Captain Caudronus Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hello hello, Thanks for those who gave me input into my first Space Marine army list. I myself am not too bothered about having a really competitive list, just one that when played well can be reasonably effective. However, the tournament scene does interest me - particularly the lists fielded at the 40k Grand Tournament. How are Space Marines doing in the rankings since the new codex has come out? Is there a common theme/look to a sucessful Space Marines army list or does it depend mainly on the player? Being a long time Fantasy player I know there are some nasty (generic) lists out there for some armies that are lethal in the hands of all but the most unskilled player. P.S. If anyone knows any links to the results of the Grand Tournaments I would be most grateful. I remember when GW published the full results of the GT finals including the army lists of the top three armies. Also as an aside I really think in White Dwarf they should publish some battle reports involving players of the highest calibre instead of turning each battle report into a poorly written narrative played by staff members... "And the Chaos Lord, fire burning in his eyes, raised his axe of khorne above his head and with one mighty blow severed the Mage's head from his body" etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadarn Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Alas, the reports these days focus more on the pretty pictures with some random summaries. I find them rather awkward to follow. I used to love the old reports. Detailed breakdown of what was happening with a nice balance between game descriptions and flavour text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 An interesting topic, to be sure. Not sure if it belongs in the Tactic section but I suppose it IS a discussion of current "tourny level" power tactics so maybe we're ok. I actually did a quick search of GT results of this year, and found a bunch of info regarding Golden Daemons (yay painters!) but not much about the competitive edge of 40k. Guess that should tell everyone where GW's focus is. That aside, I would say C:SM is currently an upper-middle codex overall. It's actually a very balanced codex, with very many good choices and a large variety of lists available (which is awesome!), but doesn't have as powerful "generic" builds as CSM and Orks. Generally, I would say C:SM is probably the standard of judgement that other codexes are held against; if a list is significantly stronger than C:SM, it is a "power army," and if it is much weaker, it is "gimped." In terms of power builds, Pedro Kantor SG DP lists are pretty good in metagame for dealing with other MEQ and Eldar armies, though the new IG looks to upset armies depending heavily on DS or Outflank. Biker Captain lists are generally considered very good for take-all-comers style, especially in Objective based missions. There are also several power builds centered around Vulkan He'stan (especially with SoB allies BOO HISS) and Shrike. I would say in general that power creep is not nearly as bad in WH40k as it is in WHFB, especially when you consider some of the most recent WHFB armies (Chaos Daemons and Vampire Counts come to mind). To be fair, 40k has much more simplified rules and a much smaller army base (compare 11 armies in 40k to the 15 in WHFB), not to mention less total unit choices overall. I suppose the summary of this diatribe would be that C:SM are generally a balanced list that holds its own against all but the most uber-streamlined tourny builds, and ranks middle of the pack in power builds. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Ahhh just wrote out everthing only for the lap top to go funny :mellow: Ohh well First up if you mean the UKGT you can find the result by here http://warhammerworld.typepad.com/warhamme...ews/events.html Bare in mind that the new codex Space Marines where use from Heat 2 onword due to the Marine codex not being out a full month when Heat 1 happen. As for doing well, it all come down to the player really, how well they know there army from there strength & weakness as well as how would they destroy there own army in games. However people also need to bear in mind that 08 was just the first session of 5th Ed & people might have made some mistake, but come this session we should see thing improving in term of 5th Ed/rules. It like Chaos Space Marines in 2007, Heat 2/3 they did not do well I belive & where rarely taken. But this year they done pretty good, winning a few heats, etc... As said just come down to know them & getting use to the army. It like people slated codex Dark Angels when the new current marine codex came out, yet the memeber of these fourm Darkangeldentist came 2nd overall with a Double Win list. Again just come down to how people use said army & also just getting use to the 5th Ed rules. Tournament in WD, yes I agree with you in ever way. For me there a lot of cool armies there & just be good to see, given further idea for conversion or inspir to collect a army like theres. Just a lot cool armies. Also I just enjoy reading tournament report. Just wish there was more as two year ago? WD starting adding in report that the back of the page as well as showing some cool models (like last year Standard Bearer about the GT Double in Nottingham had a cool Deathwatch Marine force allie with Own Ress (sp) Dark Angels, then it also shown some nice chaos space marines). IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree 100% with you Insane Psychopath. Last season was too early to tell whether Space Marines can do well. I am going to heat 1 this year and am taking Space Marines so we shall see how it goes. I am quietly confident. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I did a pretty detailed report on tournie tiers and metagames. While its out of date a bit now, most of it still holds true. Namely, I feel space marines are tier 2. Tier 2 armies are competetive tourney armies, but they are not as good as tier 1.5 or tier 1. If I had to redo my tourney tier system, the tier 1 armies would still be Chaos twin lash and orks--though I am not sure which ork build anymore. Where space marines shine is not their mathhammer or playability (my factors for tournie tiers) but in their metagame matchups. It is possible for space marines to adequetly metagame for vehicles, horde, assault, anti-psyker, and decisiveness, all in the same army. Most other armies are weak versus a few metagame matchups, but marines can be very, VERY consistant versus everything. However, such a marine build can seem to be underwhelming at a glance, and I postulate that many players pick 'harder' appearing armies (cough Daemons cough Nob Bikers cough dual lash) thus why you dont see many great marine armies. Basicly, if many of the top players have access to multiple armies (they do) many will play what they feel is the hardest army to beat--hence the explosion of daemon armies at many of the tournies I have been to lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoby Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I feel one of marines biggest problems is that they are the most popular army especially with beginners, people see potentially competitive lists fail due to them not being used correctly, or they learn how to react to certain units to overcome their strengths. Like has already been said, Kantor + SG in drop pods, Vulcan, or bike commander lists can all be very nasty, there are other combinations that can be just as nasty. Lysander with sternguard either in a drop pod or with a gate librarian, the re-rolls add extra power to this "suicide" squad, and a much needed kick in combat, and if the rest of the armies anti tank units fail, he can dettach and go tank hunting. Shrike seems to be overlooked too, taking him with an assault terminator squad allows them to infiltrate and fleet making first turn assaults possible, any assault marines/JP vanguard/bikes also have up to 24" charge range. I've yet to even see Shrike being used but I imagine the right list could be devestating (Shrike + bike commander + assault termies springs to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 We've been talking about Vulkan lists with SoB allies. Seems like it could be an extremely nasty tournament list. Also, a pure Vulkan list took 3rd in the Adepticon gladiator this year...without the use of superheavies or fliers. Only army to place top 3 without either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Do you know what was in that Vulkan list that took 3rd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duce Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'm also keen to see some Comp marine lists. and would love to see that Vulkan one if you know it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caudronus Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 I would aslo like to see the Vulcan list if anyone knows it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VariableBob Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Found it (I think) here Heresy Online. To quote from the first post: Now, I am not entirely sure, but AFAIK this list is the best placing list in any major tournaments for vanilla space marines against some of the hardest competition out there. A lot of you have been poo-pooing space marines in 5th ed. There are definitely lists and tactics that work, and a lot that don't work. This is the 3rd place winner in the Gladiator Tournament at Adepticon 2009. It was the only list to come in the top 3 with out the use of any super heavies. Before you say "oh, these players must have sucked if they got beat by marines!", you are wrong. The best players in the states come to this event, and participants included Fly Lords of Terra (the bell of lost souls guys), and many other excellent players. Here is his list, and what he played against in his own words. Quote: Adepticon Gladiator 2009 Third Place Overall Opponents: Round 1: Played Big Red of the FlyLords. (bell of lost souls) Reaver Titan, imperial guard, 2 inquisitors, 2 fliers. (almost identical to the list that ended up winning) outcome: Minor Victory Round 2: Mech Eldar, usual list with Eldrad, tons of waveserpents with firedragons and dire avengers, 3 wraithlords. Outcome: Major Victory, maximum vp's Round 3: Duel Lash chaos marines, lots of noise marines, some plague marines as well. Outcome: Major Victory, maximum vp's Round 4: Nidzilla, same as always, 6 carnifexes, two hive tyrants, the rest genestealers. Outcome: Major Victory, two under maximum vp's All in all I missed 14 of the possible points, came in four points behind the guy in 2nd, and 12 points behind the guy in first. My list: Vulkan He’Stan 190 Inquisitor Lord: emperors tarot, sanctuary, psychic hood, 3 warriors with flamers, 2 mystics, bolter, krak grenades 155 Tac Squad 1: missile launcher, flamer 170 Rhino 35 Tac Squad 2: lascannon, flamer 180 Rhino 35 Tac Squad 3: Multi-Melta, flamer, powerfist, combi-flamer 205 Rhino 35 5 Scout marines: sgt with combi-flamer Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, storm bolter 105 Dreadnought: Multi-Melta, storm bolter 105 Assault Terminators:TH, SS 200 3 attack bikes multi-meltas 150 Land Speeder Storm: hvy flamer 60 Land Raider Redeemer: multi-melta extra armor 265 Land Raider: multi-melta, extra armor 275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.