farseerixirvost Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Am considering adding Huron Blackheart to my collection. As the sub-title implies, I'm curious if people find him good-decent-bad, worth the points, etc. Any tactical advice re: his use? Does he work well w/ particular units, not with others? Basically, give me all your Huron Blackheart data - good, bad, or otherwise... Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Darius Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'd say he's on par or slightly better than a with a Space Marine Chapter Master, without a Relic Blade. The heavy flamer makes him pretty scary for lightly armored units, he has both a power fist and power weapon which means he gets the best of both worlds with his warptime ability. He's an intimidating unit, and that makes him a target, he should be among a big unit that can soak up the fire directed at him. If they're a dedicated assault unit, that's icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Him having a PF and a PW make him pretty versitle and of course the WT make him good in hth. Can't go wrong with a hvy flamer, he's the only character in the game that can have one as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fintan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Him having a PF and a PW make him pretty versitle and of course the WT make him good in hth.Can't go wrong with a hvy flamer, he's the only character in the game that can have one as far as I know. Vulkan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahveel Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 quick question regarding his use in 5th (dont have my rulebook at work), can he split his atacks between the PW and PF? Ive been thinking of giving him a go against orks this weekend, should prove fairly mean. from the army entry alone, he seems to be a souped up chaos lord for a decent price. my intent is to run him with bile, and stick him in a unit of enhanced warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 quick question regarding his use in 5th (dont have my rulebook at work), can he split his atacks between the PW and PF? Ive been thinking of giving him a go against orks this weekend, should prove fairly mean. from the army entry alone, he seems to be a souped up chaos lord for a decent price. my intent is to run him with bile, and stick him in a unit of enhanced warriors. No, he has to pick one and make all his attacks with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahveel Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 yeah, thought it was something like that now. still, nice when that dread goes crashing into one of your units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farseerixirvost Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks, everyone. Keep the data coming! quick question regarding his use in 5th (dont have my rulebook at work), can he split his atacks between the PW and PF? No. pg. 42 rulebook. "Two different special weapons" (last thing on the page) he seems to be a souped up chaos lord for a decent price. I ran the math on his "cost". Ignoring certain rules, like how the Chaos Lord can only get one special weapon, and using costs listed in both the Sorcerer and Lord entries... If you simply start with a lord and add all of his kit (PW, PF, Familiar, WT) I believe it came to just under his actual points, maybe like 5 points less than his listed cost - BUT, there was no heavy flamer cost to draw from, so that is easily those last 5 points. In other words, if a Lord/Sorcerer COULD take what Huron has, he'd cost the same as Huron himself, if not more. Again, thanks, folks (but still hoping for 'more' on the subject). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 my intent is to run him with bile, and stick him in a unit of enhanced warriors. Forget bile, there was a thread not long ago about him and most seemed to think he wasn't that good (me included) also you don't need 2 expensive SC in the same army. You want to put him with an uber hth squad make it brzrkrs, they better at hth (and cheaper) then biles boys anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarInHeaven Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 i have used a count-as huron in multiple games, and i am very pleased whit him, (he even got a cople of man of the match awards) his flamer is good for everything not in power armour, his sword is good for mariens and his fist is good for characters and everything whit t5 or above, warp time gives those hard neaded re-rolls (noting so iritating as missing whit a fist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvarn Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think he is pretty cool, no uber monster but still decent although having a PF and a PW means he cant get +1 A for additional cc weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 his flamer is good for everything not in power armour, How is a TL'ed hvy flamer not good against pwr armor. If you position him right you can easily fit 8 guys under the template, str5 + reroll pretty much = autowound, that's alot of armor saves he has to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks, everyone. Keep the data coming! quick question regarding his use in 5th (dont have my rulebook at work), can he split his atacks between the PW and PF? No. pg. 42 rulebook. "Two different special weapons" (last thing on the page) he seems to be a souped up chaos lord for a decent price. I ran the math on his "cost". Ignoring certain rules, like how the Chaos Lord can only get one special weapon, and using costs listed in both the Sorcerer and Lord entries... If you simply start with a lord and add all of his kit (PW, PF, Familiar, WT) I believe it came to just under his actual points, maybe like 5 points less than his listed cost - BUT, there was no heavy flamer cost to draw from, so that is easily those last 5 points. In other words, if a Lord/Sorcerer COULD take what Huron has, he'd cost the same as Huron himself, if not more. Again, thanks, folks (but still hoping for 'more' on the subject). If you flip back a page you get the Terminator listings and they state 5pts for Heavy Flamer so yeah, Huron is exactly worth the points he's priced at... I've been tempted to run him in games previously too, anyone got tabletop experience with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahveel Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 its just a heavy flamer, not TL. my intent is to run him with bile, and stick him in a unit of enhanced warriors. Forget bile, there was a thread not long ago about him and most seemed to think he wasn't that good (me included) also you don't need 2 expensive SC in the same army. You want to put him with an uber hth squad make it brzrkrs, they better at hth (and cheaper) then biles boys anyway. oh, I know most dont like him, this is not really the place to discus bile, but the game is a friendly one and we are both taking 2 SC (I belive my oponent will be taking Wazdakka, grotsnick and/or the komando guy). besides, I want the squad to have acess to more than a plasma pistol, Huron seems to be a multi-purpose model, and I want his unit to complement that. going off topic, how is a berzerker cheaper than an enhanced marine? I'm prety sure they cost 3 points more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberrant_unc Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Does warptime allow him to reroll the to wounds on the heavy flamer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Does warptime allow him to reroll the to wounds on the heavy flamer? yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farseerixirvost Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Does warptime allow him to reroll the to wounds on the heavy flamer? yep IIRC, WT allows re-rolls of everything - hits, wounds, and saves. AND is not limited to shooting or assault. So agree, "yep". ;) Guess that makes it a "TL" Heavy Flamer after all - but only if the power is "on" (beware Eldar Farseers w/ Runes of Warding). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 going off topic, how is a berzerker cheaper than an enhanced marine? I'm prety sure they cost 3 points more.... 8 brzrkrs = 168 pts 8 enhanced csm's + bile to make them enhanced 144+160=304 getting up near double the cost. don't forget you have to add the cost of bile. and other then enhancing the csm's he doesn't do much. since you know you are fighting orks, bile (w/no PW) isn't as useless as he is against pwr armor, but the int.4 and no invul still really hurt him. if I had to use 2 SC's it would be blackheart and Khârn. As to what unit to put w/ blackheart if you want special weops, I would use reg csm's IoCG. If you wanted alittle more punch you could give them IoK. Bile and his enhanced just do not impress me, then add in that if you roll a 1 or 6 on the enhanced table something goes wrong and you either lose 3 guys (on adverage if you roll a 1) or lose a guy per turn (6-7 by the end of most games before the enemy even touches them. There are just better options in this dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Does warptime allow him to reroll the to wounds on the heavy flamer? yep IIRC, WT allows re-rolls of everything - hits, wounds, and saves. AND is not limited to shooting or assault. So agree, "yep". :( Guess that makes it a "TL" Heavy Flamer after all - but only if the power is "on" (beware Eldar Farseers w/ Runes of Warding). Warptime only lets you re-roll hits and wounds, not saves. Huron is an interesting character, but he suffers from lack of mobility and of course instant death. He seems like he'd be fun to play with, but i doubt i'd bring him to a tourny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahveel Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 ok, I can see how you say that, but bile does have his uses apart from the EW's. but, again, not the place to get into that. :lol: (in short, I'm the kind of chaos player that likes bile, dreads, spawn and possesed) good call on WT+the heavy flamer. I pull that trick on WoC, dont know why it didnt translate in my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Dont like him he has several drawbacks: Power fist and powersword. These are simply not great weapons, you normally would not give your lord this. Sure warptime makes a bit up for it but still, like already said he is not really cheap and you kinda pay for every upgrade. Slow... No option to take wings just hurts. A big no for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messanger of Death Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'd pick Huron just because he has so much flavour and the model is just so awesome. He isn't a daemon prince so I don't see why lack of mobility is that bad. Cheers, Messanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 lack of moblity for a unit that does stuff only in hth or short range is a problem . ugly model too. I remember some really nice hurons made durning the years . Game wise weak , with sub standard weapons for all the choices he steals from [you never arm a lord with fist or power weapon and if you take a warp time sorc you give him wings etc]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farseerixirvost Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 He isn't a daemon prince so I don't see why lack of mobility is that bad. Agreed. I understand and completely agree this guy *should* be in CC. But, you don't have to have wings/j-pack to be "mobile". Right? He can still ride in a transport; being the leader, I'd say a Land Raider (move, disembark, flame, assault - all in the same turn). And if said ride gets popped early, he can still run. Ok, so this is not a *great* way to be mobile, but it is a decent 'back-up plan'. I believe I'll have to give this guy a run or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 He can still ride in a transport; being the leader, I'd say a Land Raider so to make him work like a normal hq with wing you have to pay extra 230 pts[more then the cost of another HQ , that would make your army twice as mobile as a single unit in a LR], am I understanding that right? instead of just runing 2 hq with wings we should run one [less targets for enemy so easier to counter and for us less ways to counter stuff] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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