Seth the Dark Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I am thinking of including him in a 1750 pt list and wondering how effective people find him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I think he is rather sucky. Not much of a fighter and I rather have Berzerkers instead of those 'pimped' CSM he can make. So for competative reasons I say a big no Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 over costed game wise . but gives options to make cult light csm units .in hth he sucks , his shoting is mostlly meh . , but i can imagine someone trying to make a cultless army for fluff with him. game wise not worth the points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Three tests: Does he fit the fluff for your army (or indeed, with Fabius and other special charactors, is he the basis for it)? Does he look cool? Will chicks dig it? Â If these tests are met, then field that Johnny. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvarn Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I won fabius bile and his squad of enchance csm as part of a huge pile of csm goodies i got from a local tourney a few years back. I never used him tho but, i would like to just for fun ^^ 18pts for a S5 Fearless is pretty ok (to me) i am kinda oldskool so i like the idea of randomness which is getting less and less in the current csm editions. He is a crap fighter, but then again if you can get pass that what he does for the army in whole is still pretty good. Do note tho a decked up csm enhance squad with AC + PF + rhino and 2 assault weapons + icon will cost more than a decked out cult unit... so it will get pricey! Â And say if you took the khorne icon the berserkers still will out do a enhance squad anytime... prob the only advantage enhance khorne icon csm has is the 2 assault weapon option and the bolters... which apart from the assault weapons you will rarely use. Â You could make a cool pre heresy or early post heresy EC with him tho... cause fabius bile was part of the emperors children. I would take him for fluff reasons, apart from that unless you want to make a fearless Tac squad then i guess 18pts are ok... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Snips Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Not much of a fighter. Â Â He is a close combat monster. The only thing that hurts him for assaults is I4 and the lack of an invulnerable. He has something like 6 -7 attacks on a charge with a str 5 weapon that causes instant death. That would tear up nob squads so fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomikron Noxis Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 The only thing that hurts him for assaults is I4 and the lack of an invulnerable. Â Unfortunately, this REALLY hurts him. Not having an invulnerable save and not being immune to ID, coupled with average initiative makes him sucky in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth the Dark Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thanks for the replies guys! I already have the model and mainly wanted to use him for fun but Berserkers would probably be a better option. I also play a Black Legion army and I eventually hope to have every unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Not much of a fighter. Â Â He is a close combat monster. The only thing that hurts him for assaults is I4 and the lack of an invulnerable. He has something like 6 -7 attacks on a charge with a str 5 weapon that causes instant death. That would tear up nob squads so fast. Â Lol? Its not a power weapon, and indeed I4 and no invulnerable save hurts. This would mean that for example Vulkan slices him before you even hit. And no power weapon means enemy characters will probably have a 3+ or even 2+ feel no pain save. Really maybe you should think a little harder before posting and acting like I lied. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord gunthar Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 i have never played with him but can he pimp up berzerkers cause then they could possibly be str 7 on the charge :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 i have never played with him but can he pimp up berzerkers cause then they could possibly be str 7 on the charge :lol: nope, only basic chaos space marines (troops choice). Cult unit cannot be buffed. Â He sucks from competetive PoV, but he is ok otherwise (not really good, but it's only 10% of your forces anyway). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemon*hunter Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 @ Zhukov: Thats why you don't throw him at characters :lol: @ Night Stalker: only basic csm? I thought it was everything on page 27... Â I've never used Biley, if he had a power weapon, i'd try him out, If he had inv safe, even better, Sadly looks like i wont be using him any time soon... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Not much of a fighter. Â He is a close combat monster. Â :D No PW, No invul save, no wings, int.4 ! How exactly is he a combat monster ?? :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Not much of a fighter. Â He is a close combat monster. Â :blink: No PW, No invul save, no wings, int.4 ! How exactly is he a combat monster ?? :D Â Â Maybe cause it's ugly :confused: Â @daemon*hunter: there is only one unit called 'Chaos Space Marines' in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. It's pretty clear. Bit sad, but this codex have more problems than Fabius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemon*hunter Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thats annoying... :D super bikes could have been fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thats annoying... :D super bikes could have been fun  ehh, WS5, str.7!!, 4 attack, brzrkrs would be pretty out of control. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 @ Zhukov: Thats why you don't throw him at characters :D Â Yeah that would be really costeffective, punching orks with a 100+ points characters <_< 2 Berzerkers hit harder than this guy... for less points indeed! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If you run 20+ of those marines he makes, then he's worth it as a consolation prize to having those troops. Â Berzerkers can only have plasma pistols, and dont come with bolters, and they always cannot handle a wraithlord that charges them without a powerfist. (Furious charge) Â Those Enhanced Marines Icons make them on par with berzerkers, if you compare them. Same number of attacks using IoK, str5, flamers, squad of 10 comes out at 220 pts (compared to 210 to zerks, no champs bought). Its give and take, also the Enhanced champ can have a combi-weapon in addition. Â So, if your willing to give up a HQ slot, for a half decent HQ and slightly more strategic "berzerkers" that have a few bad rolls that could cost you a few marines here and there, I say its ok. If you base an entire army around him with 40+ of those things, then its more then ok. But thats all there is to him, most would rather have more direct troops, or tougher troops for the same cost. (And sacrificial specialists in HQ/Fast/Heavy support sections where they arent scoring). Â If you do it for just 10 guys, and even in a 1750-ish force, he isnt quite worth it. Â Full thought on his ability: Â His gun is regular BS4, so its like having bit of a mobile heavy bolter to some degree, and he can hurt big critters with it so its fine. His str5 allows him to slap wraithlords on 6's so he is a danger to most monsters out there if he gets a wound in somehow. His extra attacks make it a semi-decent melee slapper for character duels. If you face him against a regular character without an instant death ability then lets see.. Â A quick Math-Hammer comparison of his 7 attacks on the charge. 4 to hit (3.5), needs 3+ to wound (2.16), so he .84 away from 3 wounds, against a 3+ save character he literally almost has him dead in one hit, he better save those two saves or he's dead. (Most loyalist marine HQ's average about 2.3 wounds in melee, giving fabius a chance to hit back in many cases). Â So if he's ever under-estimated he can ruin someone's day... If luck is on your side that is. He's removed a fair number of carnifexes back in the day for me, until someone got their tyrant close after learning the hard way.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgisnacht Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I've contemplated a Bile lead army with two enhanced squads unmarked, because they turn on each other more often that not. Also unit of possessed and Greater Deamon for kicks and bikes just for random goodness and quickness. Cost effective? Not really. A great concept? Maybe. I don't do the tourney route, I just play for fun and rolling of dice, conversing with my opponent about their army and generally having a good time. Will I have fun with Fabius? Yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2006981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If you face him against a regular character without an instant death ability then lets see.. A quick Math-Hammer comparison of his 7 attacks on the charge. 4 to hit (3.5), needs 3+ to wound (2.16), so he .84 away from 3 wounds, against a 3+ save character he literally almost has him dead in one hit,  Ummm, except for a s/m character will save 66% of the wounds so .7 wound, unless the s/m has art. or termi armor then it's .35 wound. This is of course assuming that Bile gets to strike at all, as a s/m capt. will go 1st, hit bile on 3+, wound on 2+ (or 4+ with rerolls) and Bile gets no save at all. If you actually finish the math hammer you started, Bile is almost 0 threat to a s/m character anywhere near his pts cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2007044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Finish the math-hammer, well alright. Â Captain: Relic Blade, Digital Weapons, Storm Shield, Jump Pack = 180 pts (as realisticly general as possible, according to your specs and no artificer for similar pts cost) Â 3 attacks (yes JUST 3) because of the initial scenario of saying that fabius charged, would translate in to 2 hits... That comes out as 1.66 (assuming only one dice is rerolled if there is a failed, the extra reroll is 50%(.17 of .34) then divided by 6, multiplied by 5) so it comes out from the .34 // .17 *6 x5 = a plus .14, coming out at 1.80 grand total. Â If the capt got the charge it would be: 4a/2.66h/2.22w(1/3rd of .44 being three dice rolled max of 2.66s is +.14)=2.36 Thus why I averaged it at 2.3 wounds, like I said before. =) Â I dont intend to flame, just giving a straight math-hammer. Â Any other 175 point-ish Captain builds you think is better then the one above? Because I dont play loyalists (I quit'em, just apoc techmarines). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2007071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 3 attacks (yes JUST 3) because of the initial scenario of saying that fabius charged, would translate in to 2 hits how does a character moving 6" per turn charge one with 12" move without paying 230pts for a land raider? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2007252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Good question, though I play my characters in the back of units they join, detaching my IC a turn prior to being charged, then counter charge with the character. (LoS blocking takes effect when the unit screens the character behind them, LoS is LoS after all) Â Good eye though, figured termy armor is more of a "joined another unit" thing, where a 6" moving model would always be inside another unit. While a jumper would be hanging out following a rhino into battle for lacking bikes/assault marines to join. Â For the sake of points similarities, artificer armor wasnt included. (In all honesty, I dont see many people taking 180 pt captains too often other then bike capts) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2007594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 No because everyone takes Vulkan, Pedro or Khan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2007610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemon*hunter Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 3 attacks (yes JUST 3) because of the initial scenario of saying that fabius charged, would translate in to 2 hits how does a character moving 6" per turn charge one with 12" move without paying 230pts for a land raider? Everyone makes mistakes, maybe he fell short of a charge, or just finished off another units, or the loyalist player just didn't see him etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/169900-thoughts-on-fabius-bile/#findComment-2007676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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