Do Chaos Space Marines recruit?

[ferrum proeliator]

So... presumably there are still loads of renegade and traitor marines dotted around the place, but surely some Chaos Legions or chapters recruit neophytes to make up for the losses. My question is simple, do they recruit new marines? Or do they rely mostly on space marine chapters turning renegade. I mean I hardly see that a chaos space marine legion such as the Iron Warriors or Black Legion waiting around for chapters to turn "renegade" to fill in their numbers.

 

Any Thoughts??

[Important]

I think that I have read somewhere that some of them raid for SM gene seed so they can recruit, in those terms I also think that the original chaos legions are too proud to raid for other chapters gene seed since they are proud of thier own. But I do believe it's harder to become recruited by C:SM since it must be some cultist who actualy do stuff to get the attention of nearby legion or renegade chapter or the gods could give you a hand towards one of the god legions.

[Brother Nihm]

Recruitment is hinted at in several older stories (e.g. Storm of Iron) and is more recently outlined, in the story Nightfall, in Heroes of the Space Marines.

In short, some Traitor Legions recruit young humans and turn them into Space Marines just as the loyalists do, some breed new recruits (SoI) and some re-summon the souls of the dead from the Warp to imbue suits of armour with intelligence (non-Magnusian TSons).

[DuskRaider]

What they said, haha. I think it's a bit difficult to use the Geneseed from the Traitor Legions these days, as they've been tainted by all different sorts of maladies (Death Guard for example). I don't suppose it's impossible, as I imagine the Apothecaries of the Traitor Legions care little about mutation (and if you're going to become a Plague Marine anyhow, might as well start with the Geneseed!). I still think most of the Traitor Legions are still running off of the troops they had 10,000 years ago, but that's me... I hate to think of Ultra Genes or whatnot in my Death Guard or World Eater armies.

[ferrum proeliator]

What they said, haha. I think it's a bit difficult to use the Geneseed from the Traitor Legions these days, as they've been tainted by all different sorts of maladies (Death Guard for example). I don't suppose it's impossible, as I imagine the Apothecaries of the Traitor Legions care little about mutation (and if you're going to become a Plague Marine anyhow, might as well start with the Geneseed!). I still think most of the Traitor Legions are still running off of the troops they had 10,000 years ago, but that's me... I hate to think of Ultra Genes or whatnot in my Death Guard or World Eater armies.

 

In the same way that I'd hate to have imperial fists Geneseed in my Iron Warriors, but I do believe it happens. Sorry, after posting I started to Reread storm of Iron, and Honsou has imperial fist geneseed within him. From what t'others have said it does seem logical that the traitor legions would recruit, but I can't think of any examples of Legions doing it. I do know that the original Legions were colossal. Perhaps the original traitor marines haven't become depleted enough for them to worry about recruiting quite yet. It would be an interesting thing to do though - Chaos Space Marine neophytes (Chaosy Scouts haha).

[DuskRaider]

Chaos Scouts... Isn't that what Cultists are? :)

[Rain]

The fluff has always been very vague on this topic. Back in early third edition it heavily implied that all legion marines were basically heresy veterans and as the legions were so large there were still plenty running around. Then the second third edition codex had one short blurb about a 14 year old kid from a chaos worshiping tribe that was recruited by a "prophet" (Black Legionnaire) after he killed a space marine that the prophet had wounded.

 

Didn't really explain how it was done or anything, it just said that he would become a warrior of the gods, though the rest of the codex focused on heresy vet CSM. Then there are the BL books which do include "new" CSM, but I agree that the idea of Iron Warriors using Imperial Fists geneseed is just bizarre so as it's all made up anyway, I just ignore that part and have my Iron Warriors be all heresy vets as they have always been :P

[chillin]

Chaos would have to recuit just like s/m's or there would be no more (or very few) csm left after 10,000 yrs of fighting.

[Corpse.]

Works like this. Each chaos marine has their own ambitions, even if its following a lord or great sorcerer. Ambition and cult religeon replaced the love of the emperor. So with that, they rouse up the local warriors from clans, cults and what have them, being mutant or regular humans. They gather their recruits and lead them (Like lost and the damned did back in the day) until some of them become worthy of the geneseed. They become a marine, and follow their champion. If their champ made enough marines, he can break away and become his own lord.

 

They are similar to orks in a way from the terms of recruitment.

 

"Oi, follow me coz I iz big and you iz not!" = same concept. Some others geneticlly clone/create their own marines, many being very monstrous, some mentioned being without skin and created in different means.

 

Rubric marines take the body of another marine and use it as summoning ritual material to repossess a suit of armor with a thousand son's soul.

 

Plague marines are not really needing an explination...

 

Noise Marines, pretty obvious some fall to the prince..

 

Berzerkers, they are harder to explain, most likely battle slaves recruited from death worlds and the like, maddened with psycho drugs and such them turned into a marine after they become a servant of khorne. (with some battle rituals where the last one standing may be one) and so on...

 

Sounds good enough of an explination or you require more?

[Deadlight]

Fabius Bile, has been creating/cloning them for the different war bands from geneseed taken from fallen loyalists,

 

Other than that I thought that the chaos marines take them from the endless tides of slaves in the eye of terror, and implant them with geneseed just as the loyalists do, only the success rate is lower than the imperials.

 

also they may recruit from imperial planets with the recruits been taken by force if necessary.

 

thats all i can think of right now

[cathar the great]

I think they also recruit like the loyalists, using either what is left of their own geneseed or what they can steal and loot through battle.

 

But the drop-out rate will be a lot higher. Chaos Apothecaries or whoever makes new Chaos Marines will probably not care that much for the purity of the geneseed, as long as a new warrior for Chaos comes out the other end. So more casualties because of spontanious mutations and things like that.

 

I could also imagine that Chaos Marines made from loyalist or mixed geneseed are less respected among the Chaos lords of the legions, like Honsou in Dead Sky Black Sun.

 

As always, with Chaos, anything is possible!

[Razhbad]

There are countless ways, recruit fallen astartes, give Fabius a call (or others like him), use loyalist geneseed, manage to get traitor geneseed (read SoI), some extreme experiment (read DSBS) and Sorcery.

 

It's probably hardest finding an ideal recruit and i can't imagine CSM being patient enough to put the organs in slowly over years they probably slam them all in at once and see what they get (whether it's a CSM or some mutant thing).

[VonMerrick]

The Iron Warriors stories have touched on this briefly. According to Storm of Iron, there was enough Geneseed captured to create legions of Space Marines. The novel never touches on whose geneseed was captured.

 

This was followed up in "Dead Sky Black Sun", where the Iron Warriors are taking captured people and creating new Iron Warriors from the Citadel's captured Gene-seed. It is stated that Honsou himself is a half-breed as his geneseed is from the Imperial Fists. Thus a warsmith of the Iron Warriors is genetically a son of Dorn.

 

Also the original legions were so vast and huge, (just read Horus Rising to get a scope of the size of the Luna Wolves), that there seems to be plenty of original marines left in the ranks.

 

The "organized" legions still seem to have plenty of marines. The word bearers have huge hosts and 2 daemon worlds, the Iron Warriors have lots of new Geneseed, and the night lords still recruit from Imperial worlds.

 

The cult legions seem to be different. The attrition rate of the World Eaters seems to be aweful, so how they recruit is a mystery. Nothing has ever been stated, as far as I know about how the Emperor's Children gather new blood, but since both of these legions have been smashed into smaller warbands it probably differs warband to warband. Also in the space wolf novels Maddox opened the warp and brought the spirits of several of the 1k sons back from the ether, so they don't seem to recruit, but "recycle" their brothers. Ding out some dents on the armour, quick lube and oil change, some new paint, and an ancient ritual to the changer of ways and there you are instant recycled ghost marine!

[Dammeron]

They most certainly do. The Second Ed chaos codex provides some detail as to how they choose their initiates from the populations of the daemon worlds or from amongst the ranks of Chaos cultists (though I imagine the cultist in question would have to go through a hell of alot to prove themselves worthy). It also points out that the trials and initiation ceremonies are particularly brtual, ensuring that only the strongest survive.

[incinerator950]

Problem with the new codex is that it states new Berserkers and plague marines almost always have to join up into a World Eater's or Black legion warband/legion..Or finding a neurosurgeon/apothecary whose probably from the World Eaters anyway.

 

Plague marines have to do vice versa with Death Guard and Black Legion, or renegade sorcerers of Nurgle, which is how the BL makes new PMs, by using said sorcerers.

 

Rubric Marines are, for better or worse, still Thousand Sons.

 

Noise marines would be the easiest cult troops to make, as the codex just states...actually doesn't even say anything, just about some brief history of how noise marines started in the Emperor's Children. <_<

 

In 3.5 it was just you were this and that if you had that mark.

[Magnus Thane]

The fluff has always been very vague on this topic. Back in early third edition it heavily implied that all legion marines were basically heresy veterans and as the legions were so large there were still plenty running around. Then the second third edition codex had one short blurb about a 14 year old kid from a chaos worshiping tribe that was recruited by a "prophet" (Black Legionnaire) after he killed a space marine that the prophet had wounded.

 

Didn't really explain how it was done or anything, it just said that he would become a warrior of the gods, though the rest of the codex focused on heresy vet CSM. Then there are the BL books which do include "new" CSM, but I agree that the idea of Iron Warriors using Imperial Fists geneseed is just bizarre so as it's all made up anyway, I just ignore that part and have my Iron Warriors be all heresy vets as they have always been :o

 

 

It's possible but with repercussions. I beleive Honshou was quite looked down upon for his IF geneseed.

[Spareknikov]

Fabius Bile, has been creating/cloning them for the different war bands from geneseed taken from fallen loyalists,

 

I recall there being a scrap of fluff in WD old 'Heroes and Villains of the 41st Millenium' articles, which once touched upon the histroy of Fabius Bile. There was one page which read like it was an excerpt from one of his books. Now this excerpt dealt with him mentioning his unlocking of the Emperor's Secrets of the Geneseed.

 

It also mentioned a womb of some kind, which would help 'create new Marines...' At the time I brushed it off as metaphorical. But recently a friend of mine (Pwcca, as he's known here) told me about one of the Ultramarine Novels (I'm not sure which one, but involved the character Uriel Ventris. Yeah, I can hear the tutting and forehead slapping now :P ) and in which the Iron Warriors would use a large womb like... thing... to make new Astartes. He also told me this book was to be treated as a sequel to SoI so I guess this was what they were doing with the Geneseed afterwards.

 

Seeing as The Mad Ol'Apothecary Dr.Bile :) has negotiated himself into a 'delicate position' between each of the Legions (considering the recent fluffs I'm not sure what this could mean now...) could it be that he has given or traded each Legion one of these Organic Reproduction Units (No idea what to call it :huh: ) ?

 

Of course, this is more than likely only ONE of the ways Chaos Marines recruit new members. ;)

 

EDIT: I didn't state clearly what the Womb-thing did or was supposed to do...

[TheDarkApostle]

Not to forget that there are also humans who can become blessed enough by the Gods to become of equal statue as a normal Marine. All you have to do then is slap some power armor on him.

 

TDA

[DuskRaider]

I still prescribe to the idea that most are still veterans of the Heresy. Think about it, each Legion varied in number, some were larger then others... Ultramarines spring to mind for the Loyalist half. Sons of Horus were even larger then Gulliman's boys, I'm pretty sure the Death Guard had a larger Legion then others, and the World Eaters would HAVE to have a good size due to Angron constantly just throwing them into frays with wreckless abandon.

 

Even after each Legion purged themselves of those still loyal to the Emperor, they still had at least 75% capacity when they reached Isstvan V. This battle was a pretty decisive victory and I see the Traitor Legions undergoing minimal loss.

 

From there, they hit Terra itself. Now this is where it varies. The World Eaters suffered incredible losses, but if you go by the idea they had a larger then average Legion, then they may have lost an additional 25% - 40% during the Siege on the Palace. Iron Warriors didn't suffer much loss at Terra, and even in the Iron Cage they pretty much mopped the floor with the 'Fists.

 

Sons of Horus also took a large amount of losses, as from what I gather they were right in there with the World Eaters, as were the Death Guard. By this time, however, Death Guard were already more or less all Plague Marines. Less losses by that fact alone. Thousand Sons had lost a small amount on Prospero when Space Wolves attacked, but thanks to Ahriman in the near future that wouldn't really matter anyhow.

 

So you've got World Eaters down by 64% since Isstvan III, Sons of Horus probably down 40-50%, Death Guard down perhaps 30-40%, and the others less so. Emperor's Children weren't all that large to begin with, but they more or less avoided the Palace during the attack on Terra. Alpha Legion was minimal in their attacks out in space, as were Night Lords.

 

So here we are... World Eaters may still have around 3,000 troops, the others more so. Most Legions retreat into the Eye of Terror, where time itself is irrelevant. Where one man could feel as though he's actually been in there for the full 10,000 years, to others it may only be a century or a year, perhaps even a day. Who knows? Of course there's inter-Legionary warring there too, but we'll pretend that those don't count for many losses at all. Also, as I've said before, there's theoretically still ships arriving in the Eye that to them have just left the battle on Terra.

 

Now come to the present. I can see Night Lords mainly being replaced due to the fact that they pretty much operate outside of the Maelstrom, the same goes for Alpha Legion. The other 7 Legions will still have the numbers of, at the very least, 2 whole Loyalist chapters of the present 40K timeline. That's at the very least. It must also be said that some, such as the World Eaters, Sons of Horus (now Black Legion), and Emperor's Children, have gone their own separate ways for one reason or another.

 

The Thousand Sons aren't really even a living Legion anymore, with the exception of their Sorcerers who do, in fact, date back to Great Crusade times. The Death Guard, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers have still kept their Pre-Heresy formations, so they're still in a sense actual Legions.

 

I do see the Traitor Legions recruiting from Renegade Chapters every now and then, but as shown in Storm of Iron, they would be looked down upon, especially if those Renegade's Geneseed was that of a rival Primarch. But for the most part I still believe that they're still bolstering their original numbers. Truthfully, if you think of how an actual Chaos planetary invasion works, there's very little actual Astartes present. Perhaps 200 at most, the majority of the attack being carried out by hundreds upon thousands upon millions of Traitor Guard, Mutants, Renegades, and Daemons. As I've said in the past, have a look at how the FOC works in IA:6. That's most likely how an actual force would be. A large majority being regular humans, a small number being Legionnaires. Just throw some daemons in for good measure.

 

Phew! Alright, I'm done now.

[the jeske]

after the legions went to the eye anothe legion war broke up . EC were making tons of sm and started to make horus clones . BL was battered a lot , and with few numbers abadon started encourging his troops to get possessed to make up for lack of bodies . He destroyed the clones and shortlly after that the EC and WE almost wiped themselfs up . the WE broke up and EC lost Fabius . the loses for those 3 legions were huge , but the legion war in eye was said to be the scale of the horus heresy was. it was also one of the main reason why most legions [religion put aside] dislike each other.

[Brother Nihm]

Fabius Bile, has been creating/cloning them for the different war bands from geneseed could it be that he has given or traded each Legion one of these Organic Reproduction Units (No idea what to call it :tu: ) ?

Daemoncubala is the term used in the books.

[The Blood Reaver]

The Red corsairs definetly do it . Why else would the steal an entire chapters stock of gene seed , other than to destroy it .

[TheDarkApostle]

The Red corsairs definetly do it . Why else would the steal an entire chapters stock of gene seed , other than to destroy it .

Taint it to get better favor with the Gods or to trade it with the Legions/other Renegades for supplies/favors.

 

TDA

[ferrum proeliator]

I still prescribe to the idea that most are still veterans of the Heresy. Think about it, each Legion varied in number, some were larger then others... Ultramarines spring to mind for the Loyalist half. Sons of Horus were even larger then Gulliman's boys, I'm pretty sure the Death Guard had a larger Legion then others, and the World Eaters would HAVE to have a good size due to Angron constantly just throwing them into frays with wreckless abandon.

 

Even after each Legion purged themselves of those still loyal to the Emperor, they still had at least 75% capacity when they reached Isstvan V. This battle was a pretty decisive victory and I see the Traitor Legions undergoing minimal loss.

 

From there, they hit Terra itself. Now this is where it varies. The World Eaters suffered incredible losses, but if you go by the idea they had a larger then average Legion, then they may have lost an additional 25% - 40% during the Siege on the Palace. Iron Warriors didn't suffer much loss at Terra, and even in the Iron Cage they pretty much mopped the floor with the 'Fists.

 

Sons of Horus also took a large amount of losses, as from what I gather they were right in there with the World Eaters, as were the Death Guard. By this time, however, Death Guard were already more or less all Plague Marines. Less losses by that fact alone. Thousand Sons had lost a small amount on Prospero when Space Wolves attacked, but thanks to Ahriman in the near future that wouldn't really matter anyhow.

 

So you've got World Eaters down by 64% since Isstvan III, Sons of Horus probably down 40-50%, Death Guard down perhaps 30-40%, and the others less so. Emperor's Children weren't all that large to begin with, but they more or less avoided the Palace during the attack on Terra. Alpha Legion was minimal in their attacks out in space, as were Night Lords.

 

So here we are... World Eaters may still have around 3,000 troops, the others more so. Most Legions retreat into the Eye of Terror, where time itself is irrelevant. Where one man could feel as though he's actually been in there for the full 10,000 years, to others it may only be a century or a year, perhaps even a day. Who knows? Of course there's inter-Legionary warring there too, but we'll pretend that those don't count for many losses at all. Also, as I've said before, there's theoretically still ships arriving in the Eye that to them have just left the battle on Terra.

 

Now come to the present. I can see Night Lords mainly being replaced due to the fact that they pretty much operate outside of the Maelstrom, the same goes for Alpha Legion. The other 7 Legions will still have the numbers of, at the very least, 2 whole Loyalist chapters of the present 40K timeline. That's at the very least. It must also be said that some, such as the World Eaters, Sons of Horus (now Black Legion), and Emperor's Children, have gone their own separate ways for one reason or another.

 

The Thousand Sons aren't really even a living Legion anymore, with the exception of their Sorcerers who do, in fact, date back to Great Crusade times. The Death Guard, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers have still kept their Pre-Heresy formations, so they're still in a sense actual Legions.

 

I do see the Traitor Legions recruiting from Renegade Chapters every now and then, but as shown in Storm of Iron, they would be looked down upon, especially if those Renegade's Geneseed was that of a rival Primarch. But for the most part I still believe that they're still bolstering their original numbers. Truthfully, if you think of how an actual Chaos planetary invasion works, there's very little actual Astartes present. Perhaps 200 at most, the majority of the attack being carried out by hundreds upon thousands upon millions of Traitor Guard, Mutants, Renegades, and Daemons. As I've said in the past, have a look at how the FOC works in IA:6. That's most likely how an actual force would be. A large majority being regular humans, a small number being Legionnaires. Just throw some daemons in for good measure.

 

Phew! Alright, I'm done now.

 

This seems so concise!! haha!!! I've been busy recently, polishing off HH books and I got the collected visions for my birthday, and the scale of the legions is quite apparent. Even if some of them lost the majority, they would still vastly outnumber space marine chapters, and 10,000 years of battle experience would put them at a major advantage. I just wish this would be reflected in the rules.

Furthermore, having read IA 5: Siege of Vraks and SoI, the limited number of space marines involved would also count in their favour. They don't really have any need to recruit. Maybe, in new codices, we'll get rules for renegade guardsmen to bolster our forces and act as an effective "meat shield.

[DuskRaider]

I really wish that would happen. Perhaps beef the Legionnaires greatly, but make them small in number and have X amount of Traitor Guard / Mutants / Beastmen to bolster their size more and whatnot.