Bearboy Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Hello brothers! Today I came across a box of sniper scouts and need advice on how to equip 'em! I've already got a box of regular scouts built up with 2 Plasma Pistols, melta gun and 2 BP/CCW. I've got most of the bolters and shotguns left over and special weapons and that so nothing would be too hard to make. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well if youve got an OBEL squad, then a sniper squad, perhaps with ML would be a good addition, five- four snipers+ML runs you 80pts, with frankly is a steal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1996513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapturowski Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I usually equip my Sniper Scouts with a Heavy Bolter, the ability to fire Hellfire shells are pretty good. A Missile Launcher will give you the ability to take on light vehicles but i prefer to use Sniper Scouts against infantry and Monstrous Creatures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1996603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Question for the board, doesn't the process of moving onto the board from reserve count as moving so if you OBEL'd some sniper scouts they wouldn't be able to fire the turn they came on? Also I don't believe we have access to hellfire rounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1996958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Truely if you going to build/model some sniper scouts you should do 5 snipers 1 ML and 1 HB, this will give you access to both options as you will want to test both builds out with your list. I find if I am running sniper scouts in order for them to be most effective, the following works best for me; you have to run them at full strength of 6, never leave them in a unsupported area and always put them in cover. Infiltrating them usually allows you to cover all these bases. They have given me mixed results on the battle field, but against high toughness creatures and bikers they excell. As scout bikes, bikes and attack bikes are prevelent in marine lists, I am starting to lean towards the ML build, keep in mind they must roll leadership test for every kill with the sniper rifles. For the points when building my list it's a toss up for me on which to bring, my sniper scouts or my whirlwind. The difference is when you roll a dawn of war game, scouts loose 1 full turn, so don't forget you can move them 6" and run them in the shooting phase to get into position. WG Vrox if you OBEL'd some sniper scouts they wouldn't be able to fire the turn they came on? correct, OBEL is considered moving onto the board and sniper rifle is a heavy weapon thus no shots. I see no reason why anyone would want to do OBEL a scout team. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1996992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 well obel'ing snipers would annoy some BT players=p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester262 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Question for the board, doesn't the process of moving onto the board from reserve count as moving so if you OBEL'd some sniper scouts they wouldn't be able to fire the turn they came on? Also I don't believe we have access to hellfire rounds. if we want to equip our scouts with something other than our normal loadout, which includes sniper rifles, our codex sais to see C:SM. So, if you do that not only do you get sniper rifles, but you do get hellfire rounds and the unfortunate downgrade to BS 3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Question for the board, doesn't the process of moving onto the board from reserve count as moving so if you OBEL'd some sniper scouts they wouldn't be able to fire the turn they came on? Also I don't believe we have access to hellfire rounds. You can only OBEL one squad a game, so the others must infiltrate, outflank, or deploy normally. Thus you take snipers and infiltrate them or deploy them with the rest of your forces. And yes, we have access to hellfire Shells, on the heavy bolters of ONE unit of our scouts per army. Why? Because the codex says we can steal the weapon options from C:SM for one unit of scouts if we so choose. This is also where we get free sniper rifles. Good stuff yeah? And we only take the weapon options, not the statline or wargear options so no, we dont downgrade to BS 3. That would be inane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn the Fell-Handed Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 OK. This is how OBEL scouts are used by me *5 scouts *4 shotguns, *1 BP/CCW *5 Meltabombs 90 points of OH MY LORD TEH TANKS EXPLODED!!!!!1111one. Add a cheap WG with a fist/hammer and maybe a meltagun. But, IMHO, keep them cheap. Too expensive and they just become a point sink and odn;t make costs back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother SRM Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 My OBEL scouts usually have a meltagun and 2 plasma pistols. Go behind enemy tanks and pop them. Sometimes I give them a Wolf Guard with a powerfist to help thwomp tanks or in the unfortunate event that they miss all their shooting and run into a dreadnought or something of the sort. They aren't incredibly cheap, but they almost always get the job done. And don't bother investing in sniper rifles. They've always been a waste in my armies, and if you're going to OBEL do it with close range weapons that you know you'll use. You won't be able to fire heavy weapons like sniper rifles the turn you OBEL anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalodon Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 if we want to equip our scouts with something other than our normal loadout, which includes sniper rifles, our codex sais to see C:SM. So, if you do that not only do you get sniper rifles, but you do get hellfire rounds and the unfortunate downgrade to BS 3 Wrong, as Grey Mage pointed out we only use the weapons options from C:SM not the crappy scout stats. Why in the world would you think we would downgrade the scouts stats? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester262 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I was going by what army builder did. apparently they were wrong again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1997745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demogerg Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Also, read your codex VERY carefully. We get Meltabombs for 4 points for the entire unit. it reads something to the effect of "you can equip the wolf scout unit with frag grenades for +1 points per model, or meltabombs for +4 points." RAW is not 4 points per model, its 4 points for the unit I always run 4 scouts, OBEL, meltabombs. 60 points of pure awesome. one game they popped 2 land raiders and killed 4 nurgly-marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 it reads something to the effect of "you can equip the wolf scout unit with frag grenades for +1 points per model, or meltabombs for +4 points. I would call someone on this if they tried to use that as the point cost. It is 4 points per model as it is pre established the points are on a per model basis. Being 4 points for 4 models or 4 points for 6 models is not logical leap for GW. WG Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Also, read your codex VERY carefully. We get Meltabombs for 4 points for the entire unit. it reads something to the effect of "you can equip the wolf scout unit with frag grenades for +1 points per model, or meltabombs for +4 points." RAW is not 4 points per model, its 4 points for the unit I always run 4 scouts, OBEL, meltabombs. 60 points of pure awesome. one game they popped 2 land raiders and killed 4 nurgly-marines. That is rules mongering in the worst degree, and you deserve an exterminatussock upside the head. If anyone tried this at any gaming store that i've been to, and they would quickly find themselves without an opponent, as it just shows the world that they are willing to bend the rules as much as possible. I think you will find deaf ears on this forum to this kind of advise, as wolves do operate (or most do) with a level of honor. Back to the original point of the post, I have my scouts in two diff setups. 1 of sniper scouts and a heavy bolter, the full squad of 6 coming in at something like 90 points, which is silly cheap. the second is my OBEL pack: MG, PP, 2xPW, 2xShotguns, 1 ccw/bp, frags. It comes in i think at about 130 points, and in dozens of games using them, they havent made thier points back only once, and that was some epic failures rolling. In addition, they arent just devoted tank hunters, as on the charge they get 12 normal attacks and 6 power weapon attacks, which is enough to take out any heavy support infantry squad sitting back, or any squad hanging back to hold an objective (not to mention, all that shooty at the squad beforehand typically takes down a few). Honestly, if you arent keen on using dreads, or WGPL's, your cheapest way to really boost the effectiveness of your army would be to have a pair of sniper units on the cheap, and an OBEL unit. Sniper units are awesome for taking down high toughness models or monstrous creatures (perfect c'tan killing unit, and at a fraction of the price!) and the rending/pinning rules make them valuable, while your OBEL unit punishes anything hanging back. it's a nasty set of 18 models over 3 units for somewhere around 300 pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Also, read your codex VERY carefully. We get Meltabombs for 4 points for the entire unit. it reads something to the effect of "you can equip the wolf scout unit with frag grenades for +1 points per model, or meltabombs for +4 points." RAW is not 4 points per model, its 4 points for the unit I always run 4 scouts, OBEL, meltabombs. 60 points of pure awesome. one game they popped 2 land raiders and killed 4 nurgly-marines. Unless english is your third language and they never translated the codex Im going to have to say that your cheating. Wishful thinking =/= reality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Also, read your codex VERY carefully. We get Meltabombs for 4 points for the entire unit. it reads something to the effect of "you can equip the wolf scout unit with frag grenades for +1 points per model, or meltabombs for +4 points." RAW is not 4 points per model, its 4 points for the unit I always run 4 scouts, OBEL, meltabombs. 60 points of pure awesome. one game they popped 2 land raiders and killed 4 nurgly-marines. Cheap and I don't mean the points cost! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demogerg Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Playing by RAW is not cheating, I know very well it is not RAI, but GW stands by RAW vs RAI for tournaments. Also, this has not been FAQ'd or Errata'd in the near decade that the codex has been out, I am sure that I am not the first person to see this. If you read the WHFB Army book for Vampire Counts they have a similar issue with Grave Guard being able to equip greatswords for 1 point for the whole unit, But this has been Errata'd as per http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...-05_Edition.pdf So take your accusations of cheating elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Actually, you are just choosing to take RAW out of context. Instead of being redundant, GW is using proper english to only follow up with a noun instead of both a noun and pronoun. The entire squad may be equipped with frag grenades at an additional cost of +1 pt per model, and meltabombs at an additional cost of +4 pts. It's actually gramatically correct to leave out the (per model) after the +4 points as you would just be redundant by including those words. Not to mention, there is no unit in the ENTIRE GAME that has a flat upgrade fee for items, regardless of how many are in the unit (as by your interpretation, a unit of 2 and a unit of 6 would pay the same amount for meltabombs). You actually may very well be the first person to try and exploit how this is written, as most other brothers here, as said before, play with honor. Perhaps you should try your hand at chaos? "You can have ale for $5 a person, and you can have beer for $4." See how easy it is to just follow up with "per person" at the end there? There's a reason for that. As GM said, wishful thinking =/= reality. GW does assume that it's players do have a level of reading comprehension. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demogerg Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Actually, you are just choosing to take RAW out of context. Instead of being redundant, GW is using proper english to only follow up with a noun instead of both a noun and pronoun. The entire squad may be equipped with frag grenades at an additional cost of +1 pt per model, and meltabombs at an additional cost of +4 pts. It's actually gramatically correct to leave out the (per model) after the +4 points as you would just be redundant by including those words. Not to mention, there is no unit in the ENTIRE GAME that has a flat upgrade fee for items, regardless of how many are in the unit (as by your interpretation, a unit of 2 and a unit of 6 would pay the same amount for meltabombs). You actually may very well be the first person to try and exploit how this is written, as most other brothers here, as said before, play with honor. Perhaps you should try your hand at chaos? "You can have ale for $5 a person, and you can have beer for $4." See how easy it is to just follow up with "per person" at the end there? There's a reason for that. As GM said, wishful thinking =/= reality. GW does assume that it's players do have a level of reading comprehension. Ahh, but you see, your example does not apply to the rule as written. "The entire squad" means you either pay +1 points per model for each model in the unit, or not at all, you cannot have for example 2 out of 4 with frag grenades. where as with your example each person is buying their own beer or ale individually. If it said "Each model within the unit may be equipped with...." then i would concede the point. If it even said something as vague as "Wolf Scouts may be equipped with...." then i would concede, but this is not the case. And I take personal offense to your remark about me playing chaos. I have not insulted anyone, I am not trying to cheat anyone, I am trying to play the game as written. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 let's keep it calm brothers *graps crosarius a bit thighter* Demogerg has a point, if you just go by the words, however imo this isn't really honourfull to do, like only in death pointed out for each his way to handle this, by RAW of by common sense/ sportmanship Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-1999804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 [ let's keep it calm brothers *graps crosarius a bit thighter*Demogerg has a point, if you just go by the words, however imo this isn't really honourfull to do, like only in death pointed out for each his way to handle this, by RAW of by common sense/ sportmanship Sorry Hendrik but as OID has correctly pointed out, under English grammar, RAW would also mean +4 points per model unless specified otherwise. Trying to read it any other way is incorrect and, whilst mistakes occur, continuing to push the point once it is known to be dodgy cannot fail but give one an unfavourable impression. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-2000630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roguemarine Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I would even go so far as to throw army builder into this, even it adds 4 points a model, and they mess up a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-2003306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rao Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Also, you can bet your beer that in any future SW Codex this rule will be addressed, and any wording will (but I confess this is just my guess) be changed as to undoubtedly mean "+4 points per model". It is my opinion that this is a much fairer cost, and much clearer. If we can at least agree that this will be the case in any new Codex, there is very little point in encouraging people to play by the "+4 pts/unit" interpretation, especially now during what seem to be the last days of this good ol' codex. Just my 2ct. P.S. And please don't go into the "when is the new Codex is coming out" debate, as that's already being addressed elsewhere on this forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-2021315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlk Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Wow, if anyone ever tries that sort of lawyering on me, I'll have an ale or two and feed him with his more than reasonably cheap models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169133-wolf-scouts-in-all-their-glory/#findComment-2022510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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