Starting Space Wolves?

[Elric of Grans]

Since before I started playing 40K, I had always been hearing people bad-mouthing the Space Wolves --- more-so than other Space Marines --- so I had always just assumed they were as bad as all that. I have now had a chance to read into what makes them tick, and I believe that people are doing them an injustice. They seem a lot cooler than other Space Marine chapters. A hell of a lot more so! I just love the way their progression is represented: large units of Blood Claws, to regular-sized units of Grey Hunters, then small units of Long Fangs/Scouts/Wolf Guard. Very flavourful! I have still not decided, but am currently toying around with the idea of making a small force of them (no need to go too far when there is an update later this year). I am, however, a little unsure of how I would best go about it.

 

If you were making a new army of Space Wolves now, what would you do? Should I be looking at the actual Space Wolves boxes (Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, etc), or would I be better off using Ultramarine boxes and somehow converting them? Perhaps both, using left over bits from Space Wolves sprues to convert Ultramarines? I do not want to do heavy conversions, but would not be opposed to small scale things. What should I be looking at character/vehicle wise?

 

I was thinking of a list roughly like this:

2 x Wolf Guard Battle Leader

Wolf Scouts

2 x Grey Hunters

Blood Claws

Long Fangs

Would this make for a good 1000 point list, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Should I be looking to get units as large as possible, or are smaller ones just as good (eg Grey Hunters in a Razorback)? I am not looking for tournament competitive, just friendly-competitive. Are there other great options in there that I am completely overlooking?

[OnlyInDeath]

Welcome to the Fang!

 

1. I would definately pick up the Grey Hunter and Bloodclaw boxes, as the models still look good, and you actually get a nice lil space wolf upgrade sprue in them for some very easy wolfy-ing up. In fact, if you CAN get the spacewolf battleforce, it's a great start to a mechanized space wolf army.

 

2. For advice on what to collect first, you can check the link in my sig for some 750 point modular lists, or you can visit the army list subforum located at the top of the main spacewolf page. A lot of decent lists are posted in there, along with discussion on how to improve them.

 

Other than that, grab an ale, search around the forums as there's LOTs of info and discussion into the strengths and weaknesses of respective units.

 

-OID

[Grey Mage]

Welcome, welcome the ales all cold here!

 

As for squad sizes, I try to run large-if-not-maxed-out squad sizes. I just find they get more done that way. With the amount of AP 3 and AP 2 stuff out there these days, not to mention random power weapons/powerfists you just have to be able to count on taking casualties and still getting the job done you know?

 

At 1k pts I actually reccommend two units of 10 Grey Hunters, and maybe a small Bloodclaw pack. A single Wolf Gaurd Battle leader and your other HQ should probly be a wolf priest or a Venerable Dreadnaught. The Wolf Priest is very survivable and has LD 10 for a cheap price, and the venerable dreadnaught provides a good tough fire support base.

 

After that its probly best to go wtih a support unit... IE Long Fangs or a Predator. While I love Long Fangs dearly, if you have the cash I reccommend a Predator and a Whirlwind. If you dont, well then I reccommend a Devastator box, and trade for an extra missile Launcher. 2x Lascannon and 2x Missile Launcher will give you a good all around unit for about 200pts.

 

And that should bring you to a 1k force right there. As for the actual purchases? A Grey Hunter Box, a Bloodclaw Box and a Devastator box will let you make two squads of Grey Hunters and a Squad of Long Fangs.... and have five marines leftover to convert towards being bloodclaws or Wolf Gaurd. Plenty of wolf bitz for the three units too. A Plastic Dreadnaught will give you lots of options, wich is always nice and once again youll have alot of nice Wolf Bitz from the squads. Then Grab a Commander plastic kit- its got alot of the weird fun weapons youll want for your Battle Leader and Pack Leaders.

 

A note on wolf backpacks, you only get one per box so I reccommend using them to denote wolf Gaurd and using one of them on the Battle Leader.

 

Then, if you want a pack of Bloodclaws get another BC box, and thatll give you: 20x Grey Hunter, 15x Bloodclaw, 5x LongFang. Four full squads.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Welcome, welcome the ales all cold here!

 

Cold ale - shudder!

[Darkseer]

New codex in October apparently!

[Hfran Morkai]

Hail.

 

Cold ale is good!

 

Remember at range we are just efficient if not slightly less than nilla marines. Our strength is close combat. Ha yesterday a 10 man bloodclaw squad, a rune priest and Blackmane obliterated a land raider, 2 termie squads and a squad of khorne beserkers. Blood claws are the best troops out there! This was in three turns after most of the blood claws were killed by a vindicator, two actually saw combat!

[Megalodon]

Welcome to the Fang and the fellowship amongst the Sons of Russ! OID and GM have covered the basics pretty well for you.

 

Remember at range we are just efficient if not slightly less than nilla marines. Our strength is close combat.

I think our true strength is in our ability to take and hold ground like no other army in 40K. This is due to the combination of all of our troops effectively having at least two attacks and the counter attack special rule. All the extra power weapons/fists are a great addition too.

 

Blood claws are the best troops out there!

I would argue that Grey Hunters are the best due to higher WS/BS, true grit and counter attack.

[OnlyInDeath]

I really dont get why people dont think SW can shoot....we actually shoot stuff just fine, BC's not included, but who expects some of the best assault troops in the game to shoot.

 

The strength of the wolves lay in the COUNTER ATTACK ability. There are many armies out there who are actually much more assault oriented, and there are several threads that address this (ie, BA's= lots of jump pack, furious charges, BT= huge numbers, ability to move fast, 3+ hits in CC, etc). The ability for SW's to countercharge gives us a distinct advantage, as it means we can sit there and blast the enemy, giving them the option of either charging a 10 man GH squad, with a pair of special CC weaps, or standing there taking 18 bolter shots and a couple plasma gun shots per shooting phase. That's a nasty choice when it comes down to it. Not to mention, all of our vehicles are the same shootiness as C:SM vehicles, which is better than other armies can say, our vendread has BS 5, which makes him a beast at range, and in CC. Our scouts, when given the sniper options, are the only scouts out there with BS4, which is really nasty when combined w/ rending sniper rifles and/or a HB w/ hellfire rounds. Our WGBL's can have a BS5 AC or CML, our long fangs can divide thier fire between targets...we even get a Leman Russ option (granted, not the best option right now lol).

 

So in the end, we can actually shoot as well, if not BETTER than most marines out there, which is why we are so nasty to play against. We essentially dare our opponents to charge us, and thier options tend to be: let us close to short range and just blast the crap out of them, or charge us when we get in close, and face a force of standard "tac" marines w/ as many attacks as you, and more power weaps/fists then you have in a squad. And yes, we do have a nasty, NASTY CC force with our bloodclaws, especially when led by an independent charater. Even our bikers make potent threats in close combat (I personally have 2x5 bike packs, and they are just nasty). The only downside to the BC's is the fact that most enemies are hitting them on 3's, which means that they have the potential to hurt the claws pretty bad before the PF's go off. It's just typically the power fists that really rack up the kills. Picking your targets carefully and having an IC in there with a PW going off first in most combats will make them a truely scary force.

[Elric of Grans]

Thanks, that is exactly the sort of advice I had been looking for. Those 750 point lists look absolutely insane (my opponents would hate me!), and that collecting advice is perfect for starting up. Just a few more questions:

1) With converting Devastators to Long Fangs, are you using the Blood Claws models and adding Heavy Weapons to them, or the Devastators and adding extra Space Wolves bits (eg pelts)? Since they are the old fellahs, I am thinking of making them all either Beakies or helmetless. Would two packs of Grey Hunters and two of Blood Claws provide many spare Beakie heads, if I did not use any for 20 Grey Hunters and 15 Blood Claws?

2) I like the idea of using the wolf backpack on Wolf Guard, but am not sure about the rest of the model. Are you using Space Marine Captains with Space Wolves bits to make them? Do you use different base-kits for Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard Bodyguards, and Wolf Guard Leaders? I have seen pictures of these guys with Axes too, which seems perfect for a Power Weapon or Frost Axe. Where do you get them from?

3) Since the Space Wolves seem to be more focused on mid-to-short-range than Ultramarines, would you recommend adding Heavy Bolters to a Predator? I primaryly play Sisters, so I am pretty used to making the most out of Bolters, but Space Wolves have a lot more long-ranged options than I know what to do with.

 

Just a fluff question too. Space Wolves can access all the Land Speeder variants, but they do not seem like something the Space Wolves would be comfortable with. Would I be correct that they would seem out of place in a fluffy army?

 

Thanks again. This thread is already a big help.

[MaveriK]

welcome to the Fang! you have good council amongst the sons of Russ here, heed their words and drink lots of ale!

[Hfran Morkai]

Yeah we can shoot fine. It's just that you're paying more points for some rules which don't really effect shooting. I don't think I've ever really used acute senses which is the only rule that effects our shooting. And I maintain for 14 points a Blood Claw is awesome with four attacks on the charge and hitting everything but a SM captain or similar on a 4+.

[SamaNagol]

Wait 3 months.

[Hfran Morkai]

Yeah look for the SW battleforce on ebay. That was an awesome bargain with 3 upgrade sprues! Cursed GW pulling our dex and our awesome battleforce

[Grey Mage]

Actually Ive gotten more use out of accute senses in 5th ed than ever before- dawn of war deployment and all you see. Its only one turn, but killing alot of units your enemy just brought on *ie enemy vehicles* can realy make the difference.

[Hfran Morkai]

I've never really played Dawn of War deployment and most of my army is short ranged anyway. As stated I think our strength is definitely close combat and we actually are quite good at close range firefights, however then acute senses is again little use.

[Mordith]

Being a Wolf Pup myself I have a question. Everyone seems to like Counter Attack. How does this differ from other Armies Assaults? I have always thought that everyone who is in an assault gets to attack with all their attacks anyway. Am I missing something?

[Lord Ragnarok]

Counterattack would give you your charge bonus that you would receive when YOU charge into combat.

 

So my Wolf Lord will get.....

 

4 base attacks

one attack for two CCW's

one for counterattacking with pelt

and one for counterattacking.

7 attacks when he is charged (assuming Ld. test is passed)

 

So for our characters counterattacking could give us 2 attacks when we get attacked.

 

Blood Claws would get their 2+ beserk charge attacks when they are attacked.

 

Compare that to a standard codex tac squad and each marine just gets one attack when they are charged.

[KiltedMarine]

1) With converting Devastators to Long Fangs, are you using the Blood Claws models and adding Heavy Weapons to them, or the Devastators and adding extra Space Wolves bits (eg pelts)? Since they are the old fellahs, I am thinking of making them all either Beakies or helmetless. Would two packs of Grey Hunters and two of Blood Claws provide many spare Beakie heads, if I did not use any for 20 Grey Hunters and 15 Blood Claws?

Not sure of the math, but you'd be a good ways along. As for which direction to modify in, I'd say go with whichever one is easier and/or pleases your eye the most.

2) I like the idea of using the wolf backpack on Wolf Guard, but am not sure about the rest of the model. Are you using Space Marine Captains with Space Wolves bits to make them? Do you use different base-kits for Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard Bodyguards, and Wolf Guard Leaders? I have seen pictures of these guys with Axes too, which seems perfect for a Power Weapon or Frost Axe. Where do you get them from?

In my own army, the Wolf Lord is a converted 13th Co. Rune Priest, and my WGBL is a plastic GH with LCs off of one of the metal veterans. Pack Leaders use bitz out of the SM Captain kit for combi-weapons. I've found it's very easy to "wolf out" just about any option with spare bitz off the upgrade sprue.

3) Since the Space Wolves seem to be more focused on mid-to-short-range than Ultramarines, would you recommend adding Heavy Bolters to a Predator? I primaryly play Sisters, so I am pretty used to making the most out of Bolters, but Space Wolves have a lot more long-ranged options than I know what to do with.

Personally, I'd throw every HB into the army I can get away with; especially with the new IG rules, the more shots you can toss downrange, the better, just on general principle. But that's just me.

Just a fluff question too. Space Wolves can access all the Land Speeder variants, but they do not seem like something the Space Wolves would be comfortable with. Would I be correct that they would seem out of place in a fluffy army?

I think, again personally, that the LR is perfectly fluffy. It's a rolling mead-hall with BIG :) -ING GUNS, FOR RUSS'S SAKE!!! How much more wolfy can you get? I do see the idea that it's a big, high-tech-y tank and all, and our superstitious nature makes us leery of such things, so if you don't think it fluffy, by all means do without it.

[Valerian]

Just a fluff question too. Space Wolves can access all the Land Speeder variants, but they do not seem like something the Space Wolves would be comfortable with. Would I be correct that they would seem out of place in a fluffy army?

 

I think, again personally, that the LR is perfectly fluffy. It's a rolling mead-hall with BIG :) -ING GUNS, FOR RUSS'S SAKE!!! How much more wolfy can you get? I do see the idea that it's a big, high-tech-y tank and all, and our superstitious nature makes us leery of such things, so if you don't think it fluffy, by all means do without it.

 

Land Speeder, not Land Raider (or Leman Russ). And to answer the question the Space Wolves are perfectly comfortable with any/all Land Speeder variants, and every other option in their codex.

 

As far as starting Space Wolves, however, I highly recommend that you don't buy anything and just wait until the new codex and new model range is released this fall. Otherwise you will be starting something that will very quickly become obsolete and you will regret having wasted your time and money.

 

Best Regards,

 

Valerian

[Mordith]

Counterattack would give you your charge bonus that you would receive when YOU charge into combat.

 

So my Wolf Lord will get.....

 

4 base attacks

one attack for two CCW's

one for counterattacking with pelt

and one for counterattacking.

7 attacks when he is charged (assuming Ld. test is passed)

 

So for our characters counterattacking could give us 2 attacks when we get attacked.

 

Blood Claws would get their 2+ beserk charge attacks when they are attacked.

 

Compare that to a standard codex tac squad and each marine just gets one attack when they are charged.

 

Ahhhh, ok I was reading it really wrong. Thanks for the clarification!

[KiltedMarine]

Land Speeder, not Land Raider (or Leman Russ). And to answer the question the Space Wolves are perfectly comfortable with any/all Land Speeder variants, and every other option in their codex.

D'oh. ;) Sorry, brothers, too much mead.

[Megalodon]

As far as starting Space Wolves, however, I highly recommend that you don't buy anything and just wait until the new codex and new model range is released this fall. Otherwise you will be starting something that will very quickly become obsolete and you will regret having wasted your time and money.

 

Best Regards,

 

Valerian

I wouldn't discourage anyone from starting Wolves. I would however advise prudence in unit selection and upgrades to those units.

 

Units that should be a pretty safe bet in my opinion are.

 

HQ's: I'd avoid building any WGBL's with heavy weapons.

Wolf Guard: with Terminators I'd avoid giving them more than 1 heavy weapon for every 5 WG, just to be safe. I'd also avoid TH/SS until we see the new codex.

Dreads

Wolf scouts: just don't go crazy with the upgrades.

Grey Hunters: Give them bolters, a special weapon, it's probably safe to give them 2 P.weapons/Fists and avoid Plasma Pistols.

Blood Claws

Attack Bikes

BC bikers

Land speeders

Land Raiders: I'd err on the side of caution and avoid the Redeemer

Predators

Long Fangs

[Valerian]

As far as starting Space Wolves, however, I highly recommend that you don't buy anything and just wait until the new codex and new model range is released this fall. Otherwise you will be starting something that will very quickly become obsolete and you will regret having wasted your time and money.

 

Best Regards,

 

Valerian

I wouldn't discourage anyone from starting Wolves. I would however advise prudence in unit selection and upgrades to those units.

 

Units that should be a pretty safe bet in my opinion are.

 

HQ's: I'd avoid building any WGBL's with heavy weapons.

Wolf Guard: with Terminators I'd avoid giving them more than 1 heavy weapon for every 5 WG, just to be safe. I'd also avoid TH/SS until we see the new codex.

Dreads

Wolf scouts: just don't go crazy with the upgrades.

Grey Hunters: Give them bolters, a special weapon, it's probably safe to give them 2 P.weapons/Fists and avoid Plasma Pistols.

Blood Claws

Attack Bikes

BC bikers

Land speeders

Land Raiders: I'd err on the side of caution and avoid the Redeemer

Predators

Long Fangs

 

Megalodon,

 

Obviously, we have differing perspectives on the advice that we would give in this regard. I would advise against starting anything until the codex is released. However, if the OP really can't stand to wait, and absolutely must get started now, then I would recommend only doing vehicles, such as: Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, Land Raiders, Predators, Razorbacks, Rhinos, Drop Pods, and Whirlwinds. I wouldn't do any of the actual infantry units, including headquarters, as each of these is likely to get new models, or at least a new upgrade sprue. In addition to new models, there is no way to know what the available options will be. Therefore, I again reiterate that I would not buy, build or paint any of the packs - wait until October.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Grey Mage]

Well, your silly :(.

 

Grey Hunters with bolters isnt likely to go away, even with a new codex. Nore are bloodclaws likely to loose their BP+CCWs. If the worst a guy has to do is trim off a few powerweapon/fist guys from a pack, lifes not so bad.

 

Besides, theres atleast five months of game time between now and then, and he can say hes been playing since the 3rd ed codex ;) wich will help when everyones rolling there eyes over the new flavor of the month armies.

 

Go for man, enjoy, and good hunting!

[Valerian]

Grey Hunters with bolters isnt likely to go away, even with a new codex. Nore are bloodclaws likely to loose their BP+CCWs. If the worst a guy has to do is trim off a few powerweapon/fist guys from a pack, lifes not so bad.

 

Sure, Grey Hunters are likely to get Bolters and Blood Claws are likely to still be armed for close combat, but we have no real idea about what all of the other options will be. I, for one, am not a fan of redoing models, especially if they have already been painted. However, this misses the larger point: regardless of what the new Pack options are, there are releasing a new model range for the army. Why advise this fellow to start now, when we are but a few months away from getting all new models for the various Packs? That, to me, is silly, when all he has to do is be patient for a few months.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian