Fearspect Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Basically, I was wondering how this rule is interpreted: Do the Chapter Tactics special rules provided by a special character end on his death? Stepping back from strict rules, I would interpret Chapter Tactics as a way of representing the way a force is trained for battle, and that they would not forget it when their commander dies, as opposed to his presense bestowing a skillset on an army. However, this might not be the actual interpretation. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 The general idea as I have seen it used is that Chapter Tactics stay no matter what happens to the character in the battle. The fact that he is in the FOC grants the rule, not his physical presence on the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1997794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 The rules say "If you include X character, then all units ..." Its got nothing to do with any fluff nonsense at all. If you include the character in your army, in the FOC, then the army benefits from Chapter Tactics. Being alive or dead, deployed or not, on the table or not, has nothing to do with these rules. Included = in the FOC = alive or dead the rule stands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1997836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 sternguard scoring armies would be pretty useless if killing pedro killed their scoring ability So no, they are still in your army, and still somewhere on the field (even if dead), either way the rule book describes them as 'casulties' not dead :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1997898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTang Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I think Mareus Caligar is the only one that's worded so it stops working when he's dead or not on the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 THat is because Marneus Calgar does not have any Chapter Tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 THat is because Marneus Calgar does not have any Chapter Tactics. Agreed Legatus. But GTang raised a good point: Marneus' rule is dependent on him being "on the table" whereas other characters are merely required to be included as part of an army. There is an important distinction there that goes back to the OPs question regarding a characters' special rules continuation and their presence alive or dead. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Some examples similar to Chapter Tactics. The Chapter Tactics work according to the well established princible that when you include a certain choice, your army list slightly changes. - Taking an Inquisitor allows you to take Assassins. If the Inquisitor dies you do not have to remove the assassin. - Taking an Ork Big Mek allows you to take one Deff Dread as a Troop choice. If the Dread is one of your two Troops choices, your army will not become illegal if the Mek dies. - Favius Bile allows you to upgrade some of your units, you pay additional points for the models and tehy have extra rules. If Fabius Bile dies, the units do not use the special rule and you do not get your points back. - Captain Chenkov allows you to ubgrade your Conscript squads with the "without number" rule for additional points. The unit will not lose that rule if Chenkov dies. Almost every Codex has some units or options that can only be taken if a specific model is included in the army. It is the same with Chapter Tactics. Taking a certain character makes all units have a different special rule instead of "Combat Tactics". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 The Dark Angels have two Character that make Terminators and Bikes scoring, they remain scoring even if the characters are slain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Wasn't Combat Tactics typically regarded as the Ultra's Chapter tactics? Calgar's special rule is just one of his own personal ones, like Kantor's Inspiring Presence. It represents his ability to lead as opposed to the Chapter's methods of handling things. I can't see any of the other Tactics reverting back to Combat, could you imagine all the Salamanders weapons suddenly becoming less quality after Vulkan takes a dive. "Oh man, that darn Vulkan and his upgrade killswitch, best start acting like them Ultras always do" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 The rule doesnt state that you "unexchange" or "reexchange" or any such thing.... and an exchange tends to be a permanent transfer... so I believe that means you keep the effects of chapter tactics well after the IC has been removed as a casualty. Theres simply no mechanic for undoing the effect anywhere in the codex or BRB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1998803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadarn Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 With Calgar, it is more that his presence is inspiring, so if he is dead, that presence is no longer there. With someone like Vulcan or Kahn, why would the flamer care if the captain was dead? Would it decide to be slightly less effective? Also, what happens to a unit which is in reserve through outflanking in a turn when Kahn is killed? Does that mean they cannot outflank? As with many things in the codex, there is much which is assumed to be understood. The writers switch between being utterly explicit and then leaving gaping holes. There are times when you have to use common sense and the understanding of your opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1999313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Special Characters have special rules...and some have Chapter Tactics as well. If the character is killed (or not on the table), then the army no longer benefits from the special rules - but will always benefit from the Chapter Tactics because the character was included in the army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1999879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 You might have a look in this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...chapter+tactics Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169228-special-characters/#findComment-1999951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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