Using the Living Saint

[Apogee]

I've seen a ton of threads showing off epic paintjobs and conversions, and lots of 'backstory' posts, but rarely do I see a person talking about the Living Saint in-game. I tried fielding her in my last game - she did okay. Ate some termies, died, and then came back to life, eating a Chaplain. Not too shabby at all.

 

However, the reverse martyrdom she has is absolutely brutal. I thought if she died for good than I lost D6, but it is in fact ont he first death that I lose D6 faith points, which took me below 0, and rendered me faithless. Pretty harsh.

 

So, is she useful in a all-sister army? Or should I take her as support for a non-sister army, and burn though the faith with a Serphim squad, before dying gloriously? Anyone have good/bad experiences with her?

[Onnotangu]

I use her but only if I have a second seraphim squad with inferno pistols.

 

I also sometimes deep strike her in solo to clean up back field lootas and IG squads.

She is quite nasty with a deep striking flamer template.

[Grabsnikk]

I have only ever used her once and in that game she got killed by 5 Space Marine Scouts in close combat and promptly took the rest of my faith points with her. After that I havn't used her since faith points are almost essential to SOB being able to do well on the tabletop.

[Apogee]

I have only ever used her once and in that game she got killed by 5 Space Marine Scouts in close combat and promptly took the rest of my faith points with her. After that I havn't used her since faith points are almost essential to SOB being able to do well on the tabletop.

 

See, this is what i worry about. Without faith points, sisters are useless. So you either take her and only have her fight with easy enemies, or take her with Seraphim as a one-off support unit.

 

Seems a bit restricted, to be honest :/

[Imperator Mos]

I run 15-20 Seraphim every game, period. I find that Celestine is a better choice than a jump cannoness, if for no other reason than Hit and Run. Would I like an Inferno Pistol or extra CC attack? Sure, but WS/I 5 make up for the CC-ness, and I dont use her to hunt tanks normally. Wings of Faith are also handy if she finds herself alone.

 

In conclusion, you have to allow Celestine to use her strengths. Lead a squad, flame and get stuck in with a reasonable opponent ( if she's getting killed by scouts... new dice maybe?), be sure to hit and run, rinse and repeat...

[SJumppanen]

I have used her in Apoc. games. In last game she did a nasty trick on oppinent. In second to last turn she was killed, but would return in next turn. So i just dropped her next to one drop pod enemy had neclected to finish off and contested an objective. I think i have a photo of it.

[Melissia]

The loss of faith points due to a lucky instant death shot is the main reason why people, or at least I, don't use her. It's a very sad rule-- she's a colorful and characterful model and even her rules are characterful. In the end you can pretty much get a similar result with a jump pack canoness-- give her a blessed weapon, brazier of holy flame, and appropriate equipment, for fewer points. THe only thing you really lose is the special hit and run rule.

[Arkaniss]

She's a bit pricey, being T3 and vulnerable to Instant Death you need AoF to keep her alive i find. She attracts a lot of fire power! Its an impressive model however and i don't think i've ever taken her to be competative. Sure, sometimes my faith points get wiped out but its always a possibility. Thats always a risk you have to accept when fielding her.

 

She's a fun unit to have though, and running her with Seraphim makes her better and last longer too. Give the Seraphim Flamers - you want this coalition of awesome going after squishy infantry! ^_^

[Apogee]

Yeah, I think I'll take her with a large squad of Seraphim, and use groups of 20 Sisters to slowly advance on foot, with Exo support. Given that the match has to be at least 1500 points, I might be able to fit in my DH Inq with 'hosts... I think my next game will be interesting (albiet unfluffy) :D.

[daboarder]

i use her allied to my BA's when im taking seraphim for some close support in an all jump list. i like her but lately ive been running outta HQ slots because i really need lem and dante.

[Chengar Qordath]

I field Celestine fairly often in 1500+, as others have said she can add a lot of punch to Seraphim squads thanks to the additional flamer template and a WS-5 I-5 Blessed Weapon. If you pick the right targets Celestine and a Seraphim Squad can chew through just about any infantry squad; three Divine Guidance Flamer template ought to provide several AP-1 wounds, and the followup charge will also be fairly brutal. In my last game Celestine + her Seraphim chewed through three Tac Marine Squads and a Retributor squad, and would have done more damage if not for the game ending on turn 5.

 

Attaching her a large Seraphim squad also makes the Living Saint's ID vulnerability less of an issue as you can allocate ID wounds to other models.

[SJumppanen]

Attaching her a large Seraphim squad also makes the Living Saint's ID vulnerability less of an issue as you can allocate ID wounds to other models.

 

Large group of seraphim makes it difficult to get SotM.

[Maharajah]

Large group of seraphim makes it difficult to get SotM.

Except you should get to roll 3 dice and choose 2, which makes it much easier!

[DevianID]

I have seen the living saint used effectively before--but more effectively than a cheaper flying nun, thats hard to say, as those 70+ points can mean a lot.

 

For the -1d6 faith thing, well yeah that can be bad, BUT as she gives +3, her partner flying nun gives another 2, and add at least 2 battle sister squads, and you are looking at 7 faith minimum. Plus, its not that easy to kill her in the first place. So the -1d6 thing may only be a tad annoying (it may only be 1 less faith point), levaraged against her prodigous abilities.

 

So in the end, if you take the living saint, it should be because you like her abilities; if the idea of -1d6 faith is too much, or if you have a better use of the points, then she is not for you.

 

A side note, you can take a witch hunters army with the living saint as the only faithful model on the board. In that case, you have an inquisitor/lord, assassians, death cult, storm troopers, all the allied IG units, zealots, and 3 exorcists. The allied IG alone can be an effective army--the saint still has 3 faith to use before she dies, and an HQ that comes back to life is pretty handy.

[Toogeloo]

I'm going to add my 2 cents on this since I use Celestine pretty much in every List over 1500 points.

 

First off, I would highly advise using her only in mechanized or highly mobile Sister Armies. Second of all, don't be afraid of the Reverse Martyrdom. The fact that the Saint has a potential 24" move, is almost impossible to get rid of, and the Faith loss only happens once, more than makes up for it. The Saint is the queen of objective denial, and an absolute pain in the ass for any hunkered down units. She is also a bullet magnet making her quite useful at protecting your Battle Sisters and Exorcists (since everything is shooting at her and not them).

 

Yes she is vulnerable to ID!, but should you be dangling her out by her lonesome in front of Assault Cannons? No, of course not. Saint Celestine works quite well with a 7 girl Seraphim squad. 8 Models still pulls off SoTM well enough, but you need to play smart too. Just because you can give yourself invuls doesn't mean you should throw yourself in front of every Long Range S6 or AP2 weapon out there. Sisters are hard to kill, but they do go down. You should protect your squads the same way you protect any other army's squads.

 

 

 

Now about her strengths, let's compare her to a similarly built Canoness.

 

Canoness

-Blessed Weapon, Brazier of Holy Fire, Cloak of St Aspira, Rosarius, Jump Pack

 

This is 150 points. But you also have to consider the Brazier is a single shot, the Canoness contributes one less Faith, and she is less Assault Oriented. On top of this, she cannot Hit and Run, jump an additional 6" in the Assault Phase, or come back to life every turn... I think the Saint is a discount considering all of these extras for 51 points.

 

 

 

Now about the D6 reverse Martyrdom... The Saint contributes the average of what should be lost anyways, but just in case you should also be fielding at least 1 Seraphim Squad, and for the points required to field the Saint, at least 3 or 4 Battle Sister Squads. This is around 8 points of Faith for Sisters. You can do dueling Angels (one of my faves) and take a cheap 110 point Canoness (Evis, Cloak, JP) and add yet another 2 FPs and run both the Saint and the Cani down the board forcing your opponent to see two 2+ invul save models approaching (Those of you who play the 2+ Cani know how hard she is to kill, now imagine her and Saint running together). In most of my games at 1500 points or more, I am pretty close to 10 Faith personally, but we will go with 8 for the sake of argument. As most people have mentioned, the Saint draws a lot of fire. If your opponent really wants to kill her as soon as possible, you will know pretty quick. You will either be able to save Faith early and expect the Saint to be Martyred in which case it won't be possible to lose enough Faith to lock your pool.

 

You can also play aggressive. Force your opponent to worry about all your units. Bring all your Rhino clad girls and Seraphim to bear on one flank. You will find that many times your opponent splits his fire amongst several units and starts to forget about the Saint. It's hard to justify shooting at the Saint when a couple squads of Battle Sisters are headed towards a vital spot of your army. The best way to protect the Saint is to keep her and the Seraphim behind Rhinos for Cover. You could even go as far as to take a 10 girl Seraphim Squad with the Saint and expect to take casualties, but since you are using Cover to protect them it is like a slightly weaker SoTM.

 

 

 

The most important thing to remember is don't be afraid of losing the Saint. She can gain effectiveness if she dies. The key is knowing when you are ok to sacrifice her if need be and when you must attempt to protect her. But most importantly, the Saint is one HQ that does not play defense well. If you must protect her, be aggressive at the same time. A little bad luck will happen from time to time, but that is the nature of the game. Once you learn to use the Saint effectively, she will do more harm to your opponent than she will to you.

[Chaplian Silkor]

I've only seen her used in an apocalypse game (IG+SoB vs Tau). First she ate 2 FW squads and then almost a complete Gun drone squad which killed her. Then she came back to live to appear near the stealth squad who was trying to break open a baneblade and ate those too.

 

I haven't seen her used in normal games though...

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

I have seen St. Celestine wreak havoc on space marines and chaos. I don't think I have ever seen a more obnoxious character ever. If you kill Abaddon or Marneus, they die, rigor mortis, habeas corpus. If you kill Celestine, she keeps coming back and back and back.

 

For her points, you cannot get any better than that.

 

The problem with playing her is the same problem playing sisters of battle. If you (the opponent) don't know the witchhunters codex front to back, word for word, you will most likely lose.

 

I have lost track of the number of times I have seen Celestine or a 2+ canoness made invulnerable AFTER they have been shot, but before wounds have been rolled. That is the only problem with these characters, which epitomizes the problems I have with the army.

[WarriorFish]

I think her getting back up again (or rather, dropping back in again) rule is great. I can remember playing a game against a list she was heading and when I did manage to kill her she just kept coming back again. I felt like the stereotypical evil guy shaking my fist saying "why won't you die!?" :cuss

 

So she has negatives and positives which I think is good, it's really up to personal preference on how much importance you attach to them. If you're reduced to a quivering wreck at the thought of losing prevous faith then she's not for you. Fortunately a flying nun can do a respectable job of impersonating her.

 

As for not knowing the codex, that's neither here nor there. If you don't understand how your opponent's army works then of course you're at a disadvantage! Worse still if you don't even understand your own codex (heresy of the worst sort!).

[Toogeloo]

More and more people will start understanding Sisters of Battle Rules and when you are supposed to use them now that the Imperial Guard have similar rules. There really should be no excuse for using Faith at the wrong time since that is just cheating, and trust me, it only takes a few times of being told "No" when you ask to use faith late and lose an entire squad to learn from your mistake.

 

Guard Orders are very similar, they must be used in a specific order and before any shooting phase actually takes place. And with the popularity of the new Guard Codex, people will learn the flow quick enough. Taking that knowledge and it should not be hard to understand when Faith must be used.