PAGK Equipment

[Inquisitor Apropos]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I'm looking less for clarification and more for debate.

 

The general consensus on Power Armored Grey Knights is that when they take a special weapon, they give up both their Stormbolter and their Nemesis Force Weapon.

 

Why is this the case?

 

WYSIWYG is losing more and more ground as the game continues.

No other army gives up ALL of its equipment when taking an upgrade weapon.

 

Looking to other specifically to Space Marine as the closest analogue, heavy/special weapons are 'replace bolter with...' and I'm fairly certain Devastators also give up their bolt pistol to take that Lascannon.

Considering that I would lose True Grit and its permanent 2 attacks by giving up the Stormbolter, is it too much to ask to let me keep my ST 6?

If I'm missing a rule, please feel free to set me straight, but this has always bothered me.

[number6]

You're not missing anything. PAGKs give up their NFW and storm bolter -- and therefor STR 6 attacks and True Grit -- when taking an incinerator or psycannon. The rules verbiage is quite clear on this, the model "exchanges" their default equipment -- and therefor all the rules that go along with that equipment -- when taking an incinerator or psycannon.

 

And believe me, you are far from the first person to think that paying that many points to make this exchange is "unfair". (Beyond giving up native GK abilities that set them apart from the lesser Astartes, you are potentially giving up more GK models that could have been bought with those points, so it's a double whammy!) Nevertheless, them's the breaks.

 

This is also why most GK aficionados take psycannons only on "dedicated" fire support teams. Typically a Troops unit that will be slotted for home objective defense. (A smaller number of GK players will take 5-6 models and a pair of psycannons on a FAGK unit for deep-strike anti-armour duty.)

 

This is also why most GK aficionados take incinerators only on "dedicated" assault teams in land raiders. That's about the only way you can guarantee a decent return on the investment.

 

Thus, the majority of foot-bound GK units should be kept 100% vanilla, no upgrades except, perhaps, for limited wargear purchases on the Justicar. (E.g., targeter, frags, melta bombs, unguents of warding.) Such units take maximum advantage of the points being spent and the huge breadth of combat capabilities that the vanilla GK possesses.

[Secondwind]

I honestly dont think there is very much debate on this subject as it just links back into the "is a psycannon/incinerator worth loosing weapons/truegrit to" topics.

 

Anyhow ruleswise:

 

-PAGK entry page 29 of Codex: Demonhunters clearly says the following:

"Weapons: Stormbolter and Nemesis force weapon" Then in the next it says "Up to two models may exchange their weapons for a paycannon "..... blah blah.

 

You thus have lost both weapons and replaced them, you loose your str 6 as it is a bonus for using a nemesis force weapon which you are not carrying anymore. You loose the extra attack as you have lost both the stormbolter and nemesis force weapon.

 

Comparing them to any other marine or race you will find almost everyone gets the same result in that their heavy weapon guy will tend to revert to base profile attacks + any bonus for assaulting at most. Though tactical heavy weapon marines can shoot their pistol instead if they move which is a perk. But it is only 1 shot when within 12 inches of an enemy and I think we can do better with incinerators / psycannons at that range. If we were to get similar with our stormbolters it might be useful but simply said the fluff and current designs of the weapons would make it hard to do.

 

P.S. WYSIWYG is not loosing anyground anywhere as that is a player decision as it is he who is making his models. With the expansion of the counts as rule has allowed more creativity and better displaying of weapons not to mention alot of tournaments really try to enforce WYSIWYG with clear and understandable counts as.

[jeffersonian000]

One way to look at it is that any PAGK that takes a special weapon is exchanging their S4 ranged and S6 close combat attacks with True Grit for a S6 ranged (or template) and S4 close combat attacks with a bonus attack when charging. Of course, the selection comes at a cost.

 

SJ