Counter-Attack Blues.

[Captain Talon]

Tournament today, first player was a nice guy with eldar, not the best player.

 

Mission was capture/hold 5 objectives, with table quarter deployment, none of the objectives could be in your deployment zone.

 

Dawn of War set up.

 

On his left he put 20 guardians with a scatter laser and conceal.

 

On his right he put jetbikes and a farseer.

 

I put on the table a Rune Priest, 8 WG terminators and 2 packs of 14 Blood claws.

 

I move the RP to the left to deal with the jetbikes, and the one pack of Blood claws to deal with the guardians.

 

The guardians eventually got the charge on the claws....No problem I think....Guardians vs Blood Claws in HTH? I'm gonna........roll an 11 on the Counter Attack roll.

 

Then proceed to roll 1's and 2's on my to wound rolls and armor saves...and then break from combat....

 

By the end of the next turn, I had 2 BC's left. <sighs>

 

Next game against World Eaters....He charges me with 10....and I roll.....and 11 comes up again.

 

After 2 turns, I had whittled him down to 1 guy....If only I had had CA the first turn!!!!!!

 

 

Overall 2 great games, and I'm lovin my wolf list....woohoo. But man...those dice rolls....

[Grey Mage]

Ouch. And thats why counter-attack is not overpowered.

[Hfran Morkai]

Yes but counter attack is a relic from the old days whch just allowed more of our guys to fight in combat, but everyone gets that now. When you can roll counter attack its nice but I have a similar problem with my hunters, I'm used to powerfist armed pack leaders always getting 3 attacks as you could use true grit with powerfists and then when I roll for powerfists my opponents like only two dice, and I can't roll for counter attack then.

[Max_Dammit]

Time to change your dice :P

[Hfran Morkai]

Did I mention I offer a dice blessing service for a humble tankard of ale? :tu:

[Bjorn - The Fell Handed]

you should have given all your wolf guard and hero's wolf pelts and put a wolf priest in the BC's, it worked for me when i was playing aainst thousand sons.

[OnlyInDeath]

you should have given all your wolf guard and hero's wolf pelts and put a wolf priest in the BC's, it worked for me when i was playing aainst thousand sons.

 

Pelts still only work if you successfully counterattack, and a priest only has Ld 10, rolling an 11 for ANY unit in the game would be an autofail.

[Bjorn - The Fell Handed]

fine but it generally works against most things.

[Captain Talon]

you should have given all your wolf guard and hero's wolf pelts and put a wolf priest in the BC's, it worked for me when i was playing aainst thousand sons.

 

Pelts still only work if you successfully counterattack, and a priest only has Ld 10, rolling an 11 for ANY unit in the game would be an autofail.

 

You know, I never realized that...

[Captain Talon]

you should have given all your wolf guard and hero's wolf pelts and put a wolf priest in the BC's, it worked for me when i was playing aainst thousand sons.

 

Ahah....my wolfguards were busy protecting the RP. 7 WG's in Terminator armor with stormshields and with runic charms is almost unkillable, and they wiped out half his army, and half the World Eaters army.

[Roguemarine]

and this is why characters lead BC's.....just to help a little, but you can still roll 11's and 12's.

[Max_Dammit]

you should have given all your wolf guard and hero's wolf pelts and put a wolf priest in the BC's, it worked for me when i was playing aainst thousand sons.

 

Pelts still only work if you successfully counterattack, and a priest only has Ld 10, rolling an 11 for ANY unit in the game would be an autofail.

 

 

Sorry but thats not the way i see it

 

Everybody and there mother counterattacks in the 5th ED rules, If you have the ability counterattack, you get a +1 when you make your LD, All units counter atack, even the one that dont have to move so you get the +1 for the pelt (move or no move) AND the +1 if you make the LD test, even if not moving.

[Captain Talon]

I was thinking the same thing, but in the main rules, the move in by the defenders is never called counter attack. Wolf Pelts only apply when your unit counter attacks, which is when you make that Leadership check.

[Grimtooth]

you should have given all your wolf guard and hero's wolf pelts and put a wolf priest in the BC's, it worked for me when i was playing aainst thousand sons.

 

Pelts still only work if you successfully counterattack, and a priest only has Ld 10, rolling an 11 for ANY unit in the game would be an autofail.

 

 

Sorry but thats not the way i see it

 

Everybody and there mother counterattacks in the 5th ED rules, If you have the ability counterattack, you get a +1 when you make your LD, All units counter atack, even the one that dont have to move so you get the +1 for the pelt (move or no move) AND the +1 if you make the LD test, even if not moving.

 

Everybody and their mother do not counterattack in the 5th Edition Rules. Under the assault section of the BRB, the word "Counterattack" is not used one single time. Only units that have Counterattack in their special rules can counterattack. The special rule Counterattack and the Defenders React rule as listed on page 34 of the BRB are not the same thing.

 

The entry for a Wolf Pelt states the following:

 

....a model with a Wolf Pelt recieves a +1 attack bonus when they Counter-Attack.

 

Space Wolves 5th Edition FAQ states the following:

 

Counter-Attack: Ignore this and use the rules

from the universal Special Rules in the

Warhammer 40,000 rulebook (Long Fangs,

however, still do not get this rule).

 

Counter-Attack in the BRB states:

 

To represent this, when a unit with this rule is assaulted by the enemy it must take a Leadership test. If the test is successful all models in the unit get the +1 assault bonus to their attacks, exactly as if they too had assaulted that turn.

 

So Wolf Pelt gives a +1 attack when a Space Wolf counter-attacks. A counter-attack happens when a Space Wolf is assaulted and passes a Leadership test.

 

Counter-attack triggers the Wolf Pelt.

[Grey Mage]

Hes talking about our older Counterattack rules I believe.. not the new ones.

[Grimtooth]

Hes talking about our older Counterattack rules I believe.. not the new ones.

 

No he is confusing the 6" movement all armies make when they are assaulted to get into base to base contact with Counter-Attack. The move-in move after being assaulted is not Counter-attack it is Defenders React.

[Grey Mage]

Umm... Ramses... that IS what our old counterattack rule was... we got to move up to 6" forward to be in contact with the enemy.

[Grimtooth]

Sorry but thats not the way i see it

 

Everybody and there mother counterattacks in the 5th ED rules, If you have the ability counterattack, you get a +1 when you make your LD, All units counter atack, even the one that dont have to move so you get the +1 for the pelt (move or no move) AND the +1 if you make the LD test, even if not moving.

 

This is what he said.

 

Everybody and their mother implies that every army in 5th Edition has counter-attack. Everyone and their mother DOES have Defenders React, however only certain units have the special rule, Counter-Attack.

 

He is also pointing out the Leadership test needed for Counter-Attack which the old Space Wolves codex rules for Counter-Attack do not call out for. So he is not referring to the old Counter-Attack, but the new one.

[Grey Mage]

Everybody and their mother... yeah, they do have counter-attack/defenders react. These two rules are almost identical IF were talking about the old counter-attack. NOT the one in the 5th edition book, but the one in the 3rd edition SW codex.

 

Hes saying the pelt is activated by the old rule, and then we may or may not get the bonus from the new rule.

 

While I dont nessecairily agree with him, nor do I play it that way... I can see what he meant.

[Grimtooth]

Everybody and their mother... yeah, they do have defenders react. These two rules are almost identical IF were talking about the old counter-attack. NOT the one in the 5th edition book, but the one in the 3rd edition SW codex.

 

Hes saying the pelt is activated by the old rule, and then we may or may not get the bonus from the new rule.

 

While I dont nessecairily agree with him, nor do I play it that way... I can see what he meant.

 

fixt.

 

When I started playing 5th Edition, I called Defenders React, Counter-Attack. Then because it wasn't Counter-Attack, I started calling it Counter-Charge. Now I specifically call it Defenders React to eliminate any and all confusion.

 

Opponent: "Ok, I am assaulting your Storm Claws (moves his doomed squad into base to base as best he can and starts calculating attacks).

 

Ramses: "Defenders React (move my Storm Claws that are not in base to base into base to base). Taking Leadership test for Counter-Attack (roll a 4, pass and start calculating attacks including Wolf Pelt on Pack Leader for successfully rolling a Leadership test for Counter-Attack.)

 

Calling something that it isn't specifically labeled in the BRB just lends itself to problems since one additional word can lead to a completely different result. In this case, calling the move-in Counter-Attack instead of Defenders React leads to getting one more attack then allowed.

[Max_Dammit]

Ok ill heve to look in to the BBB, I thought they called it counter attack in writing but i could be mistaking.