Grey Knight Heroes

[Terminus]

I hope someone can help me out with this. My codex is unfortunately about 300 miles away at school<DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>.

 

Can a Grey Knight Hero take a Storm Shield, or an Annointed/Power weapon? If yes, has anyone ever thought of taking a power weapon to give him an extra attack with the NFW? I realize that for 5 more points, an Incinerator will probably be far more effective, but I just have this badass image stuck in my head of the Capt. Stern model wielding two of those swords. ^_^

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Can a Grey Knight Hero take a Storm Shield, or an Annointed/Power weapon? If yes, has anyone ever thought of taking a power weapon to give him an extra attack with the NFW?

 

Yes, I have done exactly that, 6 attacks on the charge. :D Unfortunately it no longer works in 5th ed. :( You cannot get an extra attack from mixing two specialised close combat weapons (the power weapon and the NFW). The Storm Shield still gives you an extra attack though.

[Secondwind]

Tyrak is right in that using two different special weapons stops you getting a bonus attack on your nemesis force weapon. That means power weapon + nemesis force weapon does not grant you an extra attack in combat.

 

Now heres the funny thing, model on a cool sword and just count it as a standard 1 pt close combat weapon (alot cheaper than a power sword ^^) and you gain that +1 attack! Dont believe me? check pg 42 of the rulebook and its under the section "A normal and special weapon".

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Now heres the funny thing, model on a cool sword and just count it as a standard 1 pt close combat weapon (alot cheaper than a power sword ^^) and you gain that +1 attack! Dont believe me? check pg 42 of the rulebook and its under the section "A normal and special weapon".

 

You can't take an extra close combat weapon for GKs in Terminator Armour, hence why both of us went straight to the power weapon (the next cheapest thing).

[Prathios]

Yeah... the new rule makes sense though. It keeps me from giving my Black Templar chappy 6 power fist attacks on a charge. I usually dont worry about giving my heroes any extra weapons, the GM is expensive enough already and the Captain isn't survivable enough to equip with much. I usually just grab an icon of the just and call it good unless im fighting daemons.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I still love my thunder hammer/daemon hammer paired with a psycannon combo..

 

Don't have to worry about losing out on the extra attack because thunder hammers can't get them anyway, and psycannons rock. More strength 8 attacks? Yes please!

 

Pair up the Destroy Daemon psychic power with a Daemon Hammer and someone's getting hurt!

[Terminus]

Can a Grey Knight Hero take a Storm Shield, or an Annointed/Power weapon? If yes, has anyone ever thought of taking a power weapon to give him an extra attack with the NFW?

 

Yes, I have done exactly that, 6 attacks on the charge. :D Unfortunately it no longer works in 5th ed. :( You cannot get an extra attack from mixing two specialised close combat weapons (the power weapon and the NFW). The Storm Shield still gives you an extra attack though.

!! Really? Does that really work, the old school storm shields give you an extra attack? Hmmm... if so, I think I'll take that cool dagger I clipped from the Champion of the Ultramarines Honor Guard, and give it to Stern. Say it's a "storm dagger", and he uses it like a main gauche. Now THAT would be sweed. :)

 

I still love my thunder hammer/daemon hammer paired with a psycannon combo..

 

Don't have to worry about losing out on the extra attack because thunder hammers can't get them anyway, and psycannons rock. More strength 8 attacks? Yes please!

You are a crazy person, and the Inquisition has been notified to re-evaluate your psych-profile for Chaos corruption.

 

You have a very expensive character, one of the few models in your army that has I5, and he has a S6 force weapon that can kill eternal warriors. But you pay an additional 30 points to make him strike at I1 except in a few niche circumstances? And psycannons are too many points for an already expensive character that I want in melee killing things.

[gil galed]

crazy double post

[gil galed]

You have a very expensive character, one of the few models in your army that has I5, and he has a S6 force weapon that can kill eternal warriors. But you pay an additional 30 points to make him strike at I1 except in a few niche circumstances? And psycannons are too many points for an already expensive character that I want in melee killing things.

 

I'm tempted to agree, daemon hammer on a brother captain however i wouldn't mind as much, but still...

 

Can a Grey Knight Hero take a Storm Shield, or an Annointed/Power weapon? If yes, has anyone ever thought of taking a power weapon to give him an extra attack with the NFW?

 

Yes, I have done exactly that, 6 attacks on the charge. :D Unfortunately it no longer works in 5th ed. :) You cannot get an extra attack from mixing two specialised close combat weapons (the power weapon and the NFW). The Storm Shield still gives you an extra attack though.

 

 

is a SS a ccw? or is it the whole old codex 1 handed weapons = ccw

[Inquisitor Fox]

Actually I typically run him as an integral Brother Captain to a Terminator squad as an Elites choice, which allows me as per it's unit entry to swap, for free, any models Nemesis Force Weapon and Storm Bolter to Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. I then pay 30 points to give him a Psycannon instead of the Storm Shield... meaning his Thunder Hammer is free, and he weighs in at a whole 90 points or so.

 

When I've ran him as a Grand Master, he's done remarkably well, especially with a body guard that count as a Retinue as per picking out independant characters due to our older Codex. I've gotten a lot of use out of that Thunder Hammer instead of having a Nemesis Force Weapon, on both a Brother Captain and a Grand Master. It's even more fun with Destroy Daemon, and the two or three items we have like the Grimoire of True Names and the various Ungeots and whatnot.

 

Is it for everyone? No.. some people won't think it's worth it and prefer a different equipping. I like it though, so I always mention it. It's worked for me :D

 

edit: One thing to note is the Grand Master has an additonal attack over a Brother Captain, which is important with a Thunder Hammer which can't benefit from additional combat weapons. Also, making him Strength 8 instead of Strength 6 is important in terms of also allowing him to be an anti-tank device. The Force Weapon bit doesn't come up much because most things that you have a shot of insta-gibbing will be killed by the strength of the Thunder Hammer, or the normal way of simply causing lots of wounds. DH Thunder Hammers also can permalock a MC or independant character making them not attack at all.. I'd rather have a Grey Knight swinging it than a DH Inquisitor!

[Terminus]

If you want him to be an anti-tank device, just give him Hammerhand for 10 points. Voila, he is ripping apart armor with his bare hands, and with one extra attack to boot!

[Inquisitor Fox]

But you lose the armor negating attack, instagibbing every other armies IC's (they're usually all T4 folks, that's insta death even if they're immune to psychic powers or you used a differnt one in the turn you're trying to attack), as well as the auto crew shaken results on vehicles.

 

I still like my hammer, you don't have to, but I always try to point out alternatives that people may not have considered (as evidenced by my continued support of Assassins, DCAs, and my close combat WH Inquisitor).

[Grand Master Tyrak]

is a SS a ccw? or is it the whole old codex 1 handed weapons = ccw

 

I think the (Mk I) Storm Shield does count as a one-handed CCW, so we do get the bonus attack.

[Terminus]

But you lose the armor negating attack, instagibbing every other armies IC's (they're usually all T4 folks, that's insta death even if they're immune to psychic powers or you used a differnt one in the turn you're trying to attack), as well as the auto crew shaken results on vehicles.

 

I still like my hammer, you don't have to, but I always try to point out alternatives that people may not have considered (as evidenced by my continued support of Assassins, DCAs, and my close combat WH Inquisitor).

Hey, I'm not knocking what works for you, I just think you're crazy. ;) A close-combat WH Inquisitor? Further proof of Chaos contamination! Before being granted the Emperor's Mercy, you will reveal the full depth of your heresy (that means spill the beans :P).

 

Kidding aside, everyone has their own preferences. You like smashing vehicles and IC's with your Grey Knights. I like saving points and shredding masses of infantry, and occasionally frying some dude's brains (hammerhand and the force weapon are not mutually exclusive, since you never need both in the same turn). I do give a thunderhammer to one of the regulars, or to the Brother-Captain if I'm fielding him instead of the Grand Master (the BC's initiative is 4, and he doesn't have a force weapon, so I don't really lose anything, and it's free).

 

In Space Marine armies, that thunderhammer guy can get an extra attack from Pedro, or a re-roll from Vulcan (or make regular NFW S7 with Khan!). With Imperial Guard, you can make all their weapons get re-rolls, no matter what HQ you field.

 

----

 

Thanks on the SS clarification, everyone. I guess I'll be making a sword&dagger Grand Master. :D

[Secondwind]

Gah silly me, totally forgot terminator armour stopped the use of close combat weapons!

 

Anyhow as this thread is on "grey knight heroes" I was wondering what other peoples thoughts on this were.

After looking at the Grandmasters points and his main advantages over a brother captain are the extra initiative, wound, attack and force weapon. Sounds like alot of difference but after thinking about it I could get 2x brother captains with stormshields which would mean you get 8 attacks with 2 effective wounds while still having a few points left over. Would that balance out the loss of a force weapon, one wound and one initiative? Or is it still more reliable to stick with a GM / retinue ? or BC/retinue?

[Terminus]

You're talking about running them solo, or with retinues? By themselves, they won't accomplish much of anything, and die very very very very quickly.

[Inquisitor Fox]

You'd be surprised how long mine lasts on the tabletop, in large part due to the Retinue rules. What I use (NOT min-maxed, it's a for fun and fluffy retinue that works surprisingly well)

 

1 Inq Lord (power armor, rosarius, bolter-stake crossbow, force weapon, digital weapons, scourging, his will be done, a few other trinkets like a psychic hood)

2 Acolytes (carapace armor, bolt pistol, shotgun, grenades)

2 Crusaders

1 Combat Servitor

1 Sage

1 Familiar

2 Chiurgeons

 

Land Raider transport

 

Hordes of fun, effective and fluffy. To min max it I would recommend either the mancatcher/force weapon idea, or power weapon spam (3 crusaders, 3 acolytes w/ power weapon & carapace armor, 2 chiurgeons, familiar, land raider).

 

Not much will be alive after that unit charges it out of a land raider!

[Secondwind]

@Terminus - Im saying 1BC - HQ and another from a GKTsquad, thus if you run a normal squad of 4 GKT + GM, you could easily replace that with 3GKT + 2x BC with stormshields with a very similar points expenditure.

[Terminus]

You'd be surprised how long mine lasts on the tabletop, in large part due to the Retinue rules. What I use (NOT min-maxed, it's a for fun and fluffy retinue that works surprisingly well)

 

1 Inq Lord (power armor, rosarius, bolter-stake crossbow, force weapon, digital weapons, scourging, his will be done, a few other trinkets like a psychic hood)

2 Acolytes (carapace armor, bolt pistol, shotgun, grenades)

2 Crusaders

1 Combat Servitor

1 Sage

1 Familiar

2 Chiurgeons

 

Land Raider transport

 

Hordes of fun, effective and fluffy. To min max it I would recommend either the mancatcher/force weapon idea, or power weapon spam (3 crusaders, 3 acolytes w/ power weapon & carapace armor, 2 chiurgeons, familiar, land raider).

 

Not much will be alive after that unit charges it out of a land raider!

Well, except for the fact that except for the Lord they are all S3 I3, so plenty of things will be alive. But why not combine the min/maxing? 3 crusaders, and 3 acolytes with man-catcher/power armor. If they hit you with regular shots, take it on the power armor, if they hit you with special weapons, take it on the crusaders. And any nasties they encounter will be losing up to 3 attacks. :D

 

For bonus points, use them in an Imperial Guard army, add a priest for the eviscerator, another 4+ invulnerable, and re-rolls on attacks, and then have either Creed or Straken to give them furious charge. In this case, I'd probably just load up on power weapons, because that's 18 power weapon attacks at S4 I4 that re-roll to hit from the retinue alone.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

On a Grandmaster, you never give up the NFW. Here is why;

 

NFW:

- S6 means you wound T4 characters on a 2+ anyway

- You hit at I5 against mundane targets, which is a big deal (I6 with 'Sacred Incense' against Daemons)

- You can combine the NFW with a storm shield for +1A, getting 6A's on the charge

- You can remove any multi-wound model in the game, simply by inflicting 1 wound on them and passing a psychic test at Ld10 (Eternal Warrior can't block it)

- For a 1/3rd the price of a daemonhammer, you can upgrade to 'Hammerhand', which hits at I5 with 6A's on the charge (thus being able to take out walkers before they can hit back, and rip apart the rear armour of most tanks)

 

Daemonhammer:

- S8 means you instant-death T4 with every wound you inflict, you wound everything bar T7/8 on a 2+

- You hit at I1 against everyone except Daemons

- You max out at 5A's on the charge

- You can make use of the 'Destroy Daemon' power (because you don't need to use up your psychic 'slot' on force-weaponing the enemy)

- You can stun-lock enemy characters and MC's (assuming they didn't die to the daemonhammer in the first place), due to the old wording of the TH rules in the armoury

 

 

It's important to remember that the retinue can always take TH+SS to support the Grandmaster.

So, on balance, you should go for the NFW+SS+'Hammerhand'+'Sacred Incense' combination. It costs the same as NFW+Daemonhammer, but you're getting 6 x S6 force-weapon attacks at I5 (I6 against Daemons), or you can swap (on a psychic test) to 6 x S8 attacks at I5 (I6 against Daemons) for breaking open armour or killing Nobs.

[Terminus]

Plus, the imagery of it is just too funny. Pfft, I'm not getting that sticky green crap on my lovely weapons, I'll punch those orks to death. *smack* *insta-gib*

[Hinti]

Nice Topic.......

Contains a LOT of Info for me......

 

But:

I6 with 'Sacred Incense' against Daemons

??????????

A GM has I5, and Sacred Incense works on ALL Chaos Modells............??

Or am I wrong?

[Secondwind]

No your right Hinti, Sacred incense decreases the initiative of all chaos models by 1 when in a combat which the grandmaster participates. Chaos as in daemons and chaos so its probably one of the best pieces of wargear around considering it allows your normal terminators to essentially still get their attacks when a chaos lord would kill them before they strike.

[gil galed]

No your right Hinti, Sacred incense decreases the initiative of all chaos models by 1 when in a combat which the grandmaster participates. Chaos as in daemons and chaos so its probably one of the best pieces of wargear around considering it allows your normal terminators to essentially still get their attacks when a chaos lord would kill them before they strike.

 

yeh i thought i'd point out that you don't get +1I the enemy gets -1I, which can make a difference

[Inquisitor Fox]

On a Grandmaster, you never give up the NFW. Here is why;

 

*snip*

 

- You can combine the NFW with a storm shield for +1A, getting 6A's on the charge

That was one of the things I pointed out... a Daemon hammer plays better with a psycannon (or incinerator) because you can never gain an extra attack with it.. so you have a lower opportunity cost for utilizing the special weapons (psycannons also like the higher BS)

 

It's important to remember that the retinue can always take TH+SS to support the Grandmaster.

So, on balance, you should go for the NFW+SS+'Hammerhand'+'Sacred Incense' combination. It costs the same as NFW+Daemonhammer, but you're getting 6 x S6 force-weapon attacks at I5 (I6 against Daemons), or you can swap (on a psychic test) to 6 x S8 attacks at I5 (I6 against Daemons) for breaking open armour or killing Nobs.

The Thunder Hammer paired with the Psycannon or Incinerator is something that most of the Retinue cannot do, if you want to pair up and have two of one of these in your squad, having other options besides a Storm Shield/NFW pair is nice.

 

Yes, I acknowledge that the loss of initiative can be telling, but depending on circumstances you might be very happy with the additional strength 8.. as well as if you're a person that likes dual Holocausts or Sanctuary or something. Just ideas to consider.