SM Command Squad Weapons

[ASDF_]

Hey guys, I'm kind of new to 40k, and I play White Scars. I've got Khan, a Chaplain on a bike, 23 Bikes, 5 Scout Bikes, 2 Land Speeders, and some other support units.

 

I just got a new Command Squad on bikes, and I'm in the process of building it. I wasn't exactly sure what was a good build for the weapon choices, so I wanted to ask you guys.

 

My idea was:

 

-Company Champion with Powerfist, meltagun, and storm shield

-Apothecary with narthecium

-3 Veterans with lightning claws, meltaguns, and storm shields

 

Points: 395

 

Would this be a good build for my command squad? I'm planning on using it as a distraction unit sort of, so I can rush my 23 other bikes or so down the weak flank and wipe them out, but I may use them more tactically, so I feel I need the storm shields in there.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Thanks.

[Bosco]

While that would be a very impressive unit there is a very big problem that jumps out at a glance, the cost. At nearly 80 points per model that would be a prime candidate for any and all S8-10 AP2-3 (anti-tank) weaponry your opponent has that will scythe right through their toughness and FNP. Even with 3+ invul saves, any losses will rapidly degrade the unit's potential.

 

I would suggest:

 

apothecary on bike

company champion on bike

powerfist and meltagun on bike

2x power weapon and bolt pistol on bike, one with meltabombs.

290 points

 

This unit is about 100 points cheaper than your previous suggestion, and still packs a pretty solid punch in melee. Attach the chaplain at the beginning, turbo-boost on the first turn for the 3+ cover saves (if you don't outflank) and between their twin-linked bolters before the charge, the unit's high toughness, FNP, and the volume of power weapon attacks (16 w/ to-hit re-rolls if the chaplain is attached), you should rarely face any losses against standard MEQ in melee. Against anything less than initiative 4 you should leave only a couple models standing to swing back at worst, and then the powerfist does cleanup.

 

I just worry that the nearly 400 point unit would be difficult to field and regularly earn their keep in most games.

 

Either way, good luck!

[ASDF_]

Ok, thanks for the advice. Yeah I was looking at the point costs, and deciding if this is right. I saw this build on another forum 'Yes The Truth Hurts', and it seemed like he new what he was talking about, so I thought this might be good, but I'll take your build into consideration <_<

 

Thanks.

[DevianID]

I like the uber command bike build, though I do it a tad different... You can take 4 LC, 4 plasma guns, 4 storm shields, and the apothicary for 385, and attach Khan for furious assault goodness. That yields 8 s7 ap2 attacks followed by 12 s5 i5 reroll to wound attacks, not to mention Khans attacks.

 

If running a regular bike captain (Bike + relic blade) I like 4 power fists, 4 flamers, 4 stormshields, and apothicary, also for 385. 4 flamers kill hordes, 4 fists kill anything the flamers dont kill, and the captain is cheap and effective.

[Giga]

395 pts for 5 models is way way way too much.

 

For 395 points you can get 9 terminators. Add 5 points and you can get 10. Or you can get a full unit of bikes, complete with attack bike, power fist, etc. and still have plenty of points to go around.

 

Also, you set it up so that it's very much a waste of points no matter what. If you commit them to assault, you're wasting your meltaguns. If you commit them to tank hunting, their cc potential goes to waste. And you will rarely, if ever, get the chance to do both during a single battle.

[Frosty the Pyro]

In my opinion comand squads are best used shooty, 175 for 4 plasma guns on what is practicaly 2+ armor, or 155 for 4 meltaguns. Throw them in a rhino (or razorback if thats more your speed, even bikes, though at that point you are puching the cost envilope) and they are a superb anti heavy infantry/MC unit (or antivehicle if you went melta). There are simply better choices if you want to be choppy. I think of the command squad as a "assult weapons squad" in the same way devistators are a heavy weapons squad.

 

On a related note has anyone tried 4 flamers+a powerfist (160 pts, 250 on bikes). Seams like it would be fun to drop all those templates on someone, especialy a guard or ork player

[Bannus]

-Company Champion with Powerfist, meltagun, and storm shield

The Company Champion's weapons are fixed if you take the upgrade.

 

-3 Veterans with lightning claws, meltaguns, and storm shields

 

Points: 395

Ouch! That is way too much. Eveen with all of that gear, they still won't be that hard to kill. Plus, they will be a huge bullet magnet.

 

Bikes make excellent flamer platforms - something to consider....and if you want them to have some CC ability, then add a power weapon/fist to the list. Keep a few models inexpenisive for casualty removal.

[ASDF_]

The Company Champion's weapons are fixed if you take the upgrade.

 

I saw this command squad build online, like mentioned earlier (On the blog 'Yes the Truth Hurts'), and he got a thunder hammer, meltagun, and storm shield on a company champion, and he had it in numerous army lists, so you may be correct, but considering that he seemed to know a lot about the subject, I believe that the company champion just comes with the power sword and combat shield, but then you can upgrade him if you please, but I'm not positive.

 

Thanks for all the feedback on the build though, and I'll probably save putting on any weapons, and try out numerous builds using your guys' suggestions. Thanks again :)

[Resv]

In all the games I have played I have found the Shooty Bike Command Squad to not really be worth it. Even a tooled up CC Bike Command Squad has it's limitations. The best thing you can do with any Command Squad is vary your equipment on every unit to make the best use of Wound Allocation. Here is what I use to run with:

 

Biker Command Squad - 325

Champion

Storm Shield/Lightning Claw

Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer

Storm Shield/Power Sword

Apothecary

 

This was rather expensive but it could be really really deadly. This squad could survive just about anything you could throw at it. It does become a huge fire sponge but it will stick around through a few turns.

 

As people have already said, it is a very expensive unit. I can't say for sure if it really can be considered the most effective "Beat Stick" around but it packs a punch. Also, I seem to lose more models out of my Biker Command Squad from moving into and out of Difficult Terrain, just food for thought. I'm glad I have the option to run a squad like this but lately I have shelved them in favor of of 6 Assault Terminators and a Land Raider. The Heavy Support of the Land Raider and the heavy hitting power of the Termines is very effective and has a great place in Bike Armies fluff or no.

[garreth]

I run Command squad on foot with Khan. My variant:

Apothecary

Company Champion

Veteran with Company standard and powerweapon

Veteran with powerweapon

Veteran with meltagun and storm shield.

 

It's perfect unit to kill marine squads, and Carnifexes (T6). Veteran with storm shield is needed to allocate lone PF wound (or Carni).

[Captain Idaho]

In my opinion comand squads are best used shooty, 175 for 4 plasma guns on what is practicaly 2+ armor, or 155 for 4 meltaguns. Throw them in a rhino (or razorback if thats more your speed, even bikes, though at that point you are puching the cost envilope) and they are a superb anti heavy infantry/MC unit (or antivehicle if you went melta). There are simply better choices if you want to be choppy.

 

I agree big time mate. Command squads get expensive when tooled up with assault weaponary. Quad weapons all the way!

[werewolf_nr]

The list is very solid as I have played against it and barely beat it.

[Koremu]

In my opinion, if you want to use them for CC, then you need to tool them to support your captain in CC, not be their own force. Use them to compensate for the Captains weak points, and vice-versa.

 

A Power Fist Captain will need higher Init combatants about to help out, while a Relic Blade or Power Weapon Captain will need some heavy anti-vehicle security to deter Dreadnoughts.

 

On the subject of Storm Shields, it's rarely worth the expenditure to take four, but one or two are a wise investment, depending on who you face.

[Resv]

In my opinion, if you want to use them for CC, then you need to tool them to support your captain in CC, not be their own force. Use them to compensate for the Captains weak points, and vice-versa.

 

A Power Fist Captain will need higher Init combatants about to help out, while a Relic Blade or Power Weapon Captain will need some heavy anti-vehicle security to deter Dreadnoughts.

 

On the subject of Storm Shields, it's rarely worth the expenditure to take four, but one or two are a wise investment, depending on who you face.

 

Koremu is totally right. Remember to vary your equipment though to make the best of wound allocation.

[Bjornas]

I've been pondering this aswell, and came up with the following:

 

-Champion

-Power Fist

-LC/SS

-LC/SS

 

Comes out at 300 points. I'm considering putting one SS on the Power Fist instead, do you think that'd be better?

[Koremu]

I've been pondering this aswell, and came up with the following:

 

-Champion

-Power Fist

-LC/SS

-LC/SS

 

Comes out at 300 points. I'm considering putting one SS on the Power Fist instead, do you think that'd be better?

At 60 points per model (is that with bikes?), there's no way to make that good.

 

What you (and a lot of other people) are typically doing is overequipping the squad.

 

Decide what you want the squad to do, make sure you take some spare wounds, and take the minimum equipment level to achieve the goals.

[newach]

I normally use a command squad with 4 plasma guns.

 

It work really well against Chaos Marines!

[DevianID]

To all the people wondering about the cost being too high, keep in mind that the uber bike command squad is not for the faint of heart. Yes, it runs ~385 points for only 5 guys, BUT if what you need is a hammer, it needs to be a big hammer, and the faster you swing it, the more destruction it will bring.

 

Think about it this way, a 385 point bike squad, with 4 flamers, fists and storm shields, will eat a nob biker squad twice its size and costing more points. However, unlike terminators, who will also eat the nob bikers but cost less, the command bikers are fast enough to hit the nobs first--and speed kills.

 

That said, there is nothing wrong with a 4 plasmagun command squad in a rhino someone mentioned... very focused, they cost less than a tac squad, and they do exactly what you expect them to do--drive up and unload plasma death. 4 flamers or 4 meltas also are all good shooty builds.

 

But if you want a hammer than moves 24 inches a turn, the command squad is the unit of choice; 3++ invuln, FnP, t5, up to 24 inches of movement-- only a command squad gets this.

[newach]

I would agree with DevianID,

 

but I put my Command squad in a razorback!

 

It is only 5 more points, is the perfect size (six models), and can fire 3 36" shots.

 

My Captain has a powersword and the auxilary grenade launcher.

[ZombyWoof]

This is a good thread! I just started putting my Command Squad together and could use some constuctive critisism as well. So far it's looking like this:

Captain w/Storm Bolter and Lightning Claw (or Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield)

Standard Bearer w/Power Sword

Champion w/Power sword and Combat Shield

Veteran w/Flamer and Power Fist (or Lightning Claw)

Veteran w/Flamer and Power Sword

Apothecary

They will travel in a Razorback. My intent is to use them as assault/counter-assault to replace Terminators in a 1500 point game. I don't have many Power Weapon bits at my disposal so I'm trying to get bang for the buck against all comers in CC. If I figure the points around 240 (what I'd spend on 6 Termies) or less, I might throw in a Plasma Gun and/or Plasma pistols.

[Marlow]

That said, there is nothing wrong with a 4 plasmagun command squad in a rhino someone mentioned... very focused, they cost less than a tac squad, and they do exactly what you expect them to do--drive up and unload plasma death. 4 flamers or 4 meltas also are all good shooty builds.

A plasma death squad is good however I would add a Lightning Claw or two (maybe a PF) so that the Squad has some punch in Melee.

 

But if you want a hammer than moves 24 inches a turn, the command squad is the unit of choice; 3++ invuln, FnP, t5, up to 24 inches of movement-- only a command squad gets this.

Coupled with Khan for Furious Charge they are a destructive hammer - I am just not really convinced on the cost...

[Brother Gathurn]

I run a vastly deferent comand squad i take

 

champion

1 meltagun

1pf

standard

 

This is alot cheaper than what most of you are sugesting. It suports the captin can deal fairly well with just about anything, my captin usally has a lc and hellfire and i sometimes attach a chappy to give them more power weapons. Command squads dont need to be completly tooled out. I find them much better cheap. if i want to go expensive i'll get a chapter master and give him honur guard

[vhati]

yes, i agree with the statement that command squads need to be cheap, make them too expensive and limit the rest of your army.

 

I ussually run them like this

 

captain, relic blade, digital weapons, combi-flamer

champion

apothecary

3x veteran with flamer

razorback (usually upgraded with tl-heavy flamer, just for fluff who doesn't like lots of flamey death, but bare razorback is probably better and cheaper)

 

drive up, get out of vehicle, flame something and if anthing survives: get charged or charge next turn

I like flamers, because I tend to target them at troops in cover, to me quantity of hits is better than quality of hits. everyone has either a cover save or invulnerable so melta or plasma doesn't work for me anymore.

 

And this squad is pretty cheap, for captain, squad and vehicle:

150+145+40(65) adds up to 335(360)

that's cheaper than some of the squad load-outs I've seen people suggest :P

 

ow and if you want even better performance from this squad just make vulkan your second hq, tried that once and now people don't let me play vulkan anymore :)

[ASDF_]

Thanks guys for all the helpful responses. I tried out my build that I was going with, and it did some pretty big damage:

 

In one game (me and space wolves vs. necrons and dark angels (Annihilation)) I outflanked them and came in on the left, along with 18 other bikes, and just charged like hell through everything, my command squad getting 25 attacks on the charge with Khan and my Chappy. It got targeted by heavy destroyers, destroyers, and 13 necron warriors (in rapid fire range) all in one shooting phase, and I lost 2 bikes out of 7. After that me and my space wolf drop pod army ally just totally dominated.

 

In another game (me and ultra's vs. necrons and tyranids (Capture and Control)) I put them in reserves and came in around the middle of the board on my table edge. They just rushed forward wiping out a squad of Termagants and Hormagaunts, and then remained untouched rushing toward their objective while my ally held ours, and they wiped out another necron warrior squad, making it phase out (killing a lot of the necrons army before). One of my other bike squads ended up getting a 6'' consolidation, JUST getting within 3'' of their objective, while the tyranids remaining termagants JUST was outside of 3'', and we controlled both objectives at the end of turn 5, the last turn.

 

I may try out some of your other guys' builds, but have them on bikes instead of in a razorback, and see how it goes. But, I believe that this squad can pack a huge punch, and still remain alive throughout the game. I may even take out my chaplain, and put in a librarian on a bike, but I haven't decided.

 

Thanks again though for the help guys.