The Chaos Tactica: Iron Warriors

[Vilicate]

I suppose that i should probably add to this, adding another voice from the Board of Warmasters:

 

 

Bikers:

I've never used them, but after talking to Crovan, i realized one potential use for the little buggers: the truly mobile havoc squad. You can have up to 3 special weapons per squad (on the champ, and the 2 allowed). I think this, combined with the bike's speed, makes them either ideal tank hunters (3 meltas) or heavy infantry busters (3 plasmagunz). Just run them up, shoot your prefered target, and then charge into something juicy and weak. Like guard or orks. They need a 6 to wound anyway.

 

Raptors:

Now i've used these guys before, and i think that Crovan and Epicurus have explained this well enough. Oh yeah, but i think that 4 flamers (combi on the champ) would make a really nasty squad.

 

So that's my views on Fast Attack with inspiration from the IW.

[wargame insomniac]

First up -cool banners- where do the apprentice warsmiths go to sign up for these funky items?

 

At the moment I am playing undivided rather than pure IW as I don't have enough IW stuff to do 1,500 points army. So I have borrowed a squad of Raptors and have used them in 3 battles so far:

 

First game the Raptors got double teamed by a charge from both Dark Eldar Incubi and Wyches, and so did n't have a chance to do much.

 

Second game was against Imperial Guard and they won the game for me single handed. After 3 turns I had been pummelled by IG firepower and my whole army was on the ropes. Once the Raptors got into close combat though, the tide turned. They basically chewed through 2 ENTIRE IG platoons, killing or routing 9 IG squads by themselves. Some turns they killed two IG squads, one each in both mine & also IG close combat phases. The combination of Hit and Run, Daemonic Visage and Furious Charge was awesome!

 

Third game was last night against loyalist SM (vanilla). They charged a SM assault squad, but with my AC missing or failing to wound with his pair Lightning Claws, the other Raptors failed to penetrate their opponents 3+ save. After another turn of failing to hurt the SM assault squad, I used Hit and Run to jump out of combat and charge a nearby SM devastator squad. Again they failed to get enough hits in to hurt SM, and were wiped out next turn when SM Chaplain charged in. Net effect after 4 close combat phases was 2 dead SM at the cost of all 6 Raptors!! :wacko:

 

I think I need to find points to give the Raptors AC Spiky Bitz and/or Daemonic Mutation to get the most out of him. I shall just have to work what I can drop from other squads.

 

Have n't used CSM bikers yet- they seem attractive under new TAR for the reasons that thers have already mentioned in preious posts. To me they fit in better with what I wasnt from IW army than Raptors. However if I am honest, I may find it difficult to drop the Raptors now I know how effective they can be.

 

Cheers

 

James

[Vilicate]

Thanks for the comments about fast attack guys....does anyone have possibly anything else to say about Undivided Fast Attack with the restrictions that Iron Warriors have? Anyone?

[ddtedie]

Sorry, but I don't have any FA slots in my IW army. I am waiting for the Hvy Spt topic to launch into my accolades of the basilisk and the vindicator. :wacko:

[Vilicate]

Okay, that's enough fast attack. I was hoping to have some more info on it, but i guess most people play like me and get rid of fast attack most times.

 

 

Time for that most used, and probably most discussed of Iron Warriors slots, Heavy Support! Post away, Warsmiths!

[ddtedie]

Whoo-Hoo! Heavy Support! I think it is probably the main reason I became a warsmith. Of course, as previously mentioned, I like to hammer away at opponents with a dual ordanance attack. I use a basilisk and a vindicator in my army, backed with two dreads. One dread with Plasma cannon, one with twin linked lascannons and a havock missile launcher. Against assualt based armies, I do fairly well blasting away at them as they try to rhino rush, or scamper towards my lines. I try to use the basilisk to target large units of troops, or light vehicles, as I found that it works best when tearing through things like rhinos or razorbacks, opposed to the land raider or front armor on predators. The dice are more friendly to me with the rolling of two D6 on those vehicles than on the tougher ones. I try to line up shots for LR's and Preads with the vindicator, although it will tear swathes through dismounts just as easily. But I can't say enough about the basislisk. This is the third army that I have used one in, as I also run IG and have one for my Orks.

As to the dreads, I still like them in the army, just for the fact that they will draw some of the fire power away from my troops. I have quickly learned to deploy all my forces safely out of line of sight of these guys though, as I have had some bad experiences with fire frenzy, killing either my troopers, or in one bad instance, blowing away an obliterator. However, when they blood frenzy close to troops, they will usually put down a squad of whatever they have charged. In all, I don't expect my heavy support to last more than turn 3 or 4, however, that gives my quarter takers enough time to get into place to secure a foot hold and either take or contest, or to get them into the enemy deployment zone. To me, the heavy support is almost my center of gravity for the army, for when it doesn't do well, my army doesn't do well. Most times though, they will rock my opponents world, and thus keeping me a dedicated follower to the ways of the Iron Warriors.

[Epicurus]

EPICURUS' GUIDE TO IRON WARRIOR HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Our heavy support rocks. Just dont go overboard.

 

Epicurus.

 

Shameless link to armylist... comment if you will :wacko:

[Vilicate]

Okay, this is the pre-cursor post to my review of the rest of the Iron Warriors heavy support:

 

Heavy Support Feng-shui and You

 

Understanding the Forces at work:

This is the key to using our heavy support. However, if you place you heavy support out of line with the rest of your army, you can conflicting lines of Chi. Now, the Chi flow in the iron warriors army is particurally important, as the army needs the Chi to help it's shooting power, by letting you roll more 6's to hit and wound and whatnot. So, now you all know how important Chi is shooting phase, we can talk about how to know where to place your Big Guns to optimize Chi flow.

 

 

Placement of the Big Gunz:

The most important Life Aspirations for the Iron Warriors is either the Li or the Ch'ien tabs of the Pa Kua. The Li tab describes "fire" as....

 

Okay, i wrote way too much of this before i couldn't find anymore free info on the web...more tonight or tomarrow on a real analysis of the Iron Warriors Heavy Support.

[Prot]

You'd think this would be an easy category but it isn't (for me).

 

The Basilisk is a no brainer. People tend to get negative about it's long indirect fire minimum of 3 feet. Not me, I have no problem moving it out of cover to go to town on lesser foes like 'nids or Orks.

 

My other choices are much more complicated. Lately, my most successfull list is very static. There's not much movement except for two squads of troops. That means my heavy slots have to be more flexible (also, using Obliterators gives you a lot more flexibility when selecing heavies IMHO).

 

So, right now I pick 3 heavies (not wanting to fill up the slots) and they all have a distinct role:

 

- Pred with twin las and side mounted heavy bolters. (Great for moving out of cover and taking down an enemy vehicle or mowing down troops).

 

- Vanilla Dread. This has a dual purpose, it's cheap and assaulty and it *always* gets deployed first, very high in my deployment area. This is to push back my opponent's deployment as far away from me as possible.(yes, this usually means instant death for the toaster from hell, but hey, he loves it)

 

- Basilisk for the obvious ordnace sweetness, long distance poundings.

 

That's what I do right now, it works for my current list really well although a defiler tempts from time to time but I wonder its worth in points (compared to a basi).

[Epicurus]

BASILISK

 

There is no reason for an Iron Warrior to not use this baddy. for 125 points, its a steal for the destruction it unleashes. Hide it in the back and let the good times roll.

 

PREDATOR

 

I love these tanks. I almost always end up using them for anti-infantry. Slap on an autocannon, 2 heavy bolters, and a havoc launcher then throw that bad boy into some cover and you'll be dealing death for a good long time. Even against marines, the sheer volume of fire it lays down whipes out squads.

 

The other configuration I use is an autocannon turret and side sponson lascannons. The 2 shots from the auto cannon make the tank more effective against light armor and troops, while the lascannons help take down the big stuff.

 

CHAOS LAND RAIDER

 

Er. I have mixed feelings abou this one. Its definately got saying power, and with a squad of terminators inside, its lethal. But its roles get confused. If used as a tank, its transport option is wasted. if used as a transport, more often than not, its lascannons dont fire as much as you would like. I'd only take one in high point games... and even then only once in a while.

 

HAVOC SQUADS

 

I really like these guys. They have staying power, they are can be anti-armor, anti-infantry, or both. right now, my favorite is 4 autocannons and tank hunter. Gross.

 

DEFILER

 

With access to the basilisk, the defiler doesnt look as nice. Its 50 points more if you want it to do the same job. Only include one if you really want to rain down a lot of artillery shells or just plain love the model.

 

CHAOS DREADNOUGHT

 

These guys are awesome. Dead stompy, and dead shooty. They can be a mobile firebase or close combat monsters.

 

Right now I've been toying with the idea of a dread with a missile launcher, plasma cannon, and havoc missile launcher and praying for fire frenzy :wacko: Thats 8 templates a turn. Take that, pointy eared freaks!

 

VINDICATOR

 

These things look like they could be a good time. I havent had much experience with them, though. They would require some careful deployment and strategic movement.

[Crovan]

Well, time for me to file in I guess.

 

I covered this a bit in the big article I posted above, but I will go over it again here.

 

Basilisk: As it has been stated, these things can be really nasty, especially if you get good at guessing ranges (my range guessing is infamous at the local store ^_^ ). The only thing I could see this being marginally less useful against is something like the Deathwing :). I always give it indirect fire.

 

Vindicator: I'm not as big on these. Don't get me wrong, they are just plain lethal in the right hands, but I have never taken to using them much. What these guys are good for is holding choke points. Slap them in some cover and rain death on one particular spot on the field.

 

Predator: I gave up on my pred. It just stopped cutting the mustard. The best configs IMHO are 3 lascannons and AC w/ 2HBs. The key here is that both of the more effective configs are quite specialised.

 

Land Raider: I stopped taking mine. Actually, it may be getting a new bone white paintjob and joining my Deathwing. These things just typically aren't worth the points in games under 2500 or so, especially when you already have such incredible firepower.

 

Dreadnought: These guys are pretty versatile in that they can lay down some nice firepower, but are also quite effective at HtH. The problem here is typically that they can sometimes have trouble making their points back. I usually armed mine with a PC, and though effective, he didn't do much but play catch with my opponents' heavy weapons troops.

 

Defiler: I really like these. I typically take one of these and a Bassie. While it has shorter range and lower S than the Earthshaker, it is more durable than the Basilisk, and is also much more capable of defending itself at close range (AC and HF do baaaad things to scouts). Also, due to the increased durability, you don't feel as leary about letting it go direct fire.

 

Havocs: These guys are my holy hand grenade. I took a six man squad the other day with 4 Autocannons and Tank Hunter......Oh....my....God. They killed a Dread, a squad of stormtroopers, two GK Termies, and a Chimera toting an Inquisitor. I also took a squad with 4MLs and TH. They took down a LR and some standard GKs. Both squads made up their points and then some. In the next game, the missile launchers dropped my friend's pred on turn one. Love your havocs. Love theeeem!

[Vilicate]

So thus comes the time that i contribute (been busy packing up to go back home) to this most important and sections for the Iron Warriors:

 

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

 

Basilisk:

Probably the most infamous of our weapons. Also the best, cheapest, most used heavy support and should play a part in almost any Iron Warriors Army. What can i say? Every time that i've played, the Basilsk has made it's points back every single time, either by kills or attracting un-warrented attention to itself. Once you get range guessing down: The most useful piece of equipment in the army, bar none (except maybe obliterators).

 

Vindicator:

Never used one. It doesn't fit my style. I like to shoot at the longest range possible. When the enemy gets within 24", i rely on bolters and powerful close combat to see him off. I CAN see, however, this being a great tool not to fire, but to scare your opponent off of a weak flank.

 

Predator:

Again, i never liked this tank. I can't see the place for light tanks, and the only two times that i've used one, they're failed my miserably. Just not worth it to me. I'd rather have dreads and havocs, thank you very much.

 

Defilers:

Used it a couple of times, and i've found that it's overkill to have more than one pie-plate. If i didn't use the earthshaker, i'd probably use one of these. I wish that we could take a siege mortor.... I think that this vehicle is better at making a front-row appearance in your battle line than the basilisk. The fact that it has attacks is okay...but it also means that you can tie it up in close combat.

 

Dreadnoughts:

The third best choice for heavy support. Surprisingly enough, i run a 2 CCW one, with a havoc launcher and possession. THis makes a sick CC beast, and gives me some more anti-swarm firepower. It either holds the center of my line, or i place it as far forward as i can, to make the enemy take a longer time to get closer to me. I think that a second one with a plasma cannon might make an appearance in my next army list.

 

 

 

Havocs:

The next best choice after the basilisk. I play with 4 HB havocs (it's hella cheap) and they work wonders against swarm armies(where'd that squiggoth go? where'd those wild boyz go?). I think that if i put another squad in, they will have 4 ML's and tank hunter. This makes them either lascannons or some sick templates against anything else. I love havocs with my entire body. Even my p33-p33.

 

 

SO, in conclusion:

 

1. Basilisk

2. Havocs

3. Dreadnought

4. Vindicator

5. Defiler

6 Predator

 

BTW, i won't be on for a couple days maybe,because of moving, so keep up the good work and post....next topic will be general tactics.

[Vilicate]

Alright, Iron Warriors general tactics...i know that this thread has not been active for awhile, but i'd still love to hear from you guys who've been lurkin' around out there. Basic synopsis of the general tactics:

 

-how do you deploy

-favorite general combos

-some really general tactics

 

 

If all goes well, i'd like to start tactics against specific races next, but if you guys just want to start that now, just feel free.

[Dark Leviathan]

Well my Iron warriors have only been in two engagements so far after only recently fallen to Chaos from the greater good. I deploy my Basilisk as far from the enemy as possible, prefably behind some cover because of its low armour even with mutated hull. My Daemon Prince deploys with my bolt pistol and close combst weapon marine squad to give them a bit of a hand in dealing with the enemy up close. My other squad with bolters deploy if available in some cover ready to shoot down any incoming foes. I also have my Lieutenant who usually goes around on his own causing havoc, at least until I get some Raptors to put him in. Last my Predator which I have not used yet but should give me some much needed anti tank fire for taking down those pesky Leman Russ.

[ddtedie]

How I deploy usually depends upon the mission. In quarter missions, if I win the roll, I will usually place my Vindicator or a dread smack down near the center, forcing my opponent back. If he goes first, then I place my basilisk as far back and in cover as possible. Then I will layer the other units around those choices. I like to keep the dreads off to the flanks, and in front of my CSM squads in the event I roll a fire frenzy and they are the only thing visible. I have had a dread light up a squad and some oblits in the past, so now they all stay well behind the dreads until the dread is sure to draw line of sight to the enemy. I keep my BP/CC armed CSM sqd in a rhino, with my Warsmith or LT and await for any breaks through my line, as I tend to set up pickets where I can fire with as much as possible for the first couple of turns. If I do have to move squads around, I move my squads with the heavy bolters so I can keep up the heavy fire, or if facing a swarm type army, I keep the heavy bolters stationary and move the lascannon teams. My basic plan is usually the same, let the ordanance work it's magic for a turn or two, as I don't expect either vehicle to make it past the second turn, and steadily advance my terms and oblits behind the dreads towards my opponent, all the while letting him make the most of movement. So far, against just about every opponent with the exception of Tau, this has worked well. Against BA, I have owned them every time.

[Prot]

I couldn't guess how many games I've played with the Iron Warriors but I can tell you that my strategy keeps changing. That's one of the things I love about the IW flexibility.

 

While some may argue about which Chaos Legion does the best job of hth slaughter, I have no doubt that IW is the shootiest (yes IMHO, more so than EC).

 

That's how I've been playing my Iron Warriors, very shootastic. :lol: Even my troops are tooled for infiltrating shootness. So with that in mind, with this current strategy, I *always* deploy according to my enemy. I've changed my way of thinking when it comes to the scenario... messengers, breakout, whatever- it doesn't matter, and that works best for me.

 

For instance, I keep far away from short sighted armies like Eldar and Tau because typically, I can outrange them. I also stay deep from the likes of Khorne and Black Templar. Most often against IG I will deploy quite close because even a 6 man lascannon squad can be a problem in hth for IG...But it can depend on my oppent's list too (not always the army).

 

I realize how 'on the fence' this seems but it goes back to the immense strategy choices we have- a lot depends on the list we make. I watch some Khorne friends and Black Templar players playing the -same- style constantly, thankfully we're not stuck in a rut like that.

[Vilicate]

Thanks for the comments guys.

 

Now, i play a lot like prot. Very rarely do i ever attempt to conform to one method of deployment. Generally, however, i prefer to attack from as large of a distance as possible, as Iron Warriors are the masters of ranged combat, and i like to get as much shooting as possible. On cleanse, the mission that i seem to play the most, i usually deploy a CC unit at the center of the board if i win. This is either my dreadnought, my terminators, or one of my rhino squads. This limits deployment for the other side, and make shooting them up less of a problem. So i guess that i play a little different than prot, as i keep the mission goals foremost in mind whenever i play. Besides, the enemy will get blown to bits by artillery after the battle anyway. :P

 

Always deploy the basilisk behind cover and you're good to go with that. Shield those havoc squads and let rip!

[Dante96]

Hello all:

 

I also like to take 3 heavy support slots...the pred...for some reason just can't let him go...with all las. The Bassi of course with indirect fire and parasitic possetion...because everyone seems to rush straight at the damn thing first (how could i blame them though). And lastly...my newest edition to my army...the dread...with plasma cannon, dread ccw, and heavy flamer. I just deep strike the toaster asap and let 'em blast away with the old deep strike termi's sandwhiching from the other end of the table.

[manmangler]

Hmm

 

i use Heavies like this

 

Havocs

5 marines Inc 4 Missilelauncher with tankhunter

Everybody may know why :P

 

Havocs

5 marines Inc 2 autocannon and 2 Heavybolter with tanhunter

Can soaked numerous troops like Orcs or give good fire against Rhino rush or Light Vechiles. :wub:

 

Vindicator

Keep some areas clear for enemies. Nobody is so big fool that but units Vindicator range. In cityfight i love it.

 

Basilisk

Rain death from above. Make sure that oppoment dont sit and shoot. I tend keep Raptor near basilisk because oppoment usually try silence Basilisk with assault troops.

 

For general tactics and deployment

 

Keep one unit with CC-weapons and rhino for counterattack or strike when enemy is weakended

 

One raptors unit backup for basilisk and Havocs, enemy Assault troop may targeted your fragile heavies

 

Keep Oblies always at least two unit even if you have two of them. You can shoot different targets.

 

Always one havoc squad that can shoot Troops or tanks (Missilelaunchers).

 

Use Vindicator to make Deadzone where enemy is unwise to go.

 

Use normal squad at least 8 marines. I know that many prefer use 5 marines squads but they are peacemeal for enemy assault troops. I use two havocs squad so i have 8 Heavyweapons already and no need to do lot of 5 marines squads.

 

If you take Land Raider, take it to Transport option rather than Heavy.

 

I have seen many times horror my oppoments face when they realise that IW army have assault troops. So when enemy is weakended throw your Backup squad with rhino and Havocs at enemy weakspot. And if you have Aspiring Champion with CC-weapons and big squad you can throw normal troop alike assaulting.

[Warsmith Baracuss]

personally i take an assault squad of 6 IW with chain swords an bolt pistols, and back them up with my flying daemon prince.

 

I also take 3 obliterators, and 3 squads of 9 warriors.

 

then I throw a vindicator in the middle of the table and protect it with mutated hull, and smoke launchers.

 

plus i have a dread walking around cleaning up the field and to top it off i pick off the competiton tanks with my tank hunter havoks (3 missle launchers) hehe.

 

I can post a full list if anyone wants to see it.

[Warsmith Baracuss]

THIS IS MY ARMY LIST: IT IS OPEN FOR THRASHING IF YOU LIKE.

 

HQ

DAEMON PRINCE

Daemon Armour, Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Resiliance, Furious Charge, Dread Axe, Bionics.

170 Pts.

 

ELITES

3 Obliterators.

210 Pts.

 

TROOPS

9 Chaos Space Marines, 7 Bolters, Plasma Pistol, Heavy Bolter, Mark of Chaos Undivided, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon.

173 Pts.

 

9 Chaos Space Marines, 7 Bolters, Plasma Pistol, Heavy Bolter, Mark of Chaos Undivided , Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon, Bionics.

178 Pts.

 

9 Chaos Space Marines, 7 Bolters, Plasma Pistol, Heavy Bolter, Mark of Chaos Undivided.

150 Pts.

 

6 Chaos Space Marines, 3 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 2 Meltaguns, Aspiring Champion, Power Fist, Combi-Melta.

142 Pts.

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

6 Chaos Space Marine Havocs, 2 Bolters, 3 Missle Launchers, Autocannon, Tank Hunter Skill.

182 Pts.

 

Chaos Dreadnought, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Mutated Hull, Smoke Launcher.

138 Pts.

 

Chaos Vindicator, Mutated Hull, Smoke Launcher.

153 Pts.

 

TOTAL: 1496 Pts.

 

I know 4 points but where?

Comments please!

 

EDIT: Removed individual points costs from your list. This was a very dull way for me to be spending my time. READ THE RULES PLEASE!

[ddtedie]

Only thing I can think of for those four points, would be frags for the DP, or maybe a searchlight. Not a great help I know, but then it is only four points. When I hit a wall like that, I usually will just leave out the 4 points, but that is just me.

 

Now, just because I don't want the tactica to die down, let me throw out a question for my fellow IW players:

 

What army gives your IW the toughest time when you play? For me, I would have to say Nids or Tau. These are the only two armies that I have fallen short to. I lost against the Tau in a cityfight mission, the Gauntlet, where I had to get half my army across the table and out the exit point. I have only one rhino in my IW army, and then a vindicator and a basilisk (we were playing 2K for points) and he was able to pop the rhino fairly quickly, making me hoof it across the table. And of course, the heavier Tau weaponry was picking off my guys fairly easily, and my base of fire squads were either hitting and failing to wound/penetrate, or missing all togehter.

My loss to the Nids was a Rescue mission, and his bugs picked up the objective and started to beat feet towards the his table edge, while my valiant IW were tied up stomping his termaguants. My oblits were sucked into that hand to hand, and by the time I finally got rid of the little bugs, the big ones were there to pound away on the Oblits and the squad that had moved in to support them. It was a close game, and a good one, but both opponents showed me where my weaknesses were in my army. I like my IW the way they are, and do not plan on changing them in any way, as I have had good success with them. However, it has made me think of different ways to take on these two different armies. I have yet to play the "star cannon of doom" army, or any DE/Orks, ect. So, I throw out the question again: which army gives your IW the hardest time?

[fdsajkl]

Eldar armies are really really annoying..

 

anything that stands in LOS without being a vehicle is pretty much paste.

 

I have started resorting to using min squads mounted in rhinos then having unit shoot from the top hatch. The rhinos die eventually but usually survive better than having a squad on its own. Reapers are just plain lethal. Having a basi or defiler will also force them to come to you and vindis mixed in amongst a pool of rhinos is just plain mean.... Enemy didn't notice it one time.... he'll never forget it again.....

[tsewell]

I find that DA are really annoying, all that plasma, howeva my basi usually takes care of them.

What is really effective though is 2 large havoc squads armed as per their enemy, ie: loyalists=8 missile launchers. to back this up i stick a basilisk w/ indirect fire behind a big piece of terrain. Then when your enemy prepares to charge the havocs he remembers that 2 ccw dread that was with the basilisk......

[ddtedie]

I know what you mean tsewell. I played a plasma cannon of death army with my Night Lords once, and was completely blown away. I have yet to try my IW against my DA opponent, as he lives a good distance away from our little group, but I look forward to returning the favor by dropping baslisk and vindicator ordnance all over his dev. sqd.