Witch Hunters for a total beginner

[GlauG]

So, my GF was actually into GW stuff before we met, via the LotR game. However, in the past year or so she's dragged me back to 40k by having picked up some Sororitas minis, and now we've gone nuts assembling an army for her. We haven't got round to playing any games yet, but I'm seriously considering using her WH army first and letting her use my slightly more forgiving Dark Angels for a few games until she's used to the general theme of "stick everyone in all the cover humanly possible". Anyone have any suggestions on anything useful for a first-time player who wants to play a WH army, or have a particularly forgiving build for a 1000 or 1500 WH list?

[Grabsnikk]

Firstly, welcome to the WH, they are not really a forgiving army in that if you make a mistake the battle will likely be an uphill one from then on. However, the best advice that I can give to a new player is to play as many small games 500/750/1000 points as you can as this will let you know the abilities of your different units and you will learn how to use them properly.

They are a challenging army to play, and one that seems to perform better when fielded either as a mechanized force or an all footslogging force. This is because the mechanized force has the speed to get into the magic range of SOB which is 0-12" where the Sisters often do the most damage to the enemy. The footslogging force has the advantage in that they can put a lot of bodies on the ground making it hard for the opponent to wipe out that many power armoured models.

You will find, however, that most pure SOB players tend to fall into the mechanized variety as they tend to more effective on the tabletop against a variety of opponents.

 

One of the lists that I usually run for 1000 points is Canoness with Celestians in Immolator, 2x10 Battle Sister squads with flamers in Rhinos, 2 Exorcists. This list is just off the top of my head, but it is an entirely mechanized force and can get up close to the enemy very quickly to deliver its payload.

 

Thats all I have for now, hope it helped.

[WarriorFish]

SoB aren't that complex, you just have to read their codex properly to understand how they work best and surely you can say that about any army! The only "trick" is using AoF, but they're pretty obvious how to use best it's just a matter of getting a bit of experience with them. Again, that applies to other armies too.

 

So I'll follow up Grabsnikk's advice and say you should just get stuck in with some smaller points games (750/1000). The best way to learn is by doing after all, and if you give sagely advice during the game then she'll start picking it all up quickly. The holy trinity is core for the army though, so plenty of SoB squads with meltas and flamers will be a solid backbone, and mount them in Rhinos to get them into range quickly.

 

There's plenty of good stuff on the B&C for new WH players, in particular the army lists section should be useful. If you have any specific questions there'll be someone around to answer them for you :lol:

[DarKHaZZ13]

general tips are

take a DH inquisitor with 2 mystics

2 exorcists

and then the rest is all yours to play with ahha

[number6]

Check out the Online resources topic pinned at the top of this forum. There are several excellent articles -- many of them right here on the B&C -- about playing Witch Hunters.

[Melissia]

I reccomend NOT getting a DH inquisitor and 2 mystics. In fact, I reccomend going entirelly Sororitas, as the Inqusition is unreliable and generally inefficient IMO.

 

 

 

The Acts of Faith mechanics are straightforward and strict. Page 18 describes them thoroughly, and you can generally get three steps:

 

1: Declare you are using the Act of Faith during the appropriate time as described on page 18, the box titled "Acts of Faith", under each AoF's "Effects" subsection. (for example, for Hand of the Emperor it says: Make the Test of Faith before rolling to hit)

 

2: Make the Test of Faith as described on page 18, section "Tests of Faith". You expend a faith point regardless of the result.

 

3: If you pass the Test of Faith, the Act of Faith takes effect for that squad in that particular phase. Normal routine resumes.

 

 

I hope this simplifies things for you.

[panbient]

I reccomend NOT getting a DH inquisitor and 2 mystics. In fact, I reccomend going entirelly Sororitas, as the Inqusition is unreliable and generally inefficient IMO.

 

this.

 

the sisters can hold their own on the battlefield with proper use of the acts of faith. they're as tough as space marines so long as you stay out of CC.

 

don't bother mixing the inquisitorial part of the codex into your army until you start caring more about looks and/or fluff over winning matches.

 

a canoness w. celestian retinue packed into an immolator will be far more effective (and cheaper) than a comparable inquisitor squad.

 

one 'trick' i would suggest. if you don't end up packing the sisters into rhinos then bump up the squad size to at least 12. it pretty much guarantees divine guidance when the shooting phase comes around.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I must, predictably, respectfully disagree with Melissia and Panbient. I started with a mixed Witch Hunters force as opposed to pure Sororitas, and haven't regretted it at all. Nor have I encountered large difficulties. I will preface this by saying I started playing Warhammer Fantasy in 1998 (For the King, Bretonnia, and the Lady of the Lake!), and the switch to 40K occured in around 2002.

 

Being as your girlfriend has experience with a wargaming system (LotR), most of the difficulties of a mixed Inquisition force she'll at least mentally be able to handle.

 

My advice is this: Pick the units that draw her attention upon reading the codex, whether it be looks, rules, fluff, paint schemes, what have you. She will already be used to the fact that some units are better off shooting, some are meant for close combat, some are versatile but masters of nothing, and some can be tooled to fit particular roles from her LotR experience. If it's something that naturally appeals to her though, chances are she already has the brain and mindset to utilize that particular unit. That and she's playing for her own reasons... let her pick what SHE thinks is neat, not what a bunch of people on some posting board she's never seen like themselves. The benefit of the Inquisition armies are their endless versatility and variety... let her utilize that and put units together in her OWN style to fit HER method of play.

 

In my experience, letting people pick armies based on fluff, which models they like and what appeals to their own personality turns them into Fantastic Generals, who love their own armies and play with pride and success. It's worked for me my entire gaming career, and I've seen it work for numerous other people too. Let her brain pick on it's own, it'll find the right path.

 

That and she's more likely to keep playing that way, rather than trying to shoehorn her into someone else's style.

[ValourousHeart]

Grabsnikk has some good advice there about starting small.

As you build up to higher point games, simply add in the elements that you were lacking in the last game, and keep fiddling until you find a good balance for you.

 

Pure mech sisters tend to be the most popular / competitive, but psychos (arco, penitent engines & repentia) have a loyal following that won't leave home without them and =I= give you options that are not available with any other sister unit (plasma canons, psychic powers, assassins and orbital strikes - don't laugh).

These other 2 thirds of C:WH have their uses and are quite effective in the right situations.

(Spearhead vs IG... Orbital Strike is bound to hit something)

But as others have said, Mech Sisters tend to be better all around.

 

Last bit I would add is go out to Forgeworld and download the IA2 update.

This has some great gems for WH armies.

Namely updating our Rhino's to C:SM... it increases the cost of most of the upgrades... but for 15 point cheaper rhino's and free smoke on everything you end up ahead of the game.

 

Second point is that with IA2, storm troopers can take Valkyries as dedicated transports.

That small change moves Strom Troopers from "never take" to "hmm, maybe" IMO.

I haven't tried them yet, but you can get 2 units of IST armed for Anti-armor each loaded in a Valkyrie for about 500 pts... so i am going to tack that to my 2000 pt list and see how she flies next weekend.

 

Oh, BTW, Welcome to WH.

[Grey Mage]

Second point is that with IA2, storm troopers can take Valkyries as dedicated transports.

That small change moves Strom Troopers from "never take" to "hmm, maybe" IMO.

If your opponents will let you use IA2.

[Melissia]

If they don't let you take IA2 then I question their sportsmanship as players, considering that for the most part IA is balanced better than standard TT units. Regardless, if they WILL let you do IA, again the Sororitas are still a better choice, because now you can get Rhinos for 35 points instead of 50 with free smoke and searchlight-- that really adds up whenever you have so many mechanized squads.

[Aidoneus]

Or just use IA2 to get Repressors. Notice that they have the cheap Extra Armour, so a repressor with EA is only 5pts more than a Rhino with EA, and well worth the difference.

 

But much MUCH more importantly, I have to echo madame inquisitor NicolePyykkonen. This is advice I give to every new player, and it seems to universally lead to good results. Let her pick what she wants, whatever her reasons, and she'll have fun playing with it. It might not win all the time, but as a new player that's probably the way it's going to be no matter what. But she'll be having fun and learning all the while, and she will slowly progress as a player, and pick up new units that she thinks will complement her existing forces well, and her army and strategies will grow from there.

 

From a pure-effectiveness standpoint (so take this with a grain of salt), both Darkhazzel and Melissa have good points. Sisters are excellent when used as a pure-sisters force, because the units will have good synergy and you'll have a nice, deep Faith pool from which to draw. That being said (and me being a daemonhunter player), a DH inquisitor lord with psycannon+shooty retinue+2 mystics is an excellent unit in-and-of itself, can lay down withering amount of fire, and can protect you from deep-strikers (especially if you keep it near an exorcist, to allow either the squad or the tank to shoot at incoming units). So again, either way works, and it's up to personal preference.

 

Edit:: Oh, and welcome to the forum! ;)

[panbient]

In my experience, letting people pick armies based on fluff, which models they like and what appeals to their own personality turns them into Fantastic Generals, who love their own armies and play with pride and success. It's worked for me my entire gaming career, and I've seen it work for numerous other people too. Let her brain pick on it's own, it'll find the right path.

 

i share the same attitude here, but while i have pride in my mixed army of freaks (ultimately the whole thing revolves around penitent engines) the wins are just NOT happening very often haha. i don't mind though, i'd much rather get a ';) is that?!?!?' reaction when fielding my army than a victory handshake at the end of every by the numbers match i steamroll my competition with.

 

pure sister forces have been far more forgiving in my experience when it comes to successful matches, especially in lower point matches. the OP wanted tips on making WH more forgiving, leaving the inquisition on the sidelines is the best way to do that IMO.

 

 

*edit* on 2nd thought. if the OP wants his gf to win a few matches to start off her army why not just throw a few games? let the gf pick her army however she feels like and then keep making the choices that give you a tactical DISadvantage. if she calls you out on it just say you're giving yourself extra challenge as prep for tournament play or something.

[Melissia]

If you want to argue with her going based on preference, then there really is no point of this thread to begin with-- because after all, we certainly can't change her preference. Regardless, however, the question was:

 

Anyone have any suggestions on anything useful for a first-time player who wants to play a WH army, or have a particularly forgiving build for a 1000 or 1500 WH list?

 

So I am mentioning things which are efficient and forgiving.

 

Here is a list that I think might work well:

 

Canoness: BoSL, CoSA, JumpPack, Mantle, Inferno P., Blessed Weapon

 

Battle Sister Squad: 9 Members + Veteran, Meltagun & Heavy Flamer

---Transport: Repressor

---Veteran: BoSL

 

Battle Sister Squad: 9 Members + Veteran, Meltagun & Heavy Flamer

---Transport: Repressor

---Veteran: BoSL

 

Battle Sister Squad: 9 Members + Veteran, Meltagun & Heavy Flamer

---Transport: Repressor

---Veteran: BoSL

 

Seraphim Squad: 7 Members + Veteran, TL Hand Flamers, Meltabombs

---Veteran: Melta Bombs, Bolt P. + Power Weapon, BoSL

 

 

Six heavy flamers, three meltaguns, six Faith Points. THe meltaguns will help ward off walkers, while serious anti-tank duty is relegated to the meltabomb wielding Seraphim. This also allows the Seraphim to be very adaptable, albeit expensive-- they can do excellent anti-infantry duty with their flamers and TLBPs, and are also your assault unit in the army (but don't let them stick around too long, as they aren't too durable-- use their special Hit and Run rule to break away at opportune times). This requires the Imperial Armour FAQ which is posted on their website, but if indeed you are fine with using Imperial Armour, this makes the list quite effective against most army types. THe main problem they'd have is against Necrons, where they would have to just ignore the monolith and attempt to force a phase out by using Divine Guidance at rapid fire range against their warriors.

 

 

If you aren't going to use Imperial Armor, then I'll come up with another list.

[GlauG]

Hmm, the Imperial Armour thing might be a bit of a sticking point, I don't know if people generally use it at my local GW store or not. Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll post when we've played a bit and see how it goes! Melissia, how many points does your sample list weigh in at, roughly? I'll find out tomorrow if people will allow IA or not where we game as well.

 

Also, my GF read the post about throwing games, so I don't think that'd work now. :blush:

[Inquisitor Fox]

Here is a list that I think might work well:

 

*SNIP*

 

Six heavy flamers, three meltaguns, six Faith Points.If you aren't going to use Imperial Armor, then I'll come up with another list.

I'm assuming you meant all those sisters units to be VSS, meltagun, hvy flamer? Otherwise you have no meltaguns in that list :)

 

In terms of a standard troop choice, I've used the following sisters config:

 

10 sisters including: Veteran Sister Superior (VSS) with bolt pistol & power weapon, imagifier, meltagun, heavy flamer. Throw a Book of St Lucius on the VSS. It's worked nicely.

 

Seraphim are fantastic, the variant I like is to have a VSS w/ plasma pistol, power weapon, book of st lucius, then 2 sisters with twin inferno pistols. I tend to have to throw lots of anti-tank choices in infantry because I don't have a lot of tanks myself. I use an close-combat Inquisitor Lord with a Land Raider as a transport as well as more anti-tank for my army list, the land raider is a lot of fun ^_^ Of course I also do things like use my Inquistiorial Storm Troopers and Death Cult Assassins, but that's just me. It works for me and it's fun. Retributors with a VSS with book, 4 heavy bolters, imagifier are kinda fun as well.. throw on an extra body or two, or mount them in an Immolator.

 

The bigger headache is to intentionally throw in lots of anti-tank firepower, because it's easy to have your entire Witch Hunters list then have nothing that can pop cans... *sigh*

 

Edit: Self-edited to fix attrocious punctuation.. what was I thinking?

[Melissia]

Yes, I meant meltagun/heavy flamer, a bit of a mental fart there.

 

 

As for your standard setup, I would never give a standard VSS a power weapon. The pwoer weapons cost 10 points, points better spent elsewhere. She is S3 / WS3 / I3, NOT a spectacular close combat unit. If it were a Seraphim VSS or Celestian VSS, then yes, that might work and I'd support it. For every single one of your Battle Sister Squads to get a power weapon however would bea waste of points.

 

Melissia, how many points does your sample list weigh in at, roughly?

Exactly 1000 points. Also, read the edit, I accidently gave them Flamer / Heavy Flamer instead of Meltagun / Heavy Flamer, sorry about that.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I do it as an insurance mechanism more than anything else. If the unit is stuck in close combat, it needs all the help it can get because I don't want it there to start with. The more of the enemy I can insta-gib without armor saves, the quicker I'm back into shooting range.

 

Even if we look at your standard list, that's 30 points invested in helping get yourself out of combat faster. That is at most 2 sisters. You've already alloted your full choices of special and heavy weapons, you can't add another unit for 30 points, so you're looking at one or two tank upgrades, or said equipment for your veterans. You can remove one Seraphim and now afford power weapons for every VSS you possess. That's worth considering.

 

Some people would rather give their veterans eviscerators, I chose to give them an extra attack focusing on anti-infantry to get out of close combat. To each their own.

[Melissia]

If you are referring to the list I posted above, there is no room for those thirty points of power weapons, because that list is exactly 1000 points. You would have to remove things from that list in order to add those three power weapons on, and quite frankly there is no thing or things that add up to 30 points which you can remove that wouldn't be a better choice than those 3 power weapons to begin with.

[Inquisitor Fox]

In the list above I'd use a different Seraphim unit, which wouldn't be as expensive and would give me more points to free up.

 

Instead of Melissia's, which is definately workable, I'd use the following:

 

VSS + 5 Seraphim, plasma pistol, power weapon, book, 2 sisters w/ twin inferno pistols

 

edit: It's important to note that for the vast majority of tanks, the Seraphim's inherant krak grenades are plenty sufficient since all melee takes place against a tank's rear armor.

 

This frees up an additional 27 points, provides better anti-armor firepower with the inferno pistols being twin linked BS4 and melta to boot, then the plasma pistol complimenting them as well. The 27 points buys two power weapons, for informal games I'd let someone be 3 points over and not bat an eye at it.

 

Also taking into consideration the fact they may not have access to IA2, downgrading the Repressors to Rhinos would also free up additional points (about 15 if I remember right), which means with the 27 points would be a power weapon for each VSS then 12 points left over.

 

Again, there is nothing wrong with the list you're proposing... I'd simply do it differently based on my own preferences.

[Melissia]

Repressors cost the same as non-IA rhinos.

 

That is to say, in C:WH Rhinos cost 50 points.

In IA2, Repressors cost 50 points.

In IA2, Rhinos cost 35 points and come with free smoke and searchlights.

 

You can use the IA2 FAQ to get all the information you need on the Repressor. If you want to use the 35 point rhinos, you still need the IA2 FAQ and so you can still go for Repressors.

 

 

I understand that you are doing it differently based on preferences. I am not arguing for preference, but rather for a forgiving army. My own preferences would be to use a Canoness with Celestian Retinue, but that's not as forgiving given that you would have to give up the seraphim to get it and thus rely upon meltaguns for anti-tank, or remove a battle sister squad and give yourself an exorcist.

[Inquisitor Fox]

My apologies then, I was remembering the Repressor was slightly more expensive but not exactly how much than a Rhino, apparently I was thinking of the older Repressor cost.

 

I wasn't referring to the availability of the IA2 document, as much as that they may not be playing with it. In any event, being able to get 2 and a partial power weapons into the list by altering the Seraphim loadout (which still lets them be hideously effective against armor) helps against a lot of lists, like Necrons or anything with armor saves.

 

I just wanted to suggest some alternative impressions based on my own play experience.

[Melissia]

Twin inferno pistols aren't really "hideously effective" against armor. They have to get within 3" in order to penetrate strong armor, at which point they might as well assault something anyway. They also aren't AP1, and so they don't get the +1 bonus to penetration that meltaguns get. Basicly, a squad with meltabombs is very likely going to get more hits on the vehicle (eight attacks at ws4 versus two TL attacks at BS4) than a squad with TL inferno pistols, and each hit does the same amount of damage-- and thus the meltabombs probably will mean that they get more penetrations as well, due to both of them having the melta rule.

 

Also because fo the reduced squad size, they have four fewer attacks and two fewer wounds, making it more fragile and worse in an assault. I think you'll agree that this makes it not quite as forgiving as the Seraphim squad I posted. Your squad isn't worse than the one I posted no, but IS harder to use.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I think the meltabombs are a bit of overkill in smaller games, and at 4 points per Seraphim, it adds up really quick. Krak grenades should be sufficient along with the inferno pistols for most anything in smaller games. Even removing the power weapons or plasma pistol, having more melta type weapons in a list already populated by 6 heavy flamers seems a better call to me.

 

Eh, either way we can keep discussing this all day, I think there's enough information now for them to make their own call on it :) I'm all done now with this part, we're starting to argue in circles based solely on our own take of things. ^_^

[Melissia]

There is no kill like overkill Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen ^_^