Why do people hate us?

[twistinthunder]

i agree with OMG and minigun762 on this having everybody playing the same tactics against all armies is pointless since all armies should have their weaknesses and their strength. they should play differently. im sick of the fact that space marines players using the same tactics no matter what chapter, chapters fight differently,if your gonna use the same tactics as most other people, paint your army as ultrasmurfs.

 

dont be hating on the daemons cause their basic troops have something yours dont.

[Hellios]

I find Mechanized eldar works pretty well against daemons. Can be tricky depending on how they deepstrike but normally I can out run them and have enough fire power to take down down a few MC's a turn and while mounted little daemons are almost not a threat. I've also had Dark Eldar work pretty well except against Tzeentch which ruins my paper planes :'(

 

Not that this helps MEQ XD

[minigun762]

I find Mechanized eldar works pretty well against daemons. Can be tricky depending on how they deepstrike but normally I can out run them and have enough fire power to take down down a few MC's a turn and while mounted little daemons are almost not a threat. I've also had Dark Eldar work pretty well except against Tzeentch which ruins my paper planes :'(

 

Not that this helps MEQ XD

 

Well to a degree it does. Daemons have serious problems with mechanized lists, especially Land Raiders. Against them they're are relying on Daemon Princes, Soulgrinders (in HtH) and Greater Daemons (and to a lesser extent Screamers).

Thats a fairly short list and they all involve catching it in close combat.

 

I've mentioned this before, what people do against Slugga Boyz is hole up in their Rhino pumping out dakka. The Boyz kill the Rhino (in their assault phase) so your infantry is ok unless they have multiple units there. Next turn the Orks should all be surrounding your dead Transport, so you lay out some Rapid Fire and Flamers and thin the horde considerably.

Same logic should apply to Bloodletters and other daemon troops.

[billga]

Coming from a marine player, these are my observations:

-First, Demon armies basically throw out everything that most players are used to (tactics, deployment, etc....)

-Second, a LOT of the games are greatly effected by the role of a single die. There is nothing worse than spending 20-30 min getting out terrain and putting out figs to then have the outcome effected because someone gets the wrong half of their all or nothing list deploying first.

-Third, as with all new toys, there are more than a few kids who have no idea what they are doing playing with a lot of expensive figs bought with parents money (this is currently the same thing going on with Mech Vet IG).

-Lastly, they are tough to beat. During 3rd Ed, I had my 'Nids, BA, and DEFINITELY Iron Warriors banned for non tournament play. People don't like taking on armies that win 70%+.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[eyescrossed]

-Lastly, they are tough to beat.

You must be playing wrong.

[Hellios]

-Lastly, they are tough to beat.

You must be playing wrong.

 

Unless your saying their are no good (or as Jeske calls them tier 1) lists for daemons (and lets exclude their deployment going really bad, because it can go really well as well.) then shouldn't daemons as with any other top army be tough if played well (then people may also not be using top lists for tournament play).

[incinerator950]

I stopped caring about tier lists when a BL player with 2 lash princes and 4 rhinos with 10 Chaos marines, powerfists and melta guns, and Vindicator who played for over 6 years lost to a guy in a tournament with 1 of each cult choices, a Tzeentch Sorc in terminator armor, a greater demon, 3 Obliterators which he didn't use to their full effect besides targeting Rhinos, which he only immobilized 1 and maybe destroyed another, and 1 rhino who was at his first tournament and only played 8 months. I know it's not related to Demons, but seriously this is hilarious.

[eyescrossed]

-Lastly, they are tough to beat.

You must be playing wrong.

 

Unless your saying their are no good (or as Jeske calls them tier 1) lists for daemons (and lets exclude their deployment going really bad, because it can go really well as well.) then shouldn't daemons as with any other top army be tough if played well (then people may also not be using top lists for tournament play).

Sorry, I worded it wrong. I'm quite sick, so what I type may be a little... Erm... Strange.

 

What I meant was, Daemons aren't tough unless the player has ****loads of Bloodcrushers or Fiends. All armies are tough if their best units are spammed.

[antique_nova]

which could be essentially all of them....an army of grots..........the best because you can't kill them all :cuss.

Or just spam marines..marines...marines andddddd more marines <_<. Ok so i exaggerrated alittle........okay*hands up* alot then ^^.

thanks

antique_nova

[minigun762]

What I meant was, Daemons aren't tough unless the player has ****loads of Bloodcrushers or Fiends. All armies are tough if their best units are spammed.

 

I'm not sure, I feel that Daemons have more viable lists then CSMs do.

Tally lists are certianly viable if done well.

Daemonzilla is also viable.

A balanced list can be harder to make and play well, but it is dangerous in the right hands.

 

Horde is probably the only one thats not hugely viable simply because of how expensive the troops are.

[billga]

As far as the tough to beat thing goes, I was talking about 24x Bloodkrusher (Juggy lists as I call 'em) or the 5 MC lists. Those two lists, at least where I play, were the lists causing all of the problems with non-tourney gamers.

-Billga

[Black Talon]

billga i don't blame you for saying those lists are hard. 5 Mcs would be nothing next to the Nid 8 mc list, but all of ours DS and fly :lol: Literally in your face turn 2, and24 crushers, whack whoever plays that for me, hate that list... trhose things won't die, even to my own daemons!

[billga]

Yes, 5 MC is much tougher than Nidzilla. As a 'Nid player though, I can't help but think how much fun 5 flying tyrants could be ;)

[IronWinds]

I'm not sure, I feel that Daemons have more viable lists then CSMs do.

 

That's not hard to do.

 

 

I've actually yet to play a demon list. Only guy at my club that has one always ends up playing his CSM in team games with me. I don't see them as a huge issue. They land, you shoot them, survivors assault, repeat.

 

And I don't think people hate them just because they change the tactics, but they also force their enemy into a reactionary position. I hate being in that position myself, I prefer for the other guy to have to counter my movements. I'm already thinking of tactics that would cause them some problems.

[Shiro the Betrayed]

I was wondering, as there are no deamon players in my area to test this on, how do deamons fare against a pure 'stealer list?

[DuskRaider]

Fairly well, in my experience. Rending is pretty much nullified by the Inv Saves, and if they don't take the squad or creature they're attacking down first, the 'Stealers are pretty much doomed. Bloodletters fair well against Genestealers.

[Dammeron]

I rather like the new daemon codex; having played against the army several times with my Eldar force, I find the armies exceptionally interesting, dynamic, characterful and challenging. Unlike playing with or against chaos space marines (which are now reduced to a bad joke at best),I've found battles involving daemons to be extremely fraught, the situation dramatically shifting from one turn to another with the result being some truly epic confrontations (there's nothing better than an Avatar vs. a Keeper of Secrets or Bloodthirster smack down).

 

I think alot of the hate that's levelled against the army derives from two key positions: one, the standard resistence against anythying new, and the daemons are VERY new in terms of the way they play. There really is nothing quite like them in 40K, and that upsets alot of people. They don't deploy like other armies, they aren't structured like other armies, they don't play like other armies, thus tactics and army lists must be adapted when facing them. tried and tested methods don't work as well.

 

Secondly, the ethos of negativity into which the army list was released. Most are keenly aware by now that GW's recent decisions concerning Chaos in general are not popular; it was a drastic mistake to so completely seperate Daemons from Chaos Space Marines (that's not to say that the army list doesn't have a place; it most certainly does, just not at the expense of so many established armies), and the lack of attention paid to the latter's codex makes it seem that GW may have deliberately ham strung it so as to urge chaos players towards the newer, shinier Daemon codex with its sparkly, well conceived rules, fantastic conversion potential and swathe of new miniatures. Hence daemons come in for more scorn than they otherwise would if the army list had been released alongside a Chaos Space Marine equivalent to which equal attention had been paid.

[Retalitus]

Been reading this thread for a while now, so thought it was about time I threw in my views. I've been playing Daemons for a couple of months now, and I'm not aware that any of my opponents have any issues with them. As many people have already said, it comes down to adjusting your tactics to face them, and playing a great deal more reactively. I can understand how some people dislike this, but frankly the folks I play with quite enjoy facing something totally different, and I think we should all encourage such diversity in 40k. Sure, they may not be as competitive due to their random nature, but I think they're a lot of fun to play and my opponents seem to relish taking them on.