If you were to use a predator...

[Corpse.]

Fluff reasoning, and the drawback of silly psyker battle squads being spammed atm (maybe not where you are, but here many lists run a full 30 with tons of lascannons and heavy bolters to force 25% casualties).

 

Icon of glory cant help too much, and I suppose its a theme force. Noise marines can be ran as regular marines when he wants to, if they dont carry the sonic weapons so if he feels its a bad choice then he can change it anytime. No waste of models at least.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Yeah possessed are just for fluffyness. Might still change them.

[DevianID]

Remember the name 'Combi-Pred' as the following predator tank...

 

Autocannon, 2 sponson Las Cannons, 130 points total, no other options need apply

 

With a 48 inch range, you dont need to move to hit your target. You have 3 useful weapons, so 1 weapon destroyed does not nerf your abilities. You are cheap; cheap enough to spam 3 with little care (3 combi-preds cost less than 6 oblits that everyone runs). You deal with armor at range much better than equal points of oblits--and at range, you are more survivable than oblits as well. You also crack armor of light vehicles better than the more expensive tri-las predator point for point.

 

Versus a rhino

2 autocannon shots = 4/3 expected hits, 12/27 expected pen and 6/27 expected glance.

1 TLLC = 8/9 expected hits, 16/27, 4/27 expected glances

2 sponson Las cannons from both tanks are 4/3 expected hits and 8/9 expected pens

 

So its a 1.33 expected pen for the combi pred and 1.48 expected pen for the tri las. The tri-las gets 11% more expected pens but costs 27% more... Thus the combi-pred is most efficient ranged anti-armor in the book.

[the jeske]

Thus the combi-pred is most efficient ranged anti-armor in the book.

if the point about being able to not move and still be a good hvy support is true . also it changes nothing about the stun/shaken 130 pts LoS blocker.

[Corpse.]

People pack oblits because they can sit oblits behind regular marines and get "obscure" saves (same cover saves) while shooting at tanks the vehicles need 50%+ to be obscured so oblits have that advantage (as so do havocs+ablative wounds).

 

Predator with TLLC only, is a bit of a mix between using 2 obliterators if all you use those oblits for is lascannons and move+shoot ability. Plus not having to get your side guns into position. Three predators with TLLC = 315. Four obliterators = 300. Three 1.3 to-hit lascannons compared to four 1.0 to-hit lascannons that instant die.

 

If its dakkapred compared to plasma cannon, that is very difficult to determine different roles. Best not to be compared. Also mentioning dangerous terrain compared to always moves as if in difficult terrain.

 

Very different choices for anti tank. Lash+Oblits still ring true, and for 20 pts more you get one of the best ord's in the game vs the TLLC predator.

 

Taking in the ideal of move and shoot, and not wasting points if your preds are tank hunting and moving. Wanting that dirge caster too... (Seems to be your theme is dirge caster and tank hunting). Consider ram tactics too if you get that close...

 

Its sort of in the open how you place your predators in your army drudge, more like an open field of options to change from game to game. You might want to magnetize the guns so you can fiddle with it every other game or so. I always just ran with the tried and true pure-role predators Laspred and Dakpred.

[Joshta]

Remember the name 'Combi-Pred' as the following predator tank...

Versus a rhino

2 autocannon shots = 4/3 expected hits, 12/27 expected pen and 6/27 expected glance.

1 TLLC = 8/9 expected hits, 16/27, 4/27 expected glances

2 sponson Las cannons from both tanks are 4/3 expected hits and 8/9 expected pens

 

So its a 1.33 expected pen for the combi pred and 1.48 expected pen for the tri las. The tri-las gets 11% more expected pens but costs 27% more... Thus the combi-pred is most efficient ranged anti-armor in the book.

 

IMO showing how great an anti tank unit is against rhinos isn't the best way to dedicate the best ranged anti-armor... Hell, you might as well be doing mathhammer on how good a combi pred can kill a drop pod OR A WAR TRUKK. I don't even consider the rhino as a tank! AV 11 is DA :lol:!

 

I am not arguing that a combi-autocannon is bad, its just a slightly weaker and cheaper anti tank unit. If your going against orcs, It would be my choice. BUT if your going against land raiders or a bunch of IG tanks autocannons can't even generate glancing hits against it. I pay the extra butload of points because I need the anti tank to take out tanks not to take out transports!

 

Btw in my 2250 list, I use 1 laspred/2 Possessed Vindicators and a Land Raider(term transport)and I have never regretted the laspred.

[Joshta]

Btw in my 2250 list, I use 1 laspred/2 Possessed Vindicators and a Land Raider(term transport)and I have never regretted the laspred.

 

Whoa, I just reread my post. I DO NOT ADVISE NOT TAKING A DEFILER, i don't because of fluff reasons- and they look stupid!

[Lord Doyok]

I use 3 Dakka preds @ 345pts in 80% of my games. I like them for the fact that they are cheap and people tends to ignore them most of the time. That happened most of the time since there's 3 rhinoes (24 Berserkers), 10 raptors with 4 meltas, 5 deepstriking termies and 2 flying DPs coming at them at the same time :P.

 

The key is to provide as much threat as possible to the opponent. The opponent will leave your pred untouch and free to rain bullets on the enemy in every turn. You can never hope for them to kill so many and treat complete annihilation as simply a bonus. Their role is but to thin the enemy lines enough with high rate of fire in preparation for your charge,

 

They are better back in 4th ed when defensive weapons are still S5 and mobile. But we have to make do with what we can. Of course, oblits are better in most situation out there. But i like my pred enough. And will keep on using them. Very rarely did i lost all my preds in a game. And rarely did i lost ;).

[the jeske]

. Very rarely did i lost all my preds in a game.

thats because they are a weak unit and dont really do enough dmg to be worth killing , specially in a khorn list . its like playing with 350 pts of sub par unit that gets ignored most of the time . sure against weak armies and weak army builds it will still work[because chaos units can carry a lot of weak stuff] , but against a top list your asking to lose .

[Lord Doyok]

thats because they are a weak unit and dont really do enough dmg to be worth killing

And that's why i like them. People ignore them . As weak as they are, they killed enough for me. And the opponent (like you) will keep on underestimating and ignore them while they kill more every turn. That to me, is their strength.

 

but against a top list your asking to lose

Top list. Care to define which? I believe i have fought every possible list out there minus those from the new IG dex.

 

Preds are not as versatile / as good as oblits. That one is a known fact. But they are cheap and effective in their very specific role. There's a saying among the Skavens, "Those who lives will fight another day". With Predators, people ignore them and because of that you can always be sure that they will live and fight in the other round .

[the jeske]

but against a top list your asking to lose

you want me to list the tournament list , all of them ? well there is the semi circus eldar build , the fish of fury , the cantor build [probablly the best sm list right now] , the khan build[more situational then the pedro one , better at some match ups , but with some auto loses while pedro has no such match ups] , the chaos 2dps,2zerker/2pms,6oblits 2x3termis build , the zerker LR rush , the pm LR rush . all 1850 , all good lists .

 

christ I forgot nob bikers and the "hannan" eldar build.

[Lord Doyok]

Come on jeske, you think people are sooo nice over here? We dont need to wait for tourneys to see these kind of army. Nobz bikers are everyday specials :(

[the jeske]

Here we dont have what you call "friendlly" lists and playing with a 300 pts handicap is bad . dakka preds are anti horde with lash and your runing a zerker list that is already good against horde is waste of pts , so bad.

 

+ I dont think people actually play [looking at your list] the real nob biker list , just like for a long time I had to remember that people understand a different[aka weaker] build as nidzilla in 4th.

[Lord Doyok]

I admit, my list is not strong :rolleyes:. But somehow manage to end the game without defeat and grab some wins every couple of games.

 

But the most important thing is. I like my pred.

[Joshta]

I know we are talking about preds, but I judge my list and my skill a little different.

First Quality of your opponents really is a good judgment on you list. If your playing on beginners night and your list does really well it might not be a 100% accurate conclusion. And like wise, If your playing against really really good lists/oppenats and you lose but it wasn't that far off from a tie. If i go to beginners night, I expect to win every game. And if I don't i need to really think about how I played. If i go to the pro's night, my goal is to win is at least half. Lists are sometimes harder to judge, vrs certain people. My tank C:CSM list could get walked on by a list, but it doesn't make it a bad list nor does it mean that i played weakly.

 

I like preds....

[Blekinge]

The socalled combi predator is, in mine opinion, the best.

 

The combi loadout is autocannon and lascannon sponsons, no havoc launcher or other upgrades.

 

Primary role: Kill transports and light vehicles.

Secondary role: Kill MEQs. It is firing two shots which ignores power armour, and two more that wounds on 2+

 

It's cheap. Two lascannons will always be superior to one twinlinked lascannon. Even if it moves, it can probably still put a lascannon on a target.

 

Against light vehicles, the twinlinked lascannon is not that superior to the autocannon, as you have a real chance of making two penenetrating hits.

 

Regards

[40kChrista]

I've been using 2 Preds in my latest games, 1 Dakka and 1 all Las. They work pretty well; better than my Oblits, Defiler, or Vindi so far.

Plus it's just more tanks on the table, and that just feels right.

[DevianID]

I've been using 2 Preds in my latest games, 1 Dakka and 1 all Las. They work pretty well

 

Try using 2 combipreds instead of 1 of each specialist pred a few times... same cost, more lascannons, still good dakka. I would love to hear how the combipred fares versus 1 of each specialist pred.

[Griffin]

I like the Hybrid Pred - Lascannon Turret and Heavy bolter sponsons. AV13 is pretty decent, especially if the rest of your force includes land raiders or rhino's. Stick it in cover and snipe enemy vehicles or keep it still to hammer out some shots.

[LiveFromHell]

The Predator can do a lot for you if you use your imagination. Like most here have said it doesn't really hold up under the weight of it's own points if you plop it down in one spot for 6 turns, regardless of what weaponry it's sporting for you. Try to find a way it works conjointly with the rest of your list and you may find it to be invaluable.

 

I am currently using one with Auto Cannon turret, no sponsons, and with a havoc launcher and daemonic possession. I'm sure many will scoff without seeing it in action, and if I used it on it's own, instead of for it's very specific purpose, they would be right to scoff as it would be a futile waste of points.

 

However, I find it very handy running out in front of a Rhino full of 'Zerkers. It moves every turn, so sponsons would be wasted and possession means you have to destroy it to stop it. The twin-linked turret and the havoc launcher aren't effected too much by the drop in ballistic skill. Being able to use it to block LOS to the rhino means that my 'Zerkers get to where I want them to be very reliably, and the auto cannon can pop open Rhino's and get rid of Dreadnoughts that would otherwise be very troublesome for them. All of this and it still comes in much cheaper than putting the 'Zerkers in a Land Raider even factoring in the cost of the added Rhino. It also looks much cooler than a Land Raider as well, in my opinion of course.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The autocannon turret isn't twin linked.

[LiveFromHell]

The autocannon turret isn't twin linked.

 

 

You are quite correct. Silly me. I've been playing with it for months, so I'm not sure where that came from. :tu:

 

It doesn't change my point!