How do I beat Orks?

[Moress]

Hey all,

 

I don't have alot of experience fighting against orks, but every once in a blue moon when I play them, I get my ass handed to me. It jsut feels like there so many of them, and they move across the board so damn fast, and when they get out or you blow up the trukks, they all have 4+ cover saves. Ontop of that I see the ocasional Nob Bikers (Not two, just a medium sized unit), and lots of Loota's. The Loota's do a number on anything that isn't a Land Raider, and the Nob Bikers quickly outflank my shooty units or the units that just hoped out of a thrashed rhino (curtosey of the loota's) and utterly destroy them.

 

I'm not sure what to use, Daemon Prince? Lords with Slaneesh DW?

 

So far I've had success with Berzerkers and 2xflamer with PW squad in a rhino (I only can run one of each). I run a rather undivided Iron Warriors list, so other then berzerkers most cult troops are out.

 

I found Termies to be rather meh, unless your running combi flamer and heavy flamer, but then they get rapped in CC, especially by bikers.

 

What can I do and what units should I take?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edit: Here is a link to the two army lists I'm debating on using against Orks.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=169729

[Draeden]

Generally from what I've observed and played against horde armies, your best bet is blast weapons... I'd say toss in a few Obliterators into your army and try plascannons, maybe a defiler too, as their battlecannons can really do a number on their vehicles with its 72" range... keeping you mostly out of their weapon ranges until you're ready to fight them...

 

Though I don't really have much experience fighting Horde armies, and have never fought Orkz so I can't offer much more than that...

[Moress]

I have a single Defiler, and it's good against the trukks/buggies, but against the infantry it's kinda meh because a group of 20 boyz will get a cover save since only 10 have to be in cover.

 

Vindies are much worse since they have to be upclose and personal and Loota's reap carnage on there horrible side armor, plus Orks in CC tend to tear tanks up since they're hitting the rear armor. The defiler tends to fair a little better over vindies.

 

I have 3xOblits, but I'm not sure how well they will do versus orks since if they get charged, they're kinda done for.

[Zhukov]

Blast templates arent that great, especially when they got a cover save. Against big mobs of orks best thing to do is breaking them in combat. Both berzerkers and plague marines excell in this. Double flamer equiped Plague squads do very well then of course. Obliterators for trucks, and lootas (just inflict some numbers with plasma canon, they have a sucky leadership and quickly lose effectiviness).

 

Nob bikers without lash: some lasscanon shots from Oblits for some wounds. Princes do still pretty well if they arent too high anymore on numers. So first weaken the squad up and try to charge it with 2 princes and/or a berzerker squad at once. I would say do some math for this to know when you can charge with what. My standard tourney builds tend to do well against them.

[Corpse.]

You can have 1 marine for every 2.5 orks sent your way. You occupy 1 space (25mm) per marine. Abuse it....

 

If he has to mob and horde, back into a tight space (against a table edge) and shoot him up. Your horde versus his horde, he wont win in melee no matter what he uses. Contrary to the belief of nob bikers, you need powerfists to counter those. If he cant send in 2.5 orks for every 1 marine in one space, you own that space.

 

Last I checked most cult troops carry their weight in orks just by being specialists. (maybe not thousand sons, they do well against 4+ save orks though)

 

Dont deploy as close as possible. Dont let him catch your units away from one another. Dont let him bear his numbers, if you know melee is immenent, thin out what will charge you. Because more often, they rely on melee to win the game. Not shooting.

 

Two bolters are the same as a lascannon against an ork, and you can have 3 bolters for the cost of one lascannon on average. You dont need to worry about their non-tank trukks, just their battlewagons if they use deffrollas. Otherwise if they have their pie plates, they can be easy to get rid of, so missile launchers are the better choice.

 

On average people dont specialise against their enemies for every game, so get creative with tank shocking and blocking his units with your transports (preferably empty or have flamers inside). You would be amazed how well they can do as terrain in the middle of the field, forcing terrain rolls.

 

General Tactics has a few tips on tank uses against hordes and blast weapon perks inside my signature, you may also want to take a look at the Elements link as well for water style tips.

[harvarn]

fighting horde orks on a weekly basis has taught me 2 counters for hordes.

 

For those huge 30 men mob sending a 8 men berserker squad actually does some serious damage to them. For instance in one game the 8 berserkers took out 21 orks and another 6 more armour saves from losing combat. HOWEVER! saying that you should thin them down with gun fire prior to assaulting them.

 

Even your basic csm could do the trick if you plan the timing right 27 S4 attacks on charge and 4 more from AC + 8 bolt pistols and a flamer will thin a horde quite a bit.

 

Another way of using lash is not just for oblits to target from afar(can but for me most of the time the cover save makes plasmas less useful) but having a havoc firemen of doom squad... for 130pts you can have a 5men 4 flamers in rhino which you can use lash, to lash a squad bunch up for them to flame. 4 flamers even VS that annoying FNP squad will thin them down by a lot. Ive burn 30 orks by lashing them into a clump and flame them with 4 flamers with lot of dice to spare.

 

Unfortunately if they have that character that gives FNP to a Nob or a bike squad then it gets harder. And you might need to focus fire them

 

I strongly advice against playing shooty vs Orks esp at long range, we lack the firepower or the numbers to effectively thin them down from afar. From my past weekly games it does show for us CSM getting between 6" to 0" of the enemy is our most effective way to take them out.

 

Blast templates seems to be an obvious solution but with scatter and having 5-6 shots of various template sizes you hardly will kill 30 orks in a turn. In fact most ppl carry lootas and funny enough even at low BS they have more firepower than we can lash out at them, so fighting them at far is totally out of the question. + those heli will make short work of your backliners a.e defilers, vindi, etc...

 

With that said my army is a rhino rush army and i tend to focus on particular flanks of the mob so positioning in Deployment phase does need some simple thinking... basic rule for me is dont spread ur csm force to much, supposedly to counter their huge spread of bodies from table to table edge, have a battle plan in mind and ur units close enough to support one another vs a more larger force... ive use this vs IG, Mech IG, nids etc. Focusing on a flank will deny those orks on foot on the far edge of the table time to come to you leaving you with slightly more breathing space. Time your strike right taking out 60-80 orks vs short range bolter/flame and lots of cc will turn it for you in a turn.

 

As far as objectives is concern if you can hold one and contest the other two till end game you should be ok. If you have bikes or raptors T6 jumping to contest an objective could help your odds

[killersquid]

I say, no matter what happens. Make sure your the one getting the charge. Orks are infinitively crappier if they get charged and loose all their furious charge bonuses. Thus, if you know that one of your squads is going to get charged, try and make sure your the one getting the charge off, then you'll get the bonus attacks and his basic orks will be S3 instead of S4. Worst thing to do would be to rapid fire and then take the charge. Terrible, terrible. Orks are most devastating when they charge and are pretty iffy all the other times in combat, so be sure to use that agaisnt them.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

When I battle orks with my tournament list

 

Daemon Prince, wing

2x 4 Termies w/Combi Plasma

3x 10 Chaos Marines, Heavy Bolter in each, two unit w/Plasma other with Melta, Icon of Glory & power weapon champion

All unit mounted in Rhinos w/Extra Armour

4x Obliterators (2/1/1)

 

When I battle orks, like other say it all about not letting them assault you, but instead you assault them. This is maily in the deplyoment phase that you can count on this.

 

By this I mean a table is usely 6 foot by 4 foot. Since it the usely 4 foot use to space you & the oppent, this is 48 inch.

 

So let see

 

Orks has set up say 12 inch (say pitch battle set up)

 

Turn one will see them move another 6 inch, follow by a run which...well say another 6 inch. So far that been 24 inch in total, bare in mind you set up 12 inch & your 24 inch away from them, so there pretty much half way there.

 

Turn two

 

Orks move another 6 inch, then they call a WAAHH & get luck, that been another might 12 inch (as in the WAAHH + normal movment) & then you have there assault on top of that. So that 18 inch in one turn.

 

So in those two turns the orks have 12+ 12+ 18, that has been 42 inch. As said you only got 48 inch for the four foot table. So that leave you roughly six inch worth of breathen space as it where. Since it 48 - 42 = 6

So when I battle orks, I usely set up five inch, it mean if they never fought me before, they will weaste a waaahhhhh pray to the chaos gods that they loss some of there own models by a 1 & will be out by one inch of assault. This mean on my turn I can jump out of the safty of my Rhinos (not move yet) so move, fire my bolt pistol & then assault.

 

Even if the ork player know what I am doing, you'll still be able to assault them.

 

However there is other thing that people will have to bear in mind in the event the Orks don't get a good run or they go through difficult terrain & there dice roll is shcoking.

 

If it a static army, I'd try to use terrien to your advantage.

 

ork Nob biker, let them assault my Rhino that move 12 inch then just jump out my turn & release a storm of Bolter Fire into them follow by my Termioes Combi Plasma if needed, then deal with them in combat with my Daemon Prince & any squads near by or set up in terrain since they will strike last (I don't belive they have any grenades?? unless you upgreade them?)

 

It all about waiting, planing the right moment to strike, send in a extra unit when assaulting a big 30 Mob of Orks, so instead of two unit, send in three to get the job done sooner. Be careful that they can not counter attack you with more boyz or lay trap for you to fall into.

 

Also use Obliterators for the nice Twin Linked Flamer goodness :)

 

But again don't let them assault you, set up five inch from the table side, assault them, don't let them counter attack with other units. Chose the right battle & send in a extra unit to help out.

 

IP

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

This is the one time I would suggest an auto cannon/heavy bolter/havoc launcher pred.

[Muskie]

Bolters...

 

I'm not the best, but besides the MegaNobz/Nobz bikers regular boys don't worry me. In a truck there is only 11 of them and the big mobs... Not letting them get the Waaaggh charge is big.

 

Plaguemarines can take an ork charge, the blight grenades and T5 help. Orks have low Initiative so if you take a Plague Champion with a Powersword it will go before the Nob and his power claw... You should rapid fire and let them charge. You should have one Plaguemarine squad forward to take the charge.

 

Everything else is deployed much deeper and when the orks get bottled up trying to beat down the plaguemarines you can ignore the mob or mobs in combat and pick on everything else.

 

I use Havoc squads, 4 heavy bolters does pretty well against the orks, this year I'm going four autocannons at Astronomic-con Vancouver. Upon hearing all the tournament horror stories about Nob bikers I swapped in a Chosen squad, which against the orks will either flank attack, but more likely will be held in reserve waiting for the uber squad.

 

They then will step forward and give them 4 mealta guns. I know you could do five but I took a heavy weapon too so I could shoot while waiting for the orks to close.

 

Most ork players aren't that great, they either play orks for fun or because it got easy to win with them for a while. You just have to hold your water, wait, wait, wait then charge. Like I said I like to sacrafice one plaguemarine squad, it can be a speed bump. Usually the Ork is so keen to get into hand to hand he doesn't think he can lose, but regular boys take a long time to wipe out plaguemarines. And while his mobs are trying to do that, you can redepoly and pick on whatever you want.

 

Autocannons are also good at taking down trukks, but four in one squad is overkill, so I'd fire at foot sloggers in this hypothetical battle with my Astro army.

 

Give me two weeks and I'll let you know how things turned out.

[DuskRaider]

Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, and Flamers. Get as much firepower into their ranks as you can, they're not very tough at all. If they get that charge in, they'll get their furious charge and ruin your day 9 times out of 10. Flamers are great due to the fact they won't get a cover save, either... so keep that in mind. Try 2 squads of Terminators, either Reapers or Heavy Flamers and then the rest Combi-flamers. Their vehicles are pathetic when it comes to armour, a squad of Berserkers should slag them.