Corky Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I have a few questions here, i have been re-reading Legion and in it at one point it mentions that the Alpha Legion only have a few decades of experiance. This made me wonder if that concerns the whole legion or just since they were reunited with their Primarch? I then started to wonder when the legions were reunited with their primarchs and when compared to the time line of the Great Crusade Horus was first i believe but then who was next? Hope you can help Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
drazz Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Emperor left Earth in search or the Primarchs with their Terran born leagions in tow. So, --all 20 legions were created on Terra (each from the genetic code of their Primarch), --organized by their numbers (with the knowledge of who their Primarch was going to be if/when they were found), --they scoured the galaxy looking for those Primarchs, --and introduced the Primarchs to their legions when found/convinced to join the crusade. Then, the Primarchs were allowed to --recruit new legion members from the planet on which they matured, --bring with them their trusted advisors that were too old for full Astartes transformation, --re-organize their Terran (+local) Legion to fit their fighting style. Read the HH book Tales of Heresy for a good look at how the introduction of Angron to his Legion. Also, this brings up a fair question as was mentioned in another thread in this forum yesterday. What if those last two Legions, the ones that were erased, never found their Primarch/found him dead? Being the genetic clones of a specific primarch, there's no way they would join with the other legions and fight under a different lord. I could very well see the Emperor leaving an entire legion behind surface-side to mourn their fallen Primarch father, only to destroy the planet, and the legion, as the Crusade moved on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astalon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Its not entirely true. Some legions, like the Alpha legion were created by the Emperor only a few years before Alpharius was found. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Thanks for the replies so far, Astalon, where are you getting your information from, never heard that before. Ive read Tales of Heresy as well thanks, man Angron has a temper in that book! Are there any dates or evets in terms of progress of the Great Crusade that the primarchs were found, as i said before i believe Horus was the first to be found and that was shortly after the Emperor set off on the Great Crusade Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astalon Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 IA: alpha legion as far as i can remember. Its stated in a way in which indicated the Emperor had some kind of prescience that Alpharius would soon be found so the legion was created. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Emperor left Earth in search or the Primarchs with their Terran born leagions in tow. So, --all 20 legions were created on Terra (each from the genetic code of their Primarch), --organized by their numbers (with the knowledge of who their Primarch was going to be if/when they were found), --they scoured the galaxy looking for those Primarchs, --and introduced the Primarchs to their legions when found/convinced to join the crusade. Then, the Primarchs were allowed to --recruit new legion members from the planet on which they matured, --bring with them their trusted advisors that were too old for full Astartes transformation, --re-organize their Terran (+local) Legion to fit their fighting style. Read the HH book Tales of Heresy for a good look at how the introduction of Angron to his Legion. Also, this brings up a fair question as was mentioned in another thread in this forum yesterday. What if those last two Legions, the ones that were erased, never found their Primarch/found him dead? Being the genetic clones of a specific primarch, there's no way they would join with the other legions and fight under a different lord. I could very well see the Emperor leaving an entire legion behind surface-side to mourn their fallen Primarch father, only to destroy the planet, and the legion, as the Crusade moved on. The two erased legion found their primarchs the statues were at the palace and visible at one point. All 20 legions fought in the great crusade with their primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
drazz Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 The two erased legion found their primarchs the statues were at the palace and visible at one point. All 20 legions fought in the great crusade with their primarchs. Ah, yeah, good point. Had forgot that. Though, the death of their Primarch angle still stands. How motivated would a Legion be, before the HH, if they had lost their Primarch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Not all legions were created on earth. The Blood Angels didnt exist till the Emperor found Sanguinius on Baal - he then offered to take 10,000 of the best pure humans inteh tribes and raise tehm up to be space marines. Thus were the Blood Angels born. No mention of any joining of an existing unit. Same as the SW's - they were all from Fenris. Several, if not most of the legions may have been created on earth (IF's, 1000 Sons, DA's, Death Guard certainly...) but not necessarily all... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1995939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Engel Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Same as the SW's - they were all from Fenris. Several, if not most of the legions may have been created on earth (IF's, 1000 Sons, DA's, Death Guard certainly...) but not necessarily all... "Wolf at the Door" seems to contradict this, to an extent. Also, the World Eaters were certainly created before their Primarch was found. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Fellblade Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Created before Primarch was found: World Eaters (Tales of Heresy, Khârn, all non-Angrons mentioned, etc) Death Guard (Flight of the Eisenstein, Nathaniel Garro) Luna Wolves (Horus Rising, Iacton Qruze) Emperor's Children (Index Astartes, the accident at creation happened before Fulgrim was reunited with the Legion) Iron Warriors (Index Astartes) White Scars (Index Astartes) Space Wolves (Index Astartes) Imperial Fists (Index Astartes) Night Lords (Index Astartes) Iron Hands (Index Astartes) Ultramarines (Index Astartes) Thousand Sons (Index Astartes) Raven Guard (Index Astartes) Word Bearers (Index Astartes) Dark Angels (Descent of Angels) Exceptions to this are: Blood Angels were created solely from the Baalites under Sanguinius (Index Astartes) Salamanders are mentioned as being created from the 7 createst tribes of Nocturne (Index Astartes) Alpha Legion, they were created 'with astounding prescience by the emperor' a few decades before Alpharius was found (Index Astartes). All that's mentioned about the order the Primarch's were discovered in is that Horus was the first and Alpharius was the last. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 Thanks for that list of the legions, need to go through the Index Astartes articles again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepherian Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 from what i heard but this may confuse the issue but wasnt alpharius twins 2 primarchs and when horus was dying and erabus took him back in the past and he saw the growth chambers with the primarchs in them he grew angry and destroyed one of the chambers the other primarch never found perhaps? cause form what i read it never specified that it was back in time or a dream vision did it? and im not so sure but wasnt alpharius descovered by horus dont know if it was rumor or something just what i heard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 the 2 missing primarchs were found and both them and their legions participated in the crusade. however some time before the heresy took place something horrible happened to them and their legions. @Lucifer Fellblade: then alpha legion was part of the legions created before the finding of their primarch :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
drazz Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 @Lucifer Fellblade: then alpha legion was part of the legions created before the finding of their primarch <_< But, not necessarily made of Terrans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Salamanders are mentioned as being created from the 7 createst tribes of Nocturne (Index Astartes). ++Ret-con alert++ Khârn had heard how the Salamanders had waited in orbit around the burning moon, waited for the Emperor's word that the one he had found there was indeed their sire. Source: After Desh'Ea, Tales of Heresy page 378. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Another intersting, but often overlooked point, the legions didnt neccessarily get the same geneseed as their primarch. If it wasnt till after the heresy that the Imperium locked up the remaining geneseed stocks of the heretics and from then on ensured that each chapter/legion only received its own seed - then surely at some time pre-heresy, this restriction was not in place and sometimes members of the legions had a different geneseed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1996985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astalon Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Another intersting, but often overlooked point, the legions didnt neccessarily get the same geneseed as their primarch. If it wasnt till after the heresy that the Imperium locked up the remaining geneseed stocks of the heretics and from then on ensured that each chapter/legion only received its own seed - then surely at some time pre-heresy, this restriction was not in place and sometimes members of the legions had a different geneseed... Every marine had the gene-seed from their primarch. Like when the alpha legion was created, the emperor used the gene seed taken from alpharius before he was cast in to the warp. Why would they receive a different primarch's geneseed? Its never mentioned that it wasn't checked which geneseed was given to member's of legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1997052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 That might be true to an extent as all Terran marines be they SW or Sons of Horus or deathgaurd all had their original primarch geneseed but due to them being from terra rather than Fenris or cthonia or barberus they looked slightly different to their battle brothers reqruited after their primarch was found. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1997215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If that paragraph is true, that it was only after the heresy that each chapter would only receive its own geneseed, then it suggests that at some time prior to that that geneseed wasnt as strict. Maybe at one point the Emperor jsut churned out 'space marines' and formed them into the proto-legions, but sometimes marines with different geneseed ended up in different units, that went on to be grouped together in something that became a legion, and was then assigned to the primarch who shared the geneseed with the majority of the present marines. Maybe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1997799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astalon Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If that paragraph is true, that it was only after the heresy that each chapter would only receive its own geneseed, then it suggests that at some time prior to that that geneseed wasnt as strict. Maybe at one point the Emperor jsut churned out 'space marines' and formed them into the proto-legions, but sometimes marines with different geneseed ended up in different units, that went on to be grouped together in something that became a legion, and was then assigned to the primarch who shared the geneseed with the majority of the present marines. Maybe. Its not the case though, the fluff makes clear that every space marine in a legion bears the geneseed of the primarch. There's no way a space wolf would have Magnus' gene seed, mainly because the two legions are so different and it would be instantly recognisable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1997919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imriel Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If that paragraph is true, that it was only after the heresy that each chapter would only receive its own geneseed, then it suggests that at some time prior to that that geneseed wasnt as strict. Maybe at one point the Emperor jsut churned out 'space marines' and formed them into the proto-legions, but sometimes marines with different geneseed ended up in different units, that went on to be grouped together in something that became a legion, and was then assigned to the primarch who shared the geneseed with the majority of the present marines. Maybe. Its not the case though, the fluff makes clear that every space marine in a legion bears the geneseed of the primarch. There's no way a space wolf would have Magnus' gene seed, mainly because the two legions are so different and it would be instantly recognisable. Another example being that the Emperor's Children were limited in size (200 marines) before Fulgrim was found due to their gene seed being almost entirely destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-1997936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 the 2 missing primarchs were found and both them and their legions participated in the crusade. however some time before the heresy took place something horrible happened to them and their legions. @Lucifer Fellblade: then alpha legion was part of the legions created before the finding of their primarch -_- Does this not directly contradict the canon stating that Horus witnessed that one of the lost Primarchs' incubation capsules was damaged and he lamented that the greatness of whoever was inside would never come to pass? :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-2007445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caducus morbidus Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 the 2 missing primarchs were found and both them and their legions participated in the crusade. however some time before the heresy took place something horrible happened to them and their legions. @Lucifer Fellblade: then alpha legion was part of the legions created before the finding of their primarch :P Does this not directly contradict the canon stating that Horus witnessed that one of the lost Primarchs' incubation capsules was damaged and he lamented that the greatness of whoever was inside would never come to pass? :( Maybe not. Maybe Horus knew the one inside would turn to Chaos but he would be stopped (by big E or one of the other Primarchs or Legions) before doing any harm. Could be explained by that. And I think it was Horus who damaged the capsule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-2007538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazal Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 the 2 missing primarchs were found and both them and their legions participated in the crusade. however some time before the heresy took place something horrible happened to them and their legions. @Lucifer Fellblade: then alpha legion was part of the legions created before the finding of their primarch ;) Does this not directly contradict the canon stating that Horus witnessed that one of the lost Primarchs' incubation capsules was damaged and he lamented that the greatness of whoever was inside would never come to pass? :blink: Hate to sound like a dork here, but remember what Horus saw was shown to him by the chaos gods while he was half delirious from the wound of obtained on Davin. We have no proof that what he saw and did was the truth of how the primarchs were scattered and not just spoon fed lies by Tzeetch meant to twist Horus away from the Emperor and into the fold of chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-2007696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Perhaps, but showing someone a hidden truth is far more damaging than simply showing them a lie. As a lie can be disproven but a truth witheld, a partial truth especially, is instrumental in getting someone to believe what you want. I suspect that what Horus was shown was indeed the truth, albeit with parts omitted to prompt the Warmaster to take his first steps to damnation of his own free will... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169076-when-the-primarchs-were-reunited-with-their-legions/#findComment-2008605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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