Redleg Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'll try painting this picture as well as possible. Feel free to line up the models in your home if you have them! Tactical Squad of Marines is approximately 20-24 inches away from an Ork Trukk. The Marines are staring straight at the hood of the truck (front armor). In front of the Trukk are 2 Orks from another unit. These orks are no more than an inch away from the Trukk but directly in front of it (between Trukk and Marines). Does the Trukk get a +4 Cover Save? Group 1 argued: The Trukk gets a cover save because of page 21 in the rulebook...."If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by other models, it receives a +4 cover save in the same was as if it was behind terrain." Group 2 argued: The Trukk does not get a cover save because of page 62 in the rulebook..."Vehicles do not benefit from cover in the same was as infantry...their sheer size and bulk mean they cannot take advantage of cover as well as infantry and other smaller, more agile troops. The difference from the way cover works for other models is represented by the following exceptions to the normal rules for cover..." specifically..."At least 50% of the facing of the vehicle that is being targeted needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models from the point of view of the firer for the vehicle to claim to be in cover." Group 2 argues that the point of view from the Missile Launcher sees over 50% of the front of the Trukk (the Orks aren't that tall and the Trukk is several inches tall in height) so the Trukk gets no cover. What are your thoughts? And if you're curious...the Trukk was given a cover save of +4....which it failed anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 The truck shouldnt have gotten a cover save.... two orks doesnt cover 50% of the front of the model unless they are on epicly scenic bases... wich would be a cheap trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurth Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I have to agree this doesn't sound like the trukk would get a save, seeing as how two orks are unlikely to cover at least half of the side of the trukk that faced the attackers, unless perhaps they're both warbosses, big meks with shokk attack gunz, or similarly-sized models. Two regular boyz, I shouldn't think so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Depends on the height of the Trukk. If the trukk is less than twice the height of the intervening models then it might. Like a unit of termies in fron of a dread. The termys are more than half the size of the dread so dread will get 4+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praeger Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 answer in this case is yes AND no. From the way you desribe: Marines can ONLY see the FRONT of the trukk. After doing a few tests, yes two orks side by side DOES cover more then 50% of a standard sized ork trukk. HOWEVER if you where looking side on or from above, or the transport was modified, then no you could not. I have done this size test using both an old trukk, a new one, and a battlewagon - two orks will in all cases cover the width over 50%, in the old easily more then the height, the truck its aprx 50%, and the battlewagon IF THE TOP TURRENT IS INCLUDED then it is aprx only 25% coverage - without the turrent aprx 35-40% coverage in height. Also, if the models where gretchin then no (except for old style trukk) and if Nobbs then yes all the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Donahaigh Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Not exactly a rule, but i think your best solution is on pg. 22 of the mini rulebook: "For a faster...solution, players may agree to treat these units as in cover, but with a cover save of one less than normal". It's better than 20 minutes of debate, and realistic, the pair of boyz ARE partially obscuring the trukk. Even here, with brothers who have lined up the models, there's disagreement about the 50% measure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Out of interest and relating to this topic, where would you check line of site from on a Attack bike? The gun or the men themselves? I ask as it came up in a game i had. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Out of interest and relating to this topic, where would you check line of site from on a Attack bike? The gun or the men themselves? I ask as it came up in a game i had. The gunner's face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I measured it up. Doesnt seem like the boys cover enough of the front arc. I think they were possibly measuring the front grill rather than the whole of the front arc- which would be as high as the trukk is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1995654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commissarkai Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If using an old trukk, I see two average sized Orks concealing the slim front profile of it enough to warrant a cover save. Maybe only a 5+, depending, but something nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1997368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlakir Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 It would depend on what parts are put on the Trukk. Mine is about 7cm high (I use cm here as that is the unit which is closest to an even number)... take away the two metal rails and it's 6cm..... and Ork Boy is about 3cm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1999446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 dont wanna get technical- but, even if it is 6cm high, the gaps between the two models will push that limit to more than 50% Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169058-do-you-think-this-trukk-gets-a-cover-save/#findComment-1999449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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