Scouts - Which unit for an all rounder army.

[Cadarn]

Hey all.

 

I come to you in need of advice, and I know of a couple who will likely be able to help, as it is their specialist areas.

 

I am putting together an all comers army and have built up what I believe to be a pretty solid and well rounded 1750 force. However, I find myself with a dilemma. I am taking one unit of five man scouts to act as a wild card. In Objective missions their sole purpose will be to take and hold objectives. In Annihilation missions then they will most likely be outflanking in order to hopefully throw my opponent off guard, possibly getting a shot on rear armour or a back row long range unit.

 

So what I am curious to know is what you would recommend as being the best for this purpose. I have 100 points to spare on this unit, so I can go for a heavy weapon and some cloaks, or power weapon for a CC unit. I'm not too worried about Homing beacons.

 

I throw it open to the floor. What would you suggest. The extra problem I have is that I have plenty of models to represent whichever unit I go with, but I will likely only have time to paint one squad. There have been a lot of good threads about using all scout, or scout heavy forces, but this will be one five man unit.

 

Help me brothers!

[Bosco]

5 scouts, missile launcher, sgt w/ combi-flamer and meltabombs. Rest of the squad with equipped as you prefer. Personally, I like shotguns or bp/ccw for outflanking since getting them into melee combat to prevent being shot-up the following turn is usually a priority, but you might consider bolters if you are more inclined to infiltrate them to hold/deny an objective rather than outflank.

 

Gives you versatility against armor/hordes from a distance as well as up close for the outflanking assault. The meltabombs/combi-flamer combo on the sgt further improves their adaptability against various opponents when outflanking. Don't have the codex in front of me, but I think that should be right at the 100 point mark.

[Bannus]

With take-and-hold and seizing objectives as their primary role, I would kit them out for close combat - BP&CCW or shotguns (mixed) and the Sergeant with a power weapon/fist.

[Vel'Cona]

Well, barring a LSS for them to ride in, a five man unit outflanking could be really nasty if you give the Sergeant a Combi-Melta. If you plan to grab objectives or go for rear armor snipes in this way, Bolters are probably your best choice, though anything you can hurt with them you can also assault and beat on with CCWs, so BP+CCW might work better. A ML is also a solid option if you have any intention of them doing anything useful. I would avoid SR and suggest avoiding the cost in Camo Cloaks, because if you Outflank them close to enemy units it's likely they'll be eating Heavy Flamers or caught in CC where they'll get beat up in short order if the game doesn't end soon.

[Jackelope King]

The only time I've ever really been able to use Scouts as a wildcard was as a five-man shotgun squad in a Land Speeder Storm. The squad had the option of scooting around the table, hitting units with drive-by shotgun shots and the LSS's heavy flamer. The LSS also gave me the option of flying all-out on turn 5 to claim an objective with a unit that would be extremely annoying to take out. It could also outflank or deep strike.

 

However, even with a bare-bones scout squad and no heavy flamer, this is still at least 25 points out of your budget.

 

If your metagame features a lot of "sit back and shoot" vehicles, I'd probably consider a squad with shotguns, meltabombs on the sergeant and a missile launcher to provide the threat of popping anything your opponent leaves too close to the table edge (remember that assaults against vehicles hit rear armor, and a meltabomb with four krak grenade attacks are likely to kill most vehicles dead). This will force your opponent to deploy vehicles near the center of the board. If by some miracle your suicide squad lives after taking out a tank, the missile launcher will allow them to threaten the rear and side armor of other tanks in the area, though honestly not very much. BS3 makes anti-tank weapons really unreliable in the hands of scouts. Still, it's a threat to lighter vehicles.

 

Bolters instead of shotguns are another option, and definitely nastier against lighter armored foes (so if you fight a lot of guard or orks, you might consider this option). However, the advantage of shotguns is that you get two free shots from your unit before assaulting, and if you're hitting tanks, you still have a 1 in 6 chance to glance (though with a shotgun, the best you can hope for is a "Weapon destroyed" result). By and large, the meat of your damage will come from assaulting the vehicle with the meltabomb. The shotguns are only really beneficial afterwards if you then use the unit of scouts to try to sweep a very badly damaged enemy unit off of an objective. Shotgun scouts assault better than CCW scouts during the first round of combat, and you really, really don't want them getting stuck in.

 

On the other hand, if your metagame is light on vehicles, outflanking scouts aren't going to do a whole lot. They deal less damage than a Tactical Squad to most infantry. If this is how you'd want to use them, take all shotguns and either a power fist / shotgun for the sergeant (my personal favorite configuration, if only because the model I use for this reminds me a lot of Clint Eastwood) or a sergeant with a combi-flamer. The flamer is going to be your main source of kills against most light infantry, along with 8 shotgun shots. The former sergeant (with a shotgun and power fist) allows the squad to threaten anything (up to and including big brutes like Tyranid MCs and dreadnoughts), but Scouts aren't that tough, and they'll go down quickly in close combat. If you err on the side of the flamer, you lose the ability to deal with MCs and dreads, but are more likely to be able to deal more damage and survive longer (because the fewer attacks that are being made against your 4+ save scouts, the better they'll do).

 

So the best of both worlds would let you, well, do both. For 100 points, you can take a sergeant with a combi-flamer and meltabombs, a missile launcher scout, and three shotgun scouts. This unit has some options, even if it outflanks onto the wrong side of the table (assuming you can get to line of sight, one extra 50/50 missile shot per turn means the unit can at least contribute something, however minimal). If they come in near a vehicle, the sergeant can stick a meltabomb on the rear of it and probably blow it up. If they're going to be hitting light infantry, the flamer and shotguns will let them deal some damage on the charge.

 

Again, these guys probably won't win anything by themselves. You'll need to coordinate so that they do their work alongside a squad of Sternguard who just softened up an enemy unit, or join in an assault with an assault squad. And their durability is pretty pitiful, especially if they get assaulted.

[greatcrusade08]

Theres not much i can add that JK hasnt already suggested, but i throw in my vote to shotties, meltabombs and a combi-flamer as a must on 5 man squad..

 

Forget a fist on 5 man squad, its just not worth it, they may not survive long enough to use it. Since meltabombs are pretty good vs armour and only 5 points, you would be stoopid not to use them!

 

Thats 90 points, if you wanted to run a heavy weapon, id suggest a heavy bolter... if your taking the scouts for anti-tank, then you want to use the meltabombs/krak grenades over ML its far more effecient. Plus the extra shots from the heavy bolter make up for the lower BS..

 

GC08

[ShinyRhino]

Personally, I'd avoid the powerfist on the sergeant in favor of a power weapon instead. With only five men, you NEED to hit at I4. You'll simply take too many hits on a 5-man squad for that powerfist to get its attacks in, unless you're assaulting a vehicle, and then the meltabomb works better in that situation.

 

I'd go with a sergeant with powersword/meltabombs, three shotgun scouts, and a missile launcher.

[Cadarn]

Cheers for the input guys. With only 100 points, I can't take fists, nor can I take the Melta and the Power weapon.

 

While I could shave points off elsewhere in the list, I really want to keep this unti cheap as they will either be suicide or will be keeping their heads down covering an objective

 

I'm thinking of giving them Camo cloaks and a Missile Launcher. Bolters for the chaps and 2 cc for the Sarg. Basically very vanilla. On objective games they can hunker down on the objective, which is usually in cover and benefit from a +1 for the cloaks and a further +1 if I have them go to ground. Won't do much good against template and blast, but I'll have to use the rest of the army to deal with them. If I do outflank them, I expect them to be more of a distraction than anything else. With a bit of luck they might pop a tank or two. Won't do much against a land raider or Monolith, but anything else will have to watch its back.

[Brother Icipher]

As has been noted, the loadout you use depends very much on what you want them to do. If you just want them to outflank and then capture objectives late in the game (which is what I use mine for), then just giving them fairly basic guns and camo cloaks can be an effective way to run them. They're unlikely to be able to kill much of anything, but if they are in good cover, they will be a real pain in the behind for the opponent to dislodge if they're occupying a table quarter or other vital objective. I like to park mine in some nice hard cover and then do absolutely nothing with them for most of the game. Its amazing how often people will forget about a unit that is just sitting there not doing anything. Then, in the last couple of turns, they can pop out and grab a vital objective.

[Guardian of the Rage]

I feel that it very much depends on the composition of the rest of the army. They are a troops choice, thus they can objectives (obviously). A lot of players locally like to use marines for what i call a kind of first and second turn 'dump' onto the enemy, i.e. get forward quickly to isolate part of the opposing army (using drop pods, bikes, rhinos, jumppack and GoI with librarian).

 

If that is your bent, then i strongly suggest the 5 snipers with Camo cloak (and preferably a heavy bolter/ML if you can squease it out). 2/3 missions involve objectives and one of those always involves plonking at least one in the deployment zone; with everything else advancing these guys can hold it and have the same save as a marine if in cover. I should point out that return fire is rare in this case, opposing players tend to concentrate on the 40+ marines banging on the front door, rather than worry about 5 scouts at the back, even if they are on an objective.

 

One tactic that i have seen used well, but is not common, is to use them as first turn tank hunters (probably because scout bikes are better at this). Take melta bombs or a powerfist and infiltrate the squad 13'' from an enemy vehicle (this is the tricky bit because you have to be out of LOS, terrain might not be agreeable) use the scout move and move and assault the vehicle (obviously only if you actually get first turn!!!!). It has not moved so auto hit, even with Kraks against a possible Rear armour of 10. Provided that the vehicle cost 100+ points, most players would agree it is worth it.

 

If you like to sit back, then the outflankers are for you. People have already talked about them above. One last possibility is to use them as bait. A bit of a tau approach bit still, a fellow gamer at the LGS likes to do this. To me it seems essential that the squad has menacing weapons, thus the heavy is essential. Infiltrate them and position other units with LOS to their position. Shoot or charge whatever comes after them. He uses this well against assault based armies.

 

I hope that is of some use,

 

Kind Regards,

GotR

[Cadarn]

Very much so. There is one other aspect I haven't mentioned yet, and that is the narrative one. A sick twisted little part of me wants to take bolters, a Missile, and a sniper rifle. Mixing in a sniper like this is really not tactically effective, but the idea of a small unit of what are effectively commandos, without a sniper seems... somehow wrong. I've seen Navy Seals. I know how it works. <_<

[Brother Icipher]

I've seen Navy Seals. I know how it works. ;)

Just don't model one of them as Charlie Sheen... Please. Don't. :blink:

[Sethis]

I laughed when I first saw the scouts with snipers box. Can just imagine:

 

Sergeant: "Right boys, let's go, gotta take out 5 sentries so we can raid this ammo dump. Jim; go North, Bob; go South, I'll take the tower guard, Sam and Timmy on the door guards. Go in exactly 4 minutes"

 

4 mins later...

 

*snipe*

*snipe*

*snipe*

*snipe*

*WHOOOOOSH-NEEEEOOOOAAAAAWWWW- BADABOOOOOOM"

 

(Over the headset): "Timmy, what have we told you about the missile launcher?"

Timmy: "It's not subtle?"

Sergeant: "SO WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING THE DAMN THING???"

[Grey Mage]

That hilarity asside, I say go for cloaks, 4x Snipers, and a missile Launcher. Its a good fire support squad thats good against monstrous creatures and other tough guys out there, while the ML will give you a small boost to your AT firepower... wich is never a bad thing right?