Flyer Rule Help Please!

[Sonic Para]

I'm grabbing a Barracuda and a Nightwing for a pair of birthdays in an effort to expand our 40K games, and I need some clarifications on the rules.

 

Anti-Aircraft Mount (and lack thereof)-

I know that this allows the weapon to be fired at aircraft using the firer's BS instead of the hit-on-6 deal. What I'm wondering is if the AA mounted weapon (Barracuda's Ion Cannon) can fire at ground units as well. Having that AA Mount on the Ion Cannon is definitely a huge bonus for shooting at the Nightwing and my own Thunderhawk, but if the Barracuda survives, is it limited to missiles and burst cannons for the rest of the game?

 

Dogfighting-

What about dogfighting using weapons that aren't AA mounted? Example time! Say it is my turn, and my Thunderhawk is on the board. If I target the Barracuda or the Nightwing, do I hit with the Lascannons and Heavy Bolters on a roll of 3+ (BS 4) or, since they don't have an AA mount, do they hit on a roll of 6?

 

Eldar Nightwing-

My issue with the Nightwing is its ability to be used as a transport. The GW release of Apocalypse has the Nightwing listed without a transport capacity while the AB40Kv5 data file for Army Builder has the Nightwing as a 6 person transport. I think, for the sake of our games and due to the seemingly unnecessarily high point cost, that we will play it as having the 6 person transport but for when we play at game shops or a Battle Bunker, it would be nice to know the legit rule on this.

 

Jump Infantry Drops-

According to GW's Apocalypse book, you treat Jump Infantry Drops from a flying transport as a bombing run but you also have to roll for deviation as if it was a deep strike. Is this correct? If it is, are Jump Infantry Drops effectively just a way to get around the reserves roll for a deep strike? Since these drops are described as units using their packs to jump out of a low flying transport, I think it would make more sense for no deviation or maybe just D6 seeing as how they are jumping out close to ground.

 

Also, can the flying transport still fire weapons? The disembarking units are placed during the shooting phase but they effectively jumped during the movement phase. Does this free the flyer up to fire its weapons?

[Cypher 102]

Anti aircraft weapons on fliers have no restriction on what they can fire at, so yes they can fire on ground troops. The only thing anti aircraft mounts do for you is allow you to use your own ballistic skill. Note that weapons with AA mounts will still reduce the range by 12" when firing at fliers even if your firing from another flier.

 

The apocalypse rules for the Nightwing are the most recent so are the official ones. Army Builder is very often wrong or out of date. But in the end, whatever you get your opponent to agree to goes.

 

Yes, keeping jump infantry reserves out of the way until you need them is about the only benefit to dropping them out of a flying transport. Also with just a quick search you'll find any number of threads that have been turned into a lengthy debate as to whether the assault ramp rules for the thunderhawk override the deep strike rules. If so this would allow your jump troops to assault after deep striking.

[Captain Malachi]

Minor note on the deepstriking thing, but fluffwise, assault marines deepstrike by jumping from low flying thunderhawks, in apoc you can just see the 'hawk. :)

[Sonic Para]

Minor note on the deepstriking thing, but fluffwise, assault marines deepstrike by jumping from low flying thunderhawks, in apoc you can just see the 'hawk. :)

 

AH, makes sense.

 

Thanks for the help guys but what about the dogfighting thing? Non-AA mounted Flyer weapons only hit other flyers on a 6?

[Aidoneus]

Yeah, Sonic Para mentioned it very briefly at the end of his first paragraph. Basically, it doesn't matter where you're shooting from; so long as you're shooting at a flyer you hit on 6s, unless you have an AA mount. This is (I think) because flyers are more maneuverable, and can dodge in 3 dimensions, making them harder to hit. I'm also pretty sure some flyers come with AA-mounted guns. I seem to remember either an Ork or an Imperial bomber with AA-mounted heavy bolters/big shootas on the back.

 

[searches...] Oh yeah, here it is. The Imperial Marauder Bomber. Linky

[Grey Mage]

Nightwings are an interceptor fighter... I cant find a single instance they were given a transport capacity. Lesson- dont trust army builder, theyre volunteers with their own ideas of how the rules works and who should get what.

[eyescrossed]

Nightwings are an interceptor fighter... I cant find a single instance they were given a transport capacity. Lesson- dont trust army builder, theyre volunteers with their own ideas of how the rules works and who should get what.

This.

 

Also, even if it DID have a transport capacity, it'd have to tranport Jump Infantry if they wanted to disembark since the Nightwing can't hover. Even then, you'd only be able to fit 3 Jump Infantry in it, as they count as 2 models.

[Grey Mage]

*Sighs* I want a nightwing so badly.... But heres a related question:

 

Eldar Titan Holofields... dont count as a cover or invulnerable save, correct?

[eyescrossed]

*Sighs* I want a nightwing so badly.... But heres a related question:

 

Eldar Titan Holofields... dont count as a cover or invulnerable save, correct?

I don't believe so.

[jeffersonian000]

Last I checked, an Eldar Titan's holofield is an invulnerable save.

 

SJ

[eyescrossed]

Last I checked, an Eldar Titan's holofield is an invulnerable save.

 

SJ

Does it say anywhere it's an Invulnerable save? No. It says it's a 4+ save that can be taken if the vehicle moves.

[Sonic Para]

Just a heads up to other Army Builder users:

 

I noticed that the Nightwing entry was just entered with some of the Night Spinner stat line by accident. It is 12-12-10 BS3 in AB while it should be 10-10-10 BS4. That 6 person transport bit is for the Night Spinner, and was also accidentally added to the Nightwing.

 

You can fix this really easily by downloading ABCreator from the Army Builder site. Use it to open up the AB40Kv5 folder and load up the ia5unit data file. Just click on the Nightwing and you are presented with a page of information. In the bottom left, there is the transport bit. Just click it and click "delete" to get rid of it. On the bottom right, you can see the stat line entries. Just double click on each entry to edit it. Voila!

[Grey Mage]

The ability to edit it on the fly is the other reason I hate, absolutely hate, to see army builder lists- people will take them as gospel and the guy could write in almost anything he wants.

[Seahawk]

That 6 person transport bit is for the Night Spinner

Funny fact: Night Spinners never had transport capacity either. Man, those AB files are all sorts of fail (as usual)...

 

An Eldar Titan Holo-field is neither an invulnerable nor cover save; it's just a saving throw the vehicle gets. Therefore it can't be negated by weapons that ignore invulnerable (psycannons) or cover (templates, nova cannon) saves.

 

Also, can the flying transport still fire weapons? The disembarking units are placed during the shooting phase but they effectively jumped during the movement phase. Does this free the flyer up to fire its weapons?

Yes, the flyer may fire any other weapons it has, as normal.

[Scott-S6]

I'm grabbing a Barracuda and a Nightwing for a pair of birthdays in an effort to expand our 40K games, and I need some clarifications on the rules.

 

You have two birthdays?

[Sonic Para]

Hah! Two of my friends (brothers no less) have birthdays within a week of each other, so I'm grabbing these fliers as gifts for them. Cool gift AND should make our games more interesting, Win Win!

 

Also, the Night Spinner does have a transport capacity of 6. The most recent rules for it are in Imperial Armour Update 2006 (although Imperial Armour Apocalypse has the transport listed too) and it has a transport capacity of six models but it is oddly in the special rules section instead of where it typically is.

 

As for AB being open to edit, I don't see why that would be a problem amongst friends. Tournaments of course should be by the book but if someone has to edit AB files and cheat during a game with friends...well they won't have many friends left to play against.

[Grey Mage]

Hah! Two of my friends (brothers no less) have birthdays within a week of each other, so I'm grabbing these fliers as gifts for them. Cool gift AND should make our games more interesting, Win Win!

 

Also, the Night Spinner does have a transport capacity of 6. The most recent rules for it are in Imperial Armour Update 2006 (although Imperial Armour Apocalypse has the transport listed too) and it has a transport capacity of six models but it is oddly in the special rules section instead of where it typically is.

 

As for AB being open to edit, I don't see why that would be a problem amongst friends. Tournaments of course should be by the book but if someone has to edit AB files and cheat during a game with friends...well they won't have many friends left to play against.

Oi, and of course gaming with friends I wouldnt expect such... but at tournaments Ive encounter really good players and absolute slime. *Shrugs*. Night Spinners do have a transport capacity of six, just like a falcon *their guns really arent so impressive they deserve to take up more space you know* and have for the last couple imperial armors that Ive known of. I dont recall them having it in epic though, but *shrugs*.

 

Please, let me know how the flyers affect your game, Im rather curious.