Space Wolves Fans vs. Dark Angels Fans

[whitewolfmxc]

Fluff-wise, I've always taken the feud as a very strong sibling rivalry 40 k style. Yes there are degrees of it from friendly jabs to isolated fire fights.

 

Second edition codex describes the two Primarchs as eventually becoming very close friends after their initial rough start.

And this is what Ive always emphasized. Kind of like LotRs Legolas and Gimli.

 

Exactly what i was thinking XD

[Lord Ragnarok]

I don't hate DA players for no reason, well I don't really hate them either. I just really don't like them mostly cause they're backstabbing, disloyal traitors more interrested in pursuing their own objectives and chasing the "Fallen" than they are in doing their duty to the Emperor or the Imperium. But maybe that's just me...

 

If a large portion of the Space Wolves went traitor, we'd hunt them down with a furious vengeance as well. It just may be quicker sense we can "sniff" them out. :P

[Vash113]

If a large portion of the Space Wolves went traitor, we'd hunt them down with a furious vengeance as well. It just may be quicker sense we can "sniff" them out. :P

 

Ah but at the exclusion of all other duties, even to the extent of betraying every other duty to the Imperium and the Emperor? There are undoubtedly traitor Space Wolves, but we don't wipe out an Imperial planet to cover up their existence or run off from a desperate warzone to hunt down the possibility of just a single one.

 

That's what I personally can't stand about the Dark Angels, the mere thought of the presence of just a single Fallen makes them forgo all other oaths even to the extent of turning against those they are sworn to protect. An oath breaker is an atrocious thing to the Wolves, and whatever way it's looked at the Dark Angels break their oaths, if it had just been the existence of the Fallen fine, that's an old failing. But the frequent oaths broken currently are what irritates me about the Dark Angels fluff and why I had to strip down my Dark Angels when I had an army of them and repaint them as something else.

[JEFF4i]

I don't hate anyone, hate is an incredibly strong emotion that I just cannot associate with something like a tabletop game.

 

However, a friend of mine who really likes Dark Angels and I banter quite a bit. I always defer to the statement, "The Lion was so afraid of Russ after he sucker punched him, that he had to hide in the center of a rock."

[Ryzouken]

When you're ready to turn in your dresses, the Wolves will be ready to make men of you.

 

<_<

[Beef]

Fluff wise I think the rivallry between the chapters is really great. I have never had the oppertunity to fight against DA ever in all my gaming years. (they must have just avoided my SW :P

 

I have fought along side them twice. Once we even did a HQ vHQ before the battle started, Obviously my Lord won against the DA captain but then my Lord was a CC monster whilst the DA captain was just a normal cheap captain. (The DA captain did put up a good fight)

 

My only gripe with DA is not the Lional V Russ thing, its like Vash said its the whole leave everything to chase one fallen marine thing that really annoys me. Plus as a SW I cant stand OAth breakers. But then I dislike any chapter that forgets that the EMP made SM to protect humanity. Any chapters that thinks its SM are worth more than human life I dislike. Hence why I like Sallie fluff and UM fluff (dispite them being smurfs i like that they protect humanity)

 

As for SW being barbaric and viking like and not fitting into the fact that they live in an advanced space age, well the same could be said for the DA being monks in space (thats not very advanced either)

 

 

It will be interesting to see how the DA shape up with the new HH series and how the SW get portrayed. Luckily SW so far have been portrayed well in all the Fuff to date. Yes they like a drink, Yes they can seem barbaric and uncouth but thats fine. Rather that then how the DA have been portrayed in alot of Fluff such as the new HH series and the AOD book. There is confusion still as to how loyal they really are or what really happenend, I guess that appeals to some people hence they play DA.

As for Me I would rather a chapter that does not have such a shrouded history. I like my chapters to have a straight cut story where you know exactly where their loyalties lie.

[Fallen Angel Ezekiel]

I just like the colour green........ :P

[Grey Mage]

I just like the colour green........ :(

 

Ive seen several green space wolf "Celtic Marine" armies... come, join us... forget the dress-y side. ;).

[Fallen Angel Ezekiel]

I just like the colour green........ :)

 

Ive seen several green space wolf "Celtic Marine" armies... come, join us... forget the dress-y side. ;).

 

And be declared a fallen and feel the wrath of my chapter.......No thanks......I prefer the battle cry REPENT FOR TOMORROW YOU DIE!

[Lord Ragnarok]

If a large portion of the Space Wolves went traitor, we'd hunt them down with a furious vengeance as well. It just may be quicker sense we can "sniff" them out. :)

 

Ah but at the exclusion of all other duties, even to the extent of betraying every other duty to the Imperium and the Emperor? There are undoubtedly traitor Space Wolves, but we don't wipe out an Imperial planet to cover up their existence or run off from a desperate warzone to hunt down the possibility of just a single one.

 

That's what I personally can't stand about the Dark Angels, the mere thought of the presence of just a single Fallen makes them forgo all other oaths even to the extent of turning against those they are sworn to protect. An oath breaker is an atrocious thing to the Wolves, and whatever way it's looked at the Dark Angels break their oaths, if it had just been the existence of the Fallen fine, that's an old failing. But the frequent oaths broken currently are what irritates me about the Dark Angels fluff and why I had to strip down my Dark Angels when I had an army of them and repaint them as something else.

 

 

I feel your point. However, also note that if anyone found out about their past, the full force of the imperium would be set against them. They are probably in survivor mode. Getting into character..., yes I would be furious when the DA's ran off when there was a joint effort. But when coming out of character I fully understand the plight and difficult position DA's are in.

 

Likewise if there was a force of the imperium who were about to learn the great depths of the Canis Helix, and the effect it has on us Wolves, as a wolf lord I'd do anything possible to prevent them from escaping with that knowledge.

[Shadow Jester]

it is my beliefe that there are many and varied reasons that the SW and DA armies "hate" each other.

1. the Dark angels have been known to recant upon an oath this seems to be the one thing that epitomizes the SW they will fight continuosly and savegly to retain the honour of name, and chapter possibly even more so than the other chapters. they are willing to slog it out and lose many warriors whom are very very dedicated.

2. DA tend to keep secrets and yet enjoy doing it (reminded of one of the Ragnar novels. eg. the chaplain in it...can't remember his name). the SW apperar to hate the fact they have to keep their secrets they are strained by thier flaw constatly and go to great lengths to prevent the manifestation of mistrust.

3. The original feud between the Lion and Russ after all they did have a deul and both said the other cheated. they did become friends after all. unfortunatly at one point Horus and Sanginius were the closest brothers and look at what happened there or Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus.whom i would like to point out was very much like Russ in the HH series (temper and detemination wise) these were primarchs not just lowly SM whom have been without their wisdom for ages.

 

These are my deductions but are entirly fluff wise i find the way the DA play not to my liking with the exception of the Raven wing i like bikes and land speeders. the players i think dislike the differences in play style who dosen't want to go flying in axe singing with fresh ale in your stomach and more at the feast after the victory??? if you can't tell i play SW and enjoy them i have several other armies all with very differnet play styles including Tau, and 1000suns. thats not to say that DA don't have their strengths my best friend plays DA and he has ripped me a new :cuss plenty of times. bloody termie drops :tu: .. mainly its a fluff thing. all in all i think the people whom "hate" the opposing army are in the vast minority.

[Beef]

I feel your point. However, also note that if anyone found out about their past, the full force of the imperium would be set against them. They are probably in survivor mode. Getting into character..., yes I would be furious when the DA's ran off when there was a joint effort. But when coming out of character I fully understand the plight and difficult position DA's are in.

 

 

Not quite sure I agree with that. YOu see the Lion never went traitor, (unless the new HH series proves otherwise) So I dont see why the Imp would hunt the DA down. Some in the Lions chaoter went renegade but as long as the Lion was loyal why would it be an issue. He would have cleaned house and those traiters that escaped would have been just that, traiters. Other chpaters have traiters to a lesser extent but you dont see them being hunted down. Some chapters who sided with Huron but were loyal to the EMP just had to do a penence crusade. The DA traiters never went against the EMP, it was just internal strife.

[Grey Mage]

Indeed... were still here despite certain trash stories.

[Shadow Jester]

i have heard and this is only hear say is that the DA are actually the fallen and are hunting down the loyalists while i don't believe this it is an idea i have heard that supports why the DA would care so little for their charges.

[reaper88]

I used to play SW but now play DA, Started playing DA because of the fluff and their darker side. Also they are much more flexible in combat. Like whole ravenwing armies and teir ability to outflank. O and Deathwing Termies arn't afraid to teleport!

[OnlyInDeath]

This isnt the first time I've heard someone say that wolves arent flexible in combat....I really dont get that statement, just like how I dont get people that say wolves cant shoot. SW armies can be tailored to suit any purpose, and I would be willing to bet that I could create a SW army that could outshoot a DA army. As far as combat, I dont think you can have a standard troop unit that is MORE flexible than a GH pack, considering the special rules and upgrade options. And yeah, the whole outflank ability w/ ravenwing is cool, but it can also be a hindrance, as your whole army is in reserve. If things dont work out, you can get taken apart piecemeal.

[Grey Mage]

Ahh, but because were like a utility knife many people cant figure out the best use for our troops. I had one guy tell me GHs were worthless... couldnt properly specialize in anything and not as good on the assault as bloodclaws. What the heck was I doing paying 18pts for a bolter marine?

 

Ive shown him by kicking his army out of a few tournaments with flexable tactics.

 

Im told were a "Water Warrior" army. All I know is that I treat my Wolves the same as my eldar- Specialists, who have a few extra cards up their sleeves just in case. All my GH squads are good at CC, but they also have ranged options and I keep them moving tell I find that sweet spot where they can do what I need them to.

[bevulf]

In this moment I could say that they are just savage, future like soldiers with advanced technological weaponry adorned with medieval talismans, animal belts and such stuff that I find don’t suit the warriors of the future. I mean yes they maybe accurate but for feudal worlds that live without technology and such…but I won’t compare them to that because I would reveal myself as a typical DA fan 

 

It is a bit of a misconception to imagine that the talimans, wolf pelts etc are "magic" items which don't belong, in fact the items themselves generally do nothing but rather their presence on the model tells you something about that character. The wolf pelt for example doesn't provide the +1 attack on counterattack, rather the only way a character could gain a wolf pelt is to be skilled at counterattacking, the pelt does nothing, it is just a representation to show the character had that ability anyway. Similarly wolf tooth necklaces don't make you better at hitting in combat, they are only given to Space Wolves who show that ability, again the necklace itself does nothing, it is just that if the character didn't have the ability he wouldn't have been given the necklace.

 

If you look at it from that perspective then they are less a bunch of fantasy items but rather a characterful way of showing which models have special abilities.

 

 

It may be so and that makes sense - you know what guys? i am seriously considering collecting and playing space wolves <_<

[Firenze]

So am I. Both armies rock and a little silbing rivalry makes you play all the harder to win at all costs to your army ;)

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

What I think is interesting about the HH series is that they hint that, to start with at least, those sent back to Caliban with Luther were to good guys - much like the Thousand Sons were using maggick to try and save the Allfather.

 

It will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

[Grey Mage]

Well just because Luther was possessed by a demon doesnt mean the rest of them were... and if had a few cohorts, and they told the garrisson at large that the primary force was a bunch of traitors to the emperor....?

 

I couldnt fault them for attacking their brothers. Luther was put in charge, they trusted him from long service... and if he had the data saying El'Johnsons fleet was a bunch of bastards... well the right thing to do would be to erase them from existance.

 

And if you pop out of the warp 8k years later... well what are you going to do? Id hide while I got my bearings too.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

My badly made point was that in TofH and DofA, it's Lional's DAs who are the bad guys and operating contrary to methods used when the Emperor had led the Crusade. That's why I think that it will be interesting to see how it pans out...

[Grimfoe]

Very simple.

 

Dark Angels = Cross Dressers in Space.

 

Space Wolves = AA meetings in Space.

 

We win.

 

When I saw this thread, I knew Lunchb0x would beat me to it.

 

I can now only confirm that it is the cross dressing we have such disdain for. If you would keep your marines out of dresses, we'd treat you at least as well as we treat the smurfs.

[Fallen Angel Ezekiel]

Well just because Luther was possessed by a demon doesnt mean the rest of them were... and if had a few cohorts, and they told the garrisson at large that the primary force was a bunch of traitors to the emperor....?

 

I couldnt fault them for attacking their brothers. Luther was put in charge, they trusted him from long service... and if he had the data saying El'Johnsons fleet was a bunch of bastards... well the right thing to do would be to erase them from existance.

 

And if you pop out of the warp 8k years later... well what are you going to do? Id hide while I got my bearings too.

 

Any DA marine that was not swaying to Luthers belief's was killed of quietly. The Chaplains were the first to go.

[Vash113]

Any DA marine that was not swaying to Luthers belief's was killed of quietly. The Chaplains were the first to go.

 

According to what material?

 

The newer material from Descent of Angels and Angels of Darkness points towards a different scenario. That Astelan and the other old legion Marines forced to remain on Caliban were restless and wished to fulfill their oaths and rush to Terra to defend the Emperor, but the new Legion Marines wanted to abandon their oaths to the Emperor and wait for the return of Johnson. The conflict between the two wound up in open warfare leaving the Old Legion marines stranded but victorious and suspicious of Johnson, Luthers suspicions and own conflicting feelings allowed him to be manipulated by chaos but a sizeable number of the marines who sided with Luther did so because they thought Johnson had sided with Horus.

 

It will be interresting how the Horus Heresy material pans out but if the indications from the short story in Tales of Heresy are credible it seems likely that Johnson will wind up with a far more negative portrayal than the origional HH material gave him. In fact Fallen Angels, the newest HH book following Descent of Angels even says in it's blurb that the events will cover Johnson's forces conquering planets vital to the Warmaster's plans. Hints of treachery? Seems to be.

 

Oh yes and then there's the dress wearing issue. BUT an even BIGGER issue is that the Dark Angels can't hold their ale. :P