Furious Charge and Counter-Attack

[Master Vandor]

Greetings everyone. So I did a search to see if this was brought up already but couldn't find anything.

 

The question is pretty simple: "Do the effects of Furious Charge and Counter-Attack stack?" i.e. A unit gets assaulted, passes its Ld test, counter-attacks with +1 attack and the benefits of furious charge. This has never really been an issue in the past because few (if any) units had both abilities, but with the new IG and characters like Straken it becomes a legit question. Personally I do not believe that the abilities stack since the RAW says (paraphrased) "on the assault" for FC and "gains +1 attack as if the unit were charging" for CA. I can see wiggle room here for other interpretations and I just want to see what the consensus of the community is.

 

Thoughts? :D

[JamesI]

No, because you are not charging.

[eyescrossed]

You count as charging, so I see no reason that FC wouldn't kick off. Berserk Charge for us Wolves works, so I'd say yes. However, I'd go as far as to say you get the FC bonus even if you don't pass the CA test.

You don't count as charging, you "Gain an extra attack exactly as if you had charged". It doesn't say you count as charging, it says you get an extra attack as if you WERE charging.

[LPetersson]

Eyescrossed got it spot on here. It's essentially down to the wording which is why CC and FC don't stack but CC and BC does...

[eyescrossed]

BC?

[Bran Scalphunter]

Berserk Charge... and I messed up. I was going by the old CA rules in the C:SW. Ignore me, I is babbling.

[Master Vandor]

Thanks for the support of my interpretation. It's nice to see that not everything in the guard dex is totally broken (in an explotive way)

;)

[KMKhaine]

Possibly digging up an old post... I'm going to do it anyway.

 

eyecrossed didn't get the actual wording right. It actually says more to the point of (damn, my book is at home but it is damn close to or exactly) "... unit gets +1 attack bonus, as it that unit itself had assaulted". Most units only get a +1A when they assault.

Say, blood claws not only get their +1A they get +2 when they 'count as' assaulting, so upcoming Space Wolves (Blood Claws) with a priest would get CC with litanies of hate (more than likely) so when they CC - assuming they pass the LD test they would count as if the unit itself had assaulted, thus they would get +2A and re-roll hits (sick, yes, but right, yes). The same for Straken, it makes someone actually think twice before charging.

 

Why would you think BC would work and not FC? I could possibly think one way (no bonuses besides +1A) or the other (units count as if that unit had also assaulted, which is RAW) but certainly not a little of both.

[Grey Mage]

No... no litanies of hate with counterattack- as thats not a bonus attack, its an ability that triggers when you charge.

 

Only abilities like beserker charge that actually change the number of bonuses you get when you assault are used in conjunction with counterattack- like true grit, wich doesnt allow you to receive a charge bonus.

 

No litanies, no furious charge, nada.