as laspreds w/ vindicators or defilers.

 

I do however disagree with you about a the bike squad, i'll use them because of the organization list choice first off. Secondly, they have the speed to get right into potion almost like if they were deepstriked by the second turn, and a squad of three is cheaper then 2 obilts. lastly, you can use them to charge squads with imeltas to protect your own tanks, and because of their t5 they can usually last a long time. BUT they are a suicide squad 9/10 times. AND I FORGOT attack bikes are C:SM only.

 

Its all a preferred thing. Most units are situational, and against certain armies they will fair better then other options like that unit. I think obliterates and defilers look weird, and they don't mess well with my fluff. I don't like to use them.

[the jeske]

overcosted terminator squad you . normal termicid squad is 105 pts . 150 its 4 man squad and I dont think I seen them in games smaller , then 1.85k pts and even then it was lack of enough oblits. if you run two `150 pts this means you lost more pts then single oblit and the death/miss scater of such squads hurts the list a lot . losing a 105 pts is not a problem .

[Night Stalker]

Well, bikes are fun units to use, and they behave ok on the battlefield.

 

It's their point's cost that makes them not so competetive.

 

I vote oblits/termicide. Predator is too easy to silence.

[nurglez]

In my current 1500 point plaguefist army, my 4 melta, 2 powerfist, vindicator, daemon prince and 2 twin lascannons (yeah, i fire those often) are generally enough anti tank for my needs.

 

I must admit that oblitorators are nice, as are termicides from the few times i used em, but they dont fit my fluff (if its not a prince, PM's or a vehicle its not going in my army).

 

those 2 are def the best anti tank you can get, not only that, but termicide also opens up a few options if 1 or 2 managed to survive :P

[Joshta]

normal termicid squad is 105 pts . 150 its 4 man squad and I dont think I seen them in games smaller

 

Sorry Jeske I should have been more clear when i was talking about a 150pts squad. i was meaning to incorporate the fact that oblits OR 3m term squads are almost guaranteeing their death the turn after they deep strike, AND that I don't like trusting the one squad with to 2 dice rolls. Deepstriking TERMS or Oblits can :cuss PWN almost any tank without thinking twice IF you hit. My dice rolls are off, I roll really bad when things are important, and Amazingly well when its not important. Which is why I don't like the idea of deepstriking in a suicide squad. Fun side story, I had a 4ML space dev squad in my last game that lived all six turns but did not do a single wound to my buddies infantry SM list, However there was a time in that game where i took 7 wounds on a scout squad and i did manage to save them ALL with their 4+ Armor save! MY main point is that i would hate to put the unit out their and with only 2 dice to do its job.

 

And when I run terms in my list its normally only to get their transport. I would be insanely happy if i could take LR as transports for CSM!

 

Back on track- Have you thought about using ordnance weapons to sub in as anti tank? Ordnances have 2d6 + full str if the whole is in the right spot. They do have a decent miss chance but its not terrible, And people normally guard their tanks with other tanks or troops so even if it scatters off you could still hit something. A hit on a vindicator is str 10 which almost guarantees a pen hit if you don't scatter. AND the ordnances have other roles besides anti tank. A laspred brought to a game without opposing tanks is like a bulimic at an all u can eat buffet. U never really get your moneys worth.

[Muskie]

If you can grab cover You can pretty much get them anywhere on the board on T2. I'll suicide these guys on a anti tank tank (hammer head or las pred) And its a fast attack troop choice, which i am typically 0/3

chaos bikes are crap units , they cost tons of pts . cant be made troops like sm bikes , cant get ouflank , cant get scout and above all they cant take attack bikes . a unit of 3 termintators costs less has more fire power and cant be countered [unless someone metas demon armies a lot and takes mystics].

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noted we have no attack bikes... I mean come on, Obliterators or Attack bikes, not that I wouldn't mind super mobile multi-mealtas with no armor value...

[the jeske]

And people normally guard their tanks with other tanks or troops so even if it scatters off you could still hit something

people normally use transports , so first turn they are smoked [so hard to destroy and after that they are moving terrain . OR. they are eldar/tau and there is no way your going to catch up with them using a vindicator , while at the same time there is a big chance of vindis destroyed by those armies.

My dice rolls are off, I roll really bad when things are important, and Amazingly well when its not important.

play 100 games and then talk about rolls . if your still have sub stadard resoults then your probablly deep striking to far away from the targets.

[Zhukov]

My dice rolls are off, I roll really bad when things are important, and Amazingly well when its not important

 

And you assume that's always gonna be that case? Thats not a good way of thinking I say

[Corpse.]

Small note on bikes, since the subject came up.

 

Bike armies for loyaliss (8 pts less per bike, be a troops choice, attack bike) come with one less attack each, and bikes normally get the charge. Chaos bikes have BP+CCW, so they get that extra attack each. So if they were to hit a spot where you have to turbo boost to get. Marines lack eldar-like skimmer transports, and deep strike is an issue in tight spots. So bikes cover a weak spot already, doubly in chaos for no drop pods. More so with teleport homers (icons) that give yet more bonuses. Higher initiative, INV save, +1 attack, reroll LD, +1 toughness (already bolstering a strength).

 

So, when 1 unit of 10 chaos bikes with an icon slams into 20 loyalist bikers, the outcome gets pretty messy (if the loyalists took 2 PF sergeants, chaos loses unless they took tzeentch icon). So, having out bikes cover an ineherent weakness of most PA armies, and then be able to get bonuses that benefit from the speed more so then others can be worthwhile to pay the extra points for some people. Mostly due to the icon I have to say. Toughness 6 capable or 5+ invulnerable save capable on already spendy and perhaps game shifting models is a pretty big thing.

 

But in most cases with bikes not needing to have that bonus, we pay way too much for what they end up being used for.

 

Though being able to teleport homer in oblits/termies(termi HQ's)/daemons the whole daemonbomb thing is still around even if people still think its gone. Replace bloodletters with terminators, and you'll feel right at home again. (pay 4 pts more then old bloodletters for 2+5++*or better+icon* power weapons one strength less and no fearless/lacking instability from 3.5) we can still slam people like before. We really can.

 

So bikes have a justified cost in some cases.... So we're stuck paying 8 pts more for them.

[Joshta]

My dice rolls are off, I roll really bad when things are important, and Amazingly well when its not important

 

And you assume that's always gonna be that case? Thats not a good way of thinking I say

 

Eah, the best way to plan for future battles is to realize what happened wrong in previous battles. After so many, Suicide squads failed I have changed my opinions on them.