I've been given a Challenge

[Megalodon]

I've had great luck putting nearly all my eggs in one basket with a Land Raider Redeemer loaded with a Wolf Lord in TDA and a Retinue. The Retinue has 2 Assault Cannons/PF and two Th/SS. Extremely effective (and expensive unit)

 

You may really like it to complement the mech force you've put together. (plus they'd kick ass once you put them together. I'd love to see SW's in termie armor modelled and painted by you)

 

You'll have to wait for me to do any new terminators until the new codex is out. I'm not taking any chances on these expensive models.

 

I'd also nix the WW in favor of a pred with Autocannon and Heavy bolters. Same price, but much more punch and survivability.

 

That's definitely an option, though I really wanna give the WW a go.

[Grey Mage]

I really, really advise you keep the whirlwind. The ability to ignore coversaves is immensely satisfying, particularly against orks and their custom force fields. It gives you two strengths to choose from, and you can AP 4 tau, eldar, gaurd, nidz and orks across the field, wound marine armys on 3's, and safely from the other side of a bunker.

 

The one upgrade I tend to give it is a HK missile, for those pesky speeders and vypers that show up to try and take it out. Its only one shot- but if the enemy isnt dead you probly are stunned at the least next turn anyways.

 

A preds AV 13 front is its only advantage... and you know, I say not being in LOS is better than AV 13.

[Megalodon]

Yeah that's my reasoning behind wanting to give the WW a go!

[Grimfoe]

I know the pred needs line of sight, but it brings MUCH more firepower to bear if used correctly. The added armor is nice, particularly when combined with a LRR, a Dread and the other pred. This in conjunction with your troop transports will make your army quite hard.

 

 

Food for thought....

[Roguemarine]

The ironclad with the 2'HK's and a drop pod are nice, he can drop in next to a tank shoot a melta and the HK's then hope he survives.

[Grey Mage]

I know the pred needs line of sight, but it brings MUCH more firepower to bear if used correctly. The added armor is nice, particularly when combined with a LRR, a Dread and the other pred. This in conjunction with your troop transports will make your army quite hard.

 

 

Food for thought....

 

Well youve got 2 autocannon shots and 6 heavy bolter shots... giving the benefit of the doubt we end up with six hits, though its as likey to be five. Youve got shot that two will be str 7, one will almost always be. So lets go with 1 wound on a 2+, 5 on a 3+, for about four dead orks per turn.

 

Whirlwind- If theyre in cover or moving around destroyed vehicles or terrain *wich with 50% of the board covered in terrain as prescribed is every turn in my games* youll average 10 hit orks. All of them will be wounded on a 3+, wich results in 6 dead orks a turn.

 

Against units like eldar rangers and pathfinders who rely on that cover save, or even marine scouts with cloaks it gets better.

 

Against light tanks the predator wins out almost entirely however.

[Grimfoe]

I know the pred needs line of sight, but it brings MUCH more firepower to bear if used correctly. The added armor is nice, particularly when combined with a LRR, a Dread and the other pred. This in conjunction with your troop transports will make your army quite hard.

 

 

Food for thought....

 

Well youve got 2 autocannon shots and 6 heavy bolter shots... giving the benefit of the doubt we end up with six hits, though its as likey to be five. Youve got shot that two will be str 7, one will almost always be. So lets go with 1 wound on a 2+, 5 on a 3+, for about four dead orks per turn.

 

Whirlwind- If theyre in cover or moving around destroyed vehicles or terrain *wich with 50% of the board covered in terrain as prescribed is every turn in my games* youll average 10 hit orks. All of them will be wounded on a 3+, wich results in 6 dead orks a turn.

 

Against units like eldar rangers and pathfinders who rely on that cover save, or even marine scouts with cloaks it gets better.

 

Against light tanks the predator wins out almost entirely however.

 

I don't disagree with your math-hammer. (I'm a big fan of math-hammer)

 

But we're making a couple assumptions here. First of all, neither the Whirlwind or the Predator is going to have a perfect shot each turn. To maximize effectiveness, the WW needs a high density target and in my experience (limited, I'll admit) you'll only get 2-3 shots like that each game. This may be a push, however, as the predator cannot move and fire it's weapons at full effectiveness, so it may only get 2-3 turns of full power shooting as well. I think the predator will fair better, however, when you consider that you'll be scattering 2 of the 3 times that you are able to fire at an optimal target, and if you're firing indirectly, you'll scatter an average of 7"

 

Add to that the simple fact that the predator has a higher armor value, then the predator seems to be more able to survive and thus, shoot more. Unless you decide to hide your WW behind cover in which case all of it's shots will be indirect and it's effectiveness will be limited as noted above.

 

In short, I believe the predator will ultimately fair better for the same points.

[Grey Mage]

Well considering its the same 85pts either way I think itll just come down to personal preference in the end. *shrugs* I prefer my predators as Annihilators with heavy bolters for the all around killy.

 

Good Hunting.

[Grimfoe]

Well considering its the same 85pts either way I think itll just come down to personal preference in the end. *shrugs* I prefer my predators as Annihilators with heavy bolters for the all around killy.

 

Good Hunting.

 

Once again, you've made the point that I was rambling toward without really expressing. I think it will come down to personal preference. In the grand scheme of things, either tank will be better or worse depending on your play style.

[Grey Mage]

Yes, but yours will be painted better :unsure:.

[Megalodon]

Thanks for the healthy discussion. When all is said and done I'll have access to 4 Preds including a Dakka Pred and a pair of Whirlwinds. So I'll have plenty of options. I am really looking forward to getting the Whirlwind on the table!

[Damocles]

Earlier you said you wanted to stop using Sniper Venerable Dreads, but obviously you still want some flexible anti-tank power. Compared to a 190pt SnipeDread, a Ven. Dread with Multi-Melta, Extra Armor and Drop Pod is only 15 points more. This gives you a first-turn unit you can usually Deep Strike within 12" of enemy armor, and a BS2 Melta shot in half range will usually see off any vehicle, especially if you got an angle on their softer armor.

 

As a Venerable, its 12-12-12 armor and Hard to Kill make it a bit more resilient than other units you'd consider stranding in enemy territory. Slagging a tank will usually give it some wreckage cover from a unit or two, and if backed up by Wolf Scouts (but I guess he won't be!) your opponent will have two units in his lines, both apt at destroying tanks and generally being nuisances. It may seem a bit fragile - especially if it's your only unit in a Drop Pod - but it's very good at what it does and will at least cause some real damage while pulling attention away from the rest of your army.