Khor Phaeron Vs Luther

[DarKHaZZ13]

luther

for on epicness

 

and he's not a traitor man

the lion was blatently the traitor

read angels of darkness man

 

*SPOILER*

 

 

 

 

the lion was blatently waiting to see which side won :lol:

[Rain]

I'm pretty sure the Chaos marine pictured in the Chaos section of the 4th edition rulebook was Kor Phaeron and he definitely looked like a normal Astartes. Also, Kor is still around and causing havoc, while Luther is in a prison run by midgets crying like a 12 year old girl at the end of Titanic. Kor Phaeron wins.

[Skirax]

Hmm, I thought that Kor Phaeron was also not a full astartes. I thought the very reason these two were paired was because neither were Full astartes. Anyways my vote goes to Luther.

Tutteman hits the nail on the head, they were both too old for Astartes elevation, so they were implanted with the organs that garuanteed their survival, rather than take a chance and kill two very competent warriors. Remember this isn't like 40k where they had strict recruitment rates, and said, Can you hold a gun/sword/butter knife? and if the answer was reletively Well, if push comes to shove, then they were recruited.

 

So yeah, both neither full Astartes, however Luther killed many great beasts on Caliban that Kor Phearon would have sopiled his pants at the sight at, so yeah, Luther.

[DCEET]

I'm voting for Luthor too, if memory serves me correct Luthor fought the Lion in combat and whilst there is no doubt the Lion held back, Kor Phaeron wouldn't have the guts to fight a Primarch held back or not imo.

[TheDarkApostle]

How much havoc did Luther create? Caliban wrecked, half of the Dark Angels Legion turned.

 

How much havoc did Kor Phaeron create? The entire Horus Heresy, plus everything traitor Legions / Dark Mechanicus involved after that.

 

I know who I want on my team.

 

TDA

[Lay]

Kor. He was trusted to wage war on his own whereas Luther was commanded to stay back and wait.

[Pyriel]

What I don't get, is that when the legions were in existence there was no 'maximum' age for recruits. They recruited from adults (it was the Codex Astartes that laid down the maximum age to make sure the gene seed remained pure). So Luther must have been rather old for the gen-hancers not to work. Just a thought.

 

 

"The varies implants cause vital changes in a Marines physique and mental state. Many of these changes are controlled by normal hormonal secritions and growth patterns. Implants may not prove effective, or even functional, if they are carried out once the recipient has reached a certain stage of natural development. It is theefore inevitable that recruits must be reasonably young( Index Astartes: Rites of Initiation)." According to a table in the article, the process can be started at age 10-14 and finsih at age 16-18.

 

A full adult has always needed a different process to become a marine due to the fact that theirs bodies are no longer growing. This process creates a marine who is smaller and weaker then a "proper" Astartes. "Decent of Angels" has a bit of a describing about the differences in the results.

 

The short story "Wolf at the Door" implies that the process can be used on an individual in their 20s (its unclear which process they were planing on using), but its more likely than not to kill the aspirant.

Some chapters still recruit from adult humans such as the black templars (damnation crusade is one of two sources but I dont remember the second).

Seems that not all have forgotten the secrets of technology used to create Astartes.

[TheDarkApostle]

"Upon his elevation to a Space Marine, Kor Phaeron became Lorgar's second in command, leading the First Company of the Word Bearers."

 

TDA

[SamaNagol]

Doesnt mean he was a FULL Astartes, sir.

[Beef]

Doesnt mean he was a FULL Astartes, sir.

 

 

Good point, As not all Space marines were not full astartes.

[Rain]

Doesnt mean he was a FULL Astartes, sir.

 

That's a really really semantic argument, by this you could say anyone who obviously is but is never explicitly called an "Astartes" might not be one, let's use some common sense folks, Space Marine = Astartes. Also remember that back then, the various gene therapies and augmentations needed to make a Marine were much more proficient, so I could see how a primarch could secure the proper tech to upgrade his spiritual adviser who must have been very valuable to a man like Lorgar.

[Imriel]

"The warriors of the Order Clamored to join their ranks and in time the entirety of the Order became Space Marines. It is believed that it was Luther who would be the first to be so enhanced... (IA:DA)." Theres never been any indication that Space Marine didn't apply to the recipient of both processes while the new Heresy books make it clear that the results of the process for turning adults into Space Marines isn't a "true" Astartes.

[Chapter Master Dave]

luther :D ^_^

[SamaNagol]

Doesnt mean he was a FULL Astartes, sir.

 

That's a really really semantic argument, by this you could say anyone who obviously is but is never explicitly called an "Astartes" might not be one, let's use some common sense folks, Space Marine = Astartes. Also remember that back then, the various gene therapies and augmentations needed to make a Marine were much more proficient, so I could see how a primarch could secure the proper tech to upgrade his spiritual adviser who must have been very valuable to a man like Lorgar.

 

Hardly. It was made very clear that fully grown adults were not able to receive the same enhancements as the younger initiates. The new DA book goes into it in detail from the preview sample, and I see no reason why Luther would be any different from any of the other 'spiritual advisers' and right hand men of any of the other Primarchs. Same happened for Leman Russ and his honour guard.

 

They are still much, much, much more than men. But not full Astartes.

[Darkapostle222]

Kor Phaernon, and no its not because I'm a Word Bearer :lol:

 

1: He was the first Chaos Marine

 

2: He turned Lorgar (blessed be his name)

 

3: He started the chain of events that would create the whole Horus Heresy

 

Luther

 

1: Turned half of the Dark Angels

 

2: Destroyed Caliban

 

3: Beat the sh** out of Jonson

 

While that is pretty epic, it is no where near as cool as Kor's deeds!

[Jiri the Corrupted]

Though Luther may have been capable of trading blows with his Primarch and has shown half a Legion the Truth, Kor Phaeron led the attack on the Ultra Marines all by himself and brought a Primarch and his Legion under the sway of the Dark Gods.

 

Therefor Kor Phaeron is awesomer. He also managed to survive to this day during 10.000 years of war and is still in charge of parts of the WB legion.

[Astalon]

I still don't understand how a not even full astartes luthor could beat a primarch?

[Imriel]

I still don't understand how a not even full astartes luthor could beat a primarch?

 

Same way an Imperial Governor was able to take on Horus, they were enhanced by chaos.