Master of the Forge

[joeshmoe]

Do any of you guys use the Master of the Forge to get the 6 possible dreadnoughts?

Any sample lists for basic ideas?

Would you still bring in a Landraider or 2 as dedicated transport to get that extra punch?

Seems like an interesting / different army list can be set up.

 

It would be cool to field 6 dreads and a landraider or 2.

 

What do you think?

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Do any of you guys use the Master of the Forge to get the 6 possible dreadnoughts?

Any sample lists for basic ideas?

Would you still bring in a Landraider or 2 as dedicated transport to get that extra punch?

Seems like an interesting / different army list can be set up.

 

It would be cool to field 6 dreads and a landraider or 2.

 

What do you think?

 

 

would be very cool to deploy that much heavy armour - only real problem i can see is that a dread "as mighty as it may be" can't fufill some vital roles and leaves your numbers abit to low for my likeing - plus depending on the type of enemy your facing you could be subject to metla bomb harasment or suffer heart stopping moements from lasconnons to melta's - but id go for it and just see how well you fare.

[Gortrok]

I'd only use the 6 Dreadnought rule in a battle of 2000+ points really. Anything under that means too few troops/specialist units, and trouble getting those vital objectives/kill points.

 

I've used the Master before with a conversion beamer. I just stuck him in a corner with a clear shot to as much of the field as possible, put a few blocking units near him and fired away. Blew up 2 Sentinels and a Leman Russ, along with some unfortunate guardsmen in a command platoon when I had no more armour to shoot at :huh:

[Brother Icipher]

MotF is all about the Conversion Beamer (should really be the BFG9000). If you can find a good spot with a good field of fire, he can rule the battlefield. Just sit back and find things to vapourise with it.

[waaanial00]

Tonight I am going to use a MotF in a very interesting, if low on scoring units, list.

 

Without typing the whole thing out I am getting for 2000 points:

 

MotF

3 Venerable Dreads (2 drop pods), 1 Ironclad in a drop pod

6 Tactical Terminators

6 Assault Terminators in a Landraider

5 CC scouts in a Storm

5 Sniper Scouts

MM Landspeeder

 

Certainly very top heavy but wanted to run a list without Tactical Squads.

 

Master of the Forge is an interesting choice and his Servo Harness makes him quite an all round shooty unit as well as making him quite hard in combat. I think though that the main advantage and reason for running him over another HQ choice is the ability to run Dreads as Heavy Support, this allows you to take 3 and still have a complete compliment of Elite choices.

 

Wan

[ChapniK]

The master of the forge should always be on a bike if he is going to have the conversion beamer. This increases, his T, which is always good, espacially since he does not have a invulnerable save. also with a bike he can get further away and get more powerfull shots

 

This is what I usually run, when I feel like going with a Master of the Forge. It’s a bit light on scoring units, but I like it. I can usually easily contest the objective that I don’t control.

 

Master of the forge: servo-harness,power weapon: 115

 

Assault terminators: X6, all SS/TH, Land Raider Crusader, multi-melta: 240+260:500

 

Dreadnought: Multi-melta, Heavy-Flamer, drop pod: 150

 

Dreadnought: Multi-melta, Heavy-Flamer, drop pod: 150

 

Tactical Squad: X10, Power Fist, flamer, Multi-Melta, Drop Pod: 230

 

Tactical Squad: X10, power fist,combi-flamer, flamer, Multi-Melta: 205 (in the land raider)

 

Ironclad Dreadnought: meltagun, heavy-flamer, assault launcher, drop pod: 195

 

Ironclad Dreadnought: meltagun, heavy-flamer, assault launcher, drop pod: 195

 

Land raider: multi-melta: 260

 

Total: 2000

[Rindaris]

I've fallen in love with using a MotF on a bike with a beamer. Previously I would continually change which HQ I was using, never really finding one that suited me. This one does. So far I havn't fielded more then 4 dreadnoughts, and likely wouldn't outside of Apoc. I use the Master more for the mobile uber ranged weapon and to make my scouts 2+ cover save terminators :tu:

[CylonDorado]

You don't have to use that rule to max out on dreadnaughts. You could also use it to max out on other elites (Sternguard, Termies, etc.) and then include one dreadnaught or so.

[Giga]

I'm a big fan of Adeptus Mechanicus, and so I'm constantly toying with the idea of including a master of the forge with conversion beamer and like 2-3 servitors (one of them with a heavy bolter), and then keeping them tucked same somewhere in a rhino, so they can shoot out of the top hatch.

 

If there was one thing I really really really wish they did in the rules, then that is giving a 4+ invulnerable save to the MotF.

[Silber]

If there was one thing I really really really wish they did in the rules, then that is giving a 4+ invulnerable save to the MotF.

:P

Or even a 5+. Or some option to give him a storm shield or whatever. Anything!

[rusty1109]

i know, doesn't make any sense to me why he doesn't have it. You'd think the guy who holds the key to the chapters best tech would sort himself out with an invulnerable save! And have you seen the most recent miniature (silly question you all field one doh lol!) He's clad in all but terminator armour!

[Brother Icipher]

i know, doesn't make any sense to me why he doesn't have it. You'd think the guy who holds the key to the chapters best tech would sort himself out with an invulnerable save! And have you seen the most recent miniature (silly question you all field one doh lol!) He's clad in all but terminator armour!

 

I think you can pretty much write that one off to another patented GW oversight! ;)

[waaanial00]

I'm a big fan of Adeptus Mechanicus, and so I'm constantly toying with the idea of including a master of the forge with conversion beamer and like 2-3 servitors (one of them with a heavy bolter), and then keeping them tucked same somewhere in a rhino, so they can shoot out of the top hatch.

 

I have seen this done with 5 servitors armed with servo arms. It was in a doubles game against orks, the squad in question rolled 12 4+ saves in one turn of shooting then charged and beat a unit of Wazdakka and 3 Biker Nobs without a single loss. It was a truely under the blessing of the Omnissia (spelt really poorly).

 

Oh and my army did well against an Eldar player. He managed to kill all of my Terminators but my Venerable dreadnoughts refused to die. I think with a little manipulation this list will end up being a keeper.

 

Wan

[Giga]

I've been toying with a shooty MoTF list yesterday. Here's what I came up with for 1850 pts:

HQ:

Master of the Forge – 120 pts

- replace servo-harness & boltgun with conversion beamer

 

TROOPS:

Tactical Squad Red (10 men) – 230 pts

- flamer

- missile launcher

- power fist instead of bolt pistol on sergeant

- rhino

 

Tactical Squad Yellow (10 men) – 240 pts

- flamer

- power fist instead of bolt pistol on sergeant

- plasma cannon

- razorback

 

Tactical Squad Green (10 men) – 225 pts

- flamer

- melta bombs on sergeant

- lascannon

- razorback

 

ELITES:

Assault Terminators (6 men) – 240 pts

- replace lightning claws with thunder hammers & storm shields

 

Sternguard (10 men) – 315 pts

- power fist instead of bolt pistol on sergeant

- meltagun x2

- rhino

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Land Raider – 275 pts

- multimelta

- extra armor

 

Predator – 120 pts

- lascannon sponsors

 

Predator – 85 pts

- heavy bolter sponsors

As you can see, the list is suitably fluffy, with lots of vehicles. Needless to say, it can be done in pretty much the same way by using shooty dreadnoughts instead of predators.

 

The idea is to form a gunline. Use MotF to bolster a defense with a high vantage point, and then place him and the lascannon tactical squad there. They aren't supposed to move the entire game, and will instead just stand there under a 3+ cover save and shoot stuff with conversion beamer and lascannon. Plasma cannon team would work much the same, except it wouldn't be teamed up with MotF. Combat squadding would be an option in objective games.

 

The LR, razorbacks and the predators don't move, they just stand there and shoot the crap out of incoming enemy. Sternguard and terminators wait in their transports for the opponent to come close, at which point they destroy whatever managed to survive the army's firepower. In objective games, the sternies, the termies in LR, and the tac squad in rhino would be used later in the game (turn 3 or 4) to move away from my deployment zone to secure objectives or contest enemy objectives.

 

The basic plan is; dig in, shoot the crap out of incoming opponent, and then crush them with sternguard and terminators once they finally get near.

 

This list is more for fun, but I'm thinking it just might work if played right. :D

 

One idea I had was to get a scout squad with camo cloaks and missile launcher to accompany the motf, so they'd get 2+ cover save thanks to camo cloaks + bolster defense, but the scouts suck and would probably want to shoot at a different target then the motf anyway.

[Vel'Cona]

Agreed with ChapniK 100%. I would NEVER take a Conversion Beamer for a MotF if he wasn't bike mounted. Making him Relentless turns the MotF into a mobile anti-tank or anti-armor infantry unit. He can use his normal 12" move to stay at his max range as much as possible, and drop highly accurate template shots with his BS5. If he comes under heat, just TB away for the 3+ Cover to save his hide. And since he's so far away, it's likely most opponents won't even be able to return fire. The cost is a bit high, but there's a lot to be said for extreme range AP1 weapons.

That said, there are a few issues with this build: mostly IG Ordnance attacks and the like. It may be worth the points to give the MotF a unit of bikes/scout bikes or etc. to soak wounds for him, though that may not necessarily save him against Battle Cannons.

[Giga]

That said, there are a few issues with this build: mostly IG Ordnance attacks and the like. It may be worth the points to give the MotF a unit of bikes/scout bikes or etc. to soak wounds for him, though that may not necessarily save him against Battle Cannons.

Actually, the motf is going to stand in bolstered cover (3+ cover save) with the lascannon tactical squad. :) So that gives him a pretty good survival chance + lots of models to soak up wounds.

 

If motf is on a bike, then he suffers pretty much no matter what. If he stays out of cover, he gets owned by ordnance. If he goes into area terrain to get cover, his squad is likely to lose expensive models due to dangerous terrain tests.

 

+ A motf on a bike is much easier to snipe down with a lascannon shot to the face.

 

Also, TB-ing with a motf means he won't be shooting his conversion beamer, which means he's useless for the turn.

[Vel'Cona]

Not a bad argument as far as the "static" MotF goes. I agree, the 3+ cover makes him very durable and the squad he's joined up to will give him more wounds to take. That said, there's a few points of interest in the argument.

First, the static MotF will not gain nearly as much portability with his CB, since he can't move to shoot it your opponent will be able to push in close much more easily, and negate the advantage that "long" shots give to the S and AP of the weapon. Against fast moving armies like Nids, C:SM, and Daemons (to name a few) he will be at 24" or less very quickly, with a sufficiently less impressive shot. This also means he'll be engaged much more quickly in close combat, where his big Cover Save will instantaneously go kaput. Also, depending on Bolstered Cover to grant the bonus save means you're pigeonholing not only the MotF but his unit as well to deploying in very particular terrain (ruins or buildings), which on many tables may be sparse or entirely nonexistant. This can make him predictable and limit his ability to gain max range and therefore effectiveness with the CB.

Second, the Bike mounted MotF does not need to "enter" area terrain to gain a cover save, there is also "intervening" terrain he can hide behind, such as low walls and building corners, which he only needs to gain majority cover from to get his 4+. He can also utilize intervening Bike Squads or even transports to gain this save, as well as joining a small Bike unit and taking advantage of "majority cover save." It must also be noted that, when used correctly, the Bike mounted MotF will also gain the ability to maintain distance from his opponent, which is key when trying to avoid Lascannons and other high power single shot weapons. This has the side effect of maximizing the potency of the CB, and allowing you to maintain that range as long as possible.

Lastly, the TB option should only be taken when: A: the MotF is in imminent danger of assault, or B: he needs to break LoS to avoid a very dangerous long range unit (Battle Cannons, Railguns). It isn't something that should be done as a general practice, I would use it as an "oh crud my MotF is gonna die" failsafe.

That said, I will admit that Battle Cannons are still a dangerous answer to the MotF, especially if he can't find some form of intervening cover and/or is not joined to a unit. As two newer, and popular armies can field them it may limit the Bike mounted MotF's usefullness a tad. However, I still feel that if one was to field this type of MotF with a well built, Bike oriented list (perhaps alongside a Bike Captain), it would be far superior to the footslogging variant in any other army. As always, YRMV.

[Giga]

Well, while I agree with you that bike-motf with CB in a bike-oriented army would be great, I generally do not like the idea of having to give him a bike escort unit or the like. Thing is, I generally don't like the fact I'm going to be losing expensive bikes each time I'm forced to pass them through terrain.

 

As for bolster defenses, getting a ruin or building to bolster is no problem where I play. My local store has tons of cities of death terrain AND there's always a ruin or two on the table. Then again, even if I can't get my 3+ cover save, the 4+ cover save will just have to do. It's a pity, but it's not something I can't do without.

 

Also, while you can move the bike motf in such a way so that you get intervening terrain, you will also end up giving a cover save to the enemy too, since the motf won't be inside the area terrain and therefore won't ignore it for the purpose of shooting.

 

The list I made up there is all about shooting lots of long range stuff into the enemy, while at the same time keeping them at a prudent distance. Hence why I have that rhino-tac squad, the assault termies in the land raider, and the sternguard in the rhino - these hard hitting yet durable units (with the exception of the tactical squad, they're support) are supposed to stop the incoming enemy in their tracks, and to keep the motf, the other two tac squads, the razorbacks, and the predators safe from assault. Additionally, even if the enemy quickly gets into the 18" range from the motf (at which point the CB becomes weak for a blast weapon), most such armies will still have some range support you can shoot at that will still be at a big enough distance for a STR10 AP1 shot. Orks, for example, tend to have a unit of lootas sit back and shoot while the majority of the army goes forward to assault. The motf can simply shoot the lootas, and let the terminators/sternguard/tacticals/all those heavy bolters deal with the orks close-by.

 

Again, it's really just a fun list, anyway - designed to find a use for a CB motf. If I wanted to make it truly competitive, I'd take some upgrades away from the tac squads and get pedro cantor instead of the motf. Then I'd probably get rid of one of the tac squads and get another sternguard squad instead, etc.

[Vel'Cona]

Fair enough, as long as we agree the MotF is generally a "fun" choice I think we both have good points! Actually, my LGS honestly has way too much city/ruins terrain too! What up wid dat??? ;)

[Giga]

Fair enough, as long as we agree the MotF is generally a "fun" choice I think we both have good points! Actually, my LGS honestly has way too much city/ruins terrain too! What up wid dat??? :blink:

Well, I guess grim darkness of the far future goes a lot better against the backdrop of ruined cities and crumbling civilization, then it does against the backdrop of nice green forests and crystal-blue lakes. :P

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

In my list he is there to bolster a ruins for my sniper scouts and allow me to take my three dreads as Heavies instead of valuable elites, he also can repair an Immobilized or weapon destroyed and has a twin linked PP, flamer and power fists with artificer. He's great. I'm not a big fan of the conversion beamer.

[Vel'Cona]

Goes back to the age old argument that can beat ANY question of a unit's value: the commander's preference. In your list, the MotF is pivotal to your army design, and you find great use for his Servo-Harness as opposed to the CB. I think that's actually an aspect of army building I can always agree with: if the player is convinced the unit is good, and can make it work, who can honestly discourage using even the most inane stuff? In the case of the MotF, I wouldn't so much refer to him as inane as opposed to unconventional, though.

[Frosty the Pyro]

I dont actualy own any heavy suport choices, but I have a lot of terminators and dreads, So I use a techmarine as a counts as MOTF so I can feild the dreads and the terminators in the same list.

 

On a side thought, If your taking a captian also, how would the MOTF synergize in a comand squad. Load them all with flamers and you will be able to drop five (5!) flammer templates, plus the PP and the apothicaries bolter. also 2+ FNP might help make up for the lack of inv save some by making it less likely to take a wound from regular weapons (and the ablative wounds from the squad). and they can all be mounted with bikes if you like. Yeah still wont help to much if a bunch of powerfist weilding psychos come runnin at you, but even most of those are going to get upset with the amount of flamer to face it would bring. Might be fun anyway. I realy need to get me some bikes.

[Upstartes]

A MotF on a bike is a really fun choice for Apocalypse games, where the tables are even bigger, and the MotF can easily get into his sweet-spot range, and where he is but one of many scary threats on the board.

[River Black]

I was thinking of running a MotF in my all bike army and I even got to the point where i modeled him up. The idea of a T5 2+ model with the ability to move 12 inches and still fire his potential str 10 blast seemed also unbeatable. However when it came time to fine tune my list and see what he would replace I was quite stumped. The MotF come it at around 155 point for the whole deal. THATS THREE MM ATTACK BIKES. So I ask you is he really that good and if he is what should I replace to actually get him in my army. Every model in my army is currently mounted on bikes and I typically run three 8 man bike squads 6 - 8 Attack bikes, three scout bikes with melta grenades and the captains command squad. Any ideas?