Rules question

[revnow]

What is the mounting of the Grey Knight LRC Multi-Melta? If it's pintle-mounted does it have a 45 degree firing arc or a 360?

[number6]

Pintle-mounting and turret-mounting amount to the same thing: the weapon can swivel around as far as it looks like it should, per the rules in the BRB. Thus, a MM on a LRC will have a 360-degree firing arc.

[Uncle Mel]

not quite, you see pintle mounting has the anti aircraft rule if i'mnot mistaken, making the multi melta extremely dangerous in apoc.

 

Mel

[revnow]

Actually, the BRB says that if a pintle mounted weapon is mounted on the hull it only has a 45 degree firing arc. Only if the pintle mount is mounted on a turret like a Pred or Russ does it have a 360 degree firing arc. That's what confuses me. My gaming group has always played it as 360 degree arc, but another player brought it up last night and I checked the book.

[number6]

Actually, the BRB says that if a pintle mounted weapon is mounted on the hull it only has a 45 degree firing arc. Only if the pintle mount is mounted on a turret like a Pred or Russ does it have a 360 degree firing arc. That's what confuses me. My gaming group has always played it as 360 degree arc, but another player brought it up last night and I checked the book.

I've never had any issues with the MM on my LRC having a full 360-degree arc. It's never even come up. I've always allowed the combi-bolters on Chaos Rhinos and the storm bolters on Loyalist Rhinos to fire 360 degrees as well.

 

Maybe that isn't correct ... but that's the way I've always played it and seen it played. Nobody has ever batted an eye about it.

[ValourousHeart]

Check out the BRB FAQ on GW website... That specific question is addressed on page 2.

[Uncle Mel]

So we've been playing it right, if the gun can see it, it can shoot it.

 

as for my pintle mounted = AA rule, it's on p96 in the apocalypse book.

 

Mel

[revnow]

Awesome! Thank You guys!

[Grey Mage]

So when shooting at flyers you drop 12" off the range... does that mean it always gets 2d6 or never gets 2d6?

[Prathios]

So when shooting at flyers you drop 12" off the range... does that mean it always gets 2d6 or never gets 2d6?

 

You know, as far as I'm concerned if you hit a flyer with a multi melta its pretty much done, just skip the pen roll and blow the sucker up... you hit an aircraft with a multi-melta :huh:

[Inquisitor Fox]

So when shooting at flyers you drop 12" off the range... does that mean it always gets 2d6 or never gets 2d6?

 

You know, as far as I'm concerned if you hit a flyer with a multi melta its pretty much done, just skip the pen roll and blow the sucker up... you hit an aircraft with a multi-melta :blink:

Actually an easier way to consider that rule is to measure the distance to the model as per normal, then add 12" to what the tape measure actually says. They worded it totally retarded and such, and made it deliberately confusing.

 

Technically though, it does make a difference if you reduce the maximum range by 12", or add 12" to the tape measured range with things like a multi-melta with it's half range melta effect.

 

I think though given my understanding of the rules, is this means a flyer is never within the extra +1d6 armor penetration for a multi-melta ever. It does get hit on a regular to hit roll as opposed to on a 6 only though, and being that the multi-melta is strength 8, AP1 on it's own, it's probably a toasted flyer unless it's a super-heavy.

[Uncle Mel]

So when shooting at flyers you drop 12" off the range... does that mean it always gets 2d6 or never gets 2d6?

 

you don't drop the 12" penalty, however you can shoot at normal Bs, instead of hitting on a roll of 6.

 

about the 2d6 or not, this is tricky. the rules say: the weapons max range is reduced by 12"

 

meaning it always gets 2d6, it gets 2d6 within 6" or never gets 2d6.

 

I'm not going to burn myself on this one and afaik it hasn't been faqed either so it'll come down on house ruling.

 

Mel

[Aidoneus]

I agree that a flyer should never be hit by the double-roll melta for being at half range. The whole point of adding 12" to the distance is that the flyer is further away than the model appears. Given its height, it couldn't possibly be close enough to be within half range of a melta weapon.

[Uncle Mel]

The whole point of adding 12" to the distance is that the flyer is further away than the model appears.

that is a bit of a misquoting of the rules, it says specifically reduce the max weapon range, not add 12"to the distance. i discussed this with others and this is what came out:

 

reduce MM range by 12 so it becomes "range:12"

apply "melta" rule, so if flyer is within 6", roll S+2d6 for armour pen.

 

Mel

[Aidoneus]

I didn't mean to be making a RAW argument. I meant to be making a common-sense argument. Normally, I'm all for RAW, but this is Apocalypse, and common sense should trump everything bar the most explicitly-stated rules.

 

Common sense says that the reason you reduce the range by 12" is that the flyer is assumed to be another 12" higher up than it actually is. Thus, your multi-melta will never be within the 12" range to roll the 2 dice for pen. It just makes so much sense, I don't see how you could interpret it any other way. Again, by RAI, because this is Apocalypse.