Sgt.Sangha Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Alright people Ive been going all over this board and I get a general feeling that people did not like descent of angels. What i want to know is WHAT exactly was it that people disliked, was it the narrative style, was the characters, or was it just because of fluff. and please use constrictive criticism and understand that people have opinion, however dont just state it Explain it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Personally, I disliked it because it never went anywhere. You got the sense that you'd only read half a book. I think it'll become much better once we have access to Fallen Angels, but at the moment it's just an unfinished story to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarified Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I loved it but being a DA player I would. The only thing I would say is it felt a little slow. I think when we see the next few installments for the DA's it will make sence to more people Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrible_Trygon Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I just found it painfully dull and boring. It was so slow and uninteresting compared to the other Horus Heresy books. Even Battle for Abyss had it's moments, but Decent of Angels gave me nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinius Chosen Wing Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I can say I enjoyed it because of the fact that it was a slower style and form of narrative. I enjoyed that it felt like a Warhammer book set firmly in 40K and that it adressed the beginnings of a Primach. But from what ive gathered themain reasons for hate are that the Lion doesnt come off really interesting, that it seemed like a Warhammer book and it didnt truly relate to the Horus Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeGuy Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I can't even find it here, nobody sells it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus lo volt Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 1) To much time on Caliban. 2) The Emperor's cameo sucked. 3) No interaction between the Lion and the Emperor. 4) Zahariel didn't kill the "Lion" with honor. Don't agree? Where did he go at the end? 5) Re-hash of the Ventris/Learchus conflict. Zahariel got all the attention but Nemiel stole the show by acting like a...........wait for it.........DARK ANGEL! 6) Never got a glimpse of the Lion's strategic brilliance. 7) Luther character was very static and very disappointing. 8) Just a terrible choice of enemy on Sarosh. 9) Zahariel is the 40k Cypher. 10) Not enough Ultramarines! Â Just some quick thoughts ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logain the Ranger Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I liked the book. The major thing that stands out to me as why people hate it is because it's not part of the Heresy per say. Though as now a second book is coming out people seem more interested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2008251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pahdraic Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 With the exception of the last 50 pages or so, it's really nothing more than a conventional and rather boring fantasy story. By far my least favorite installment in the Horus Heresy series and perhaps the only 40K book that I've truly disliked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2009449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
#13 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I liked the first part though it didn't really relate to the Heresy. It was kinda like a dark angel version of the Space wolf books. Â The emperor's arrival and stuff that goes on after was a bit stretched. Normally you'd expect that Zahariel would not have been chosen to become a space marine, but that they'd have executed him just to be sure they didn't have a traitor. Â After Zahariel has become a space marine the book feels that they had to end it quickly because they were out of pages. That was really weak. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2009771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I actually liked the book up until the ending where it ended flat. Now I understand that was the just the first book. I expect Fallen Angels to bring everything home. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2009841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think following in the wake of the other heresy novels it fell a little flat. Â Like it's already been said it was too fantasy focused and didn't fit the feel of the other books light of imperial truth. There were no real revelations or insights and to be honest it read more like a modern 40k novel. Â Given the nature of the history of the Chapter there was so much potential for a great story but taking it so far back it lost the momentum built by the rest of the series. I would have prefered the book to be set firmly in the Great Crusade and the issues dealt with by this book used in retrospect of the events unfolding rather than the main story itself. Â I know that there are bound to be those that liked it but I found it a complete chore to finish where as the others have been real page turners. It just felt incomplete and lack lustre. I've re-read the others countless times but this is just sat gathering dust on my shelf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2010422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 For me it had next to nothing to do with the Heresy, the Lion wasn't anywhere near how his troops described him and the characters were one dimensional. Â The good part was the mystery behind the 'Cypher' and the medieval take on Caliban (which could have been explored much further and tied in better with the Heresy). Â Â My 2 Kraks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2010440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 No clue. Personally, I found it one of the more readable Black Library books, and was happy to see a Horus Heresy novel that didn't exist primarily to reveal yet another tiring "everything you knew was false!" info-bit engineered primarily to keep the 40K population chattering. Â But, hey, that's just me. Everyone else in the world seems to adore the Horus Heresy series, which, "Descent" aside, I've found to be a fairly worthless waste of paper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2010715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I don't hate Descent, if anything I think it was indeed one of the better books that I've read from the Black Library guys, then again maybe it's because I also like to read the WHF books but who knows. You are all correct though saying that it should have been set more in the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy, but this was a pre-book before all the things were happening I'd say it wasn't so bad though the monicker Horus Heresy shouldn't have been there, Great Crusade would have been more 'real'. Â That said, where other people keep badgering on Descent, I'll gladly to the same to Mechanicum, which to be way rather jawn worthy, the best part IMO of that book was the 'machine' and the psyker (not to much spoiler I hope), but the rest was jawn worthy, even the Titan battles, I dunno huge Mecha's firing at each-other from far-away isn't as nice to read to me then for example watching Guardsmen Titus fight for his life against a screaming Orc wielding a choppa. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2010722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I hated Descent of Angels for mostly the reasons already said. I would have been much happier if the novel had jumped straight into the events of the Great Crusade and the conflict between the Old Legion elements and the new Legion elements and the antipathy and resentment felt by Luther without doing it so... blandly. Luther's character could have been a lot deeper and there's a great deal of possibilities that could have been explored to express his frustrations at always being in Johnson's shadow. It just didn't feel complete nor did it tell us anything new nor was it really much of a 40k book till the last few Chapters. Â The short story in Tales of Heresy was much better IMO if a little shameless and hopefully Fallen Angels will be what DoA should have been. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2010726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think it was because El'Johnson came off as a pompus ass. I expected better of him, and Im a SW player! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2010813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think it was because El'Johnson came off as a pompus ass. I expected better of him, and Im a SW player! Â Seconded here! As a Dark Angel player I really felt my Primarch was robed of all real nobility by the story. It really pissed me off. Its almost like some one slandering your mother. By the time the book was done I'm sure alot of people would have liked to line him up with Logar and Angeron and put a Bolter shell in his head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2011636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrus Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Pretty Simple to me  The hersy book sould be like the first 3 in that they tell the story of the primarch and his main supporting staff and tell the stories of the crusade and hersey. This book had almost none of the primarch in it at all and was mostly a fantasy story about chump 101 ... so what.  The book had no 40k feel to it. Told little to nothing of the crusade   Hell Angels of Darkness was FAR better for this then Decent ever was. IMHO just read that as your dark angels hersy noval and call it even... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2011688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherLoki Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 It appears most people who didn't like it wanted it to be exactly like all the other books in the series. Personally I found it a refreshing change of pace and style. I wouldn't want to read the same book 20 times for 20 different legions. Â I would agree that the ending was rushed and Jonson came across as a git though. That said, most of the Primarchs have so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2011922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 It appears most people who didn't like it wanted it to be exactly like all the other books in the series. Personally I found it a refreshing change of pace and style. I wouldn't want to read the same book 20 times for 20 different legions. Â I would agree that the ending was rushed and Jonson came across as a git though. That said, most of the Primarchs have so far. Â Change is refreshing but not stupid change. I can't speak for everyone but I was expecting... a LOT more from DoA, it could have been so much more. The intrigue, the treachery, the resentment, the split loyalties and sundered brotherhoods, there was so much room for depth and character and none of it was really explored and IMO the book fell flat on it's face. I didn't want it to be exactly like the other HH novels but I did want it to be up to scruff and at least do as well as the others did. The other books were massive revelations about the Heresy and the Legions, DoA on the other hand told us nothing new of any importance and jerked readers around on some rather basic fantasy story for most of the book before getting around to the relevant subject and setting. Â Personally every Chapter I read that didn't get onto the Great Crusade was simply irritating. I wouldn't have minded the slow guide in if it had taken up maybe just the first 1/4 of the book, even better if it was just a few Chapters but 3/4 or more of the book before we get to what I wanted to read about was just lame. Â And I gotta third the previous sentiment about Johnson, like Grey Mage I'm deffinitely NOT a fan of the Dark Angels and even I was frustrated by the lack of depth to Johnson's character and his pompous egocentric nonsense. I also gotta agree with Tybrus, Angels of Darkness was far better and far more revealing about the Dark Angels and it's not even a HH book! But it does look like we'll be seeing more of Astelan if the short story in Tales of Heresy is anything to go by so hopefully that will improve the situation some! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2012360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Balok Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Personally I had no problems with the book.... well, that's not exactly true. The ending caught me by surprise. But when I found out that it was basically part one of an ancillary multi-book run. As far as not tying into the other HH novels, it does give a bit of information concerning something that always irked me.... how did the fully adult members of the Order (or the other warrior organizations that existed on the other Primarchs' homeworlds) get to become Space Marines? If the aspirant needs to be physically immature to survive the implantation of the progenoid and all the following new organs, how did these old guys do it? And Descent answered that question for me.... those who were too old were only turned halfway into Astartes, their skills and knowledge were far to valuable to lose. Â And I don't mind the seeming one dimensional representation of the Lion; the story is told from a single viewpoint (Zahariel's) and the information he has is limited. And from what I have read in rest of the HH books is that all of the primarchs were well and truly dicks of the nth degree. What else could you expect when they were to the Astartes as an Astartes is to a normal human? When given the strengths and abilities that they had, the fall from such heights is all the more dramatic and tragic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2012785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 It was instantly forgettable and practically nothing happened. That's all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2012791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 The story definitly needs more. Something to make you feel you didn't waste your 8 bucks. As a DA player how has had to contend with the 2 sides of the schisum within the Legion from the begining the only thing I learned is at this point is the the Fallen where proabaly right when the say the Lion did them wrong. That just did not sit well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2012893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Balok Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 The story definitly needs more. Something to make you feel you didn't waste your 8 bucks. As a DA player how has had to contend with the 2 sides of the schisum within the Legion from the begining the only thing I learned is at this point is the the Fallen where proabaly right when the say the Lion did them wrong. That just did not sit well. Â Â I think that's the point, really. To shake up our preconceptions of what happened during the Heresy and the qualities of the major players therein. The books have certainly made me reconsider the motivations of the Emperor himself.... Whereas before I thought his goal was the salvation of humanity, now I'm not so sure. But then, from a story-telling standpoint it really is brilliant! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170031-decent-of-angels-why-the-hate/#findComment-2013552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.