Marine Armoured Column

[rat of vengence]

Gday all. I have caught up with rest of the world and decided there is too much firepower on today's battlefield to take footslogging marines. I find my marines pinned to cover and often left stranded, or cut down by all the AP3 weapons every man and his zergling seem to be toting. ^_^

 

So I had a look at my tanks. I am thinking of running a Vindicator, Las/HBolter Pred, Whirlwind, Dreadnaught, Rhino, HBolter Razorback and a drop pod. Three tactical squads will be in the transports (drop pod kitted for antitank, others with flamer/missile and plasma/plasma cannon) as well as an outflankin scout squad. To support these elements will be an assault squad and outflanking scout bikes. :tu:

 

Have I gone with too many different 'bits'? I can put in a Landraider at the expense of the dread an assault squad.

 

Finally, the tactics bit. How do you esteemed brothers make an armoured column work?

 

I appreciate any help for this old dog trying out new tricks! :(

[Koremu]

At 1500 points I use a Land Raider with 5 Terminators and a Character, 2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos, a Vindicator, a Predator and a Whirlwind.

 

I generally seek to land heavily on whatever the enemies biggest anti-tank unit is, use the pie plates to lock down any threatening enemy units and then bring the Rhinos on from reserve to secure the objectives while the armour contest the enemy held objectives.

[kaiserstole20]

I'm designing a list with 2x vindicators, 10x shooty terminators, 2x dreadnoughts, and a 'Godhammer' Land Raider with a MotF and servitors inside. Tac marines will follow behind the move and shoot wall, the dreads will protect the flanks. If anything gets popped, the MotF and servitors are there to repair the damage.

 

Should be fun to try but I don't have all the models yet.

[rat of vengence]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

 

@Koremu. I like the idea of holding back the tac squads til later for holding your own objective. Do you find the Whirly lasts long enough without a nearby Tac squad to cover it?

 

@kaiserstole20. Sounds interesting. Thats plenty of firepower heading downrange.

 

RoV

[Resv]

Doesn't taking a Land Raider in any form count as a Heavy Support slot? Forgive me if I am mistaken.

[Banville]

You can take it as a Termie dedicated transport.

 

I'd always use the ol' refused flank when using armoured columns. Drive at just one of your opponent's flanks with everything metal and rolling that you have. When you collapse it proceed to roll up the rest. I'd leave one Tactical with maybe a Dreadnought "guard dog" at home positioned about halfway along your deployment zone in order to counter any sneaky outflanking manouevers.

[Jackelope King]

Land Raiders can be taken as Dedicated Transports for Terminator Squads. You can also take one of them as a Heavy Support choice, sans a unit to transport.

[Koremu]

@Koremu. I like the idea of holding back the tac squads til later for holding your own objective. Do you find the Whirly lasts long enough without a nearby Tac squad to cover it?

 

There's a Land Raider, a Vindicator and a Predator between the Whirlwind and anything that wants to kill it. Most of the time the enemy can't see it, and there are always higher priority targets on the field. It rarely even gets shot at. Anything that is sufficiently determined to kill it will do so of course, but very few things like to do that for a completely vanilla whirlwind that is within range of a reserve counterstrike by the aforementioned tactical squad.

 

When using a mech list, lighter vehicles tend not to draw genuine AT fire. It's why Land Speeders work far better in mech lists than any other. They don't suffer from the barrage of Krak+ AT weaponry when there are Vindies, Preds and Raiders about. Likewise the Razorbacks extra weapon options become a lot more tempting when the likelyhood of them getting instantly vapourised is lessened.

[Resv]

Ahh, just had to get that cleared up!

 

If you ever plan to take Khan in an army I would think you might consider putting him in this one just to see how Outflank might work for you. At 165 points he is a bit of a steal and pretty handy in a fight. Dreads don't make the best of Defensive units but parking him for fire support isn't a bad idea as long as you have him kitted out for the role.

 

Your fast units are going to be the sucker punch, bikes and assault troops work very well with tanks. What ever you do I would try to hold on to one or both of these and give them a shot in a few games.

 

When using a mech list, lighter vehicles tend not to draw genuine AT fire. It's why Land Speeders work far better in mech lists than any other. They don't suffer from the barrage of Krak+ AT weaponry when there are Vindies, Preds and Raiders about. Likewise the Razorbacks extra weapon options become a lot more tempting when the likelyhood of them getting instantly vapourised is lessened.

 

I wouldn't always count on this. Since Killhammer became required reading at my local club Transports have been preferred prey. While I do agree that Vindicators, Predators, and Land Raiders are FAR more imposing than transports, transports take less to put down. I got an incredibly lucky series of hits with my Thunderfire Cannon against a Rhinos and a Razorback. My Scatter was so far off on two of the hits that I managed to hit both units wrecking one and disabling the turret on the Razorback.

 

A flight of Krack Missiles or other AT fire at the beginning of the game might just ding some paint off of a Land Raider and stun a Vindicator. That same flight could be used to fundamentally screw your entire battle plan. Making it a chore to get any of your troops into position to score. Removing your opponents ability to move and advance can sometimes do more damage than taking out that Land Raider in the first turn.

[rat of vengence]

Good points Resv. I also like the idea of Khan, except having your armour arrive piecemeal (Especially against guard with the Fleet guy messing things up) is asking for it to be taken down before I can amass enough to supress the fire.

 

But yes, I won't be taking my transports safety for granted.

 

The idea of the tac squad in a drop pod was against armoured foes it lands near/in cover in no-mans land, and deploys with its melta, combi-melta/fist and multimelta. Creates a no-go area for armour. Situation depending, I could drop it closer as a spoiler unit that NEEDS to be killed, while the rest of my army trundles up all guns blazing.

 

We will see how it goes.

 

RoV

[ShinyRhino]

In my opinion, the key to an armoured column is "redundancy".

You want pairs of things that will be your hardest hitters or most valuable players, unless they're rock-hard.

You'll want some form of spearhead, in the form of a Vindicator or Land Raider. These tanks have the best firepower and armor. Then you need flank movers like barebones Predators, or Razorbacks. Put the mobile infantry inthe center/rear and roll out.

Whirlwinds are great for target suppression. Pinning the unit near/on the objective of your strike is invaluable for unloading your tacticals unmolested.

[Koremu]

It should be emphatically noted that one of the best things to do with Rhinos is to run them behind your Predator and Vindicator. The Rhino gets mobile cover, the Vindicator gets its ass protected, and anything that comes around to shoot your Rhino from the side is probably close enough that you wanted your Tactical Squad to dismount anyway.

 

And yeah, people blow up Rhinos. Mostly I aim my Tacticals at the two closest objectives and just deny any others, so the Rhinos aren't that critical to the eventual execution of the plan. They just make it happen slightly faster, and with a bit more flexibility.

 

Go ahead, waste your Krak missiles on my Rhinos.

[Ming]

I find in some games you need the rhinos in which to protect the transportees anyways. If the opponent is using lots of long range heavy firepower / templates, the best place for the tac squad is the rhino. They have to wreck it before you start losing more valuable troops. That said, opponents with lots of fast attack (like bikers) wreck that idea compeltely, since you do not want to be in the rhino if they have the ability to surround it and destroy it (no exits, you die). My tacs run las-plas mostly, so being in a rhino makes you a razor-wannabbee.

[Warp Angel]

Ahh, just had to get that cleared up!

 

If you ever plan to take Khan in an army I would think you might consider putting him in this one just to see how Outflank might work for you. At 165 points he is a bit of a steal and pretty handy in a fight. Dreads don't make the best of Defensive units but parking him for fire support isn't a bad idea as long as you have him kitted out for the role.

 

Your fast units are going to be the sucker punch, bikes and assault troops work very well with tanks. What ever you do I would try to hold on to one or both of these and give them a shot in a few games.

 

When using a mech list, lighter vehicles tend not to draw genuine AT fire. It's why Land Speeders work far better in mech lists than any other. They don't suffer from the barrage of Krak+ AT weaponry when there are Vindies, Preds and Raiders about. Likewise the Razorbacks extra weapon options become a lot more tempting when the likelyhood of them getting instantly vapourised is lessened.

 

I wouldn't always count on this. Since Killhammer became required reading at my local club Transports have been preferred prey. While I do agree that Vindicators, Predators, and Land Raiders are FAR more imposing than transports, transports take less to put down. I got an incredibly lucky series of hits with my Thunderfire Cannon against a Rhinos and a Razorback. My Scatter was so far off on two of the hits that I managed to hit both units wrecking one and disabling the turret on the Razorback.

 

A flight of Krack Missiles or other AT fire at the beginning of the game might just ding some paint off of a Land Raider and stun a Vindicator. That same flight could be used to fundamentally screw your entire battle plan. Making it a chore to get any of your troops into position to score. Removing your opponents ability to move and advance can sometimes do more damage than taking out that Land Raider in the first turn.

 

Which is why a land raider and vindicator make good screening units for your transports. :) Adapt and apply the sacred "S" grasshopper. The landspeeder and thunderfire (referring in part to the person you quoted) become amazing in a list with heavy armor and transports. Heavy armor can be deferred til later, but if you're going after the transports, you're leaving two glass cannons (with big cannons) able to inflict serious harm. Regardless of what choice your opponent makes, barring good dice, you should still be able to maintain or expand the kill gap.

 

As a side note, I'm extremely flattered that my topics have become "required reading". Please make sure to pay attention to the comments, not just my original posts. Plenty of other people have contributed greatly to the articles down there.

 

And now, you'll have to excuse me, this thread has inspired me to write a new article... Killhammer Strategy: Heavy Weapons.

[Resv]

Which is why I said you shouldn't always count on your transports not coming under fire or being treated as less important. "Remember the Mission" and "S for Success" are written on the sides of my Land Raider, Vindicator, and Razorback:). Actually "Remember the Mission" is even written on my company standard.

 

As for targeting Transports, the major point I was trying to make is that it takes less to damage/destroy one. Where my lucky Thunderfire shots managed to do some serious damage to both transports they would have bounced right off the sides of a Land Raider. I really do agree with Koremu that you can force your opponent to deal with your Big Guns from the start but I try to never take anything for granted. If your opponent is worth their codex they will have their own big guns and so on and you might find yourself dealing with an equal problem.

[Bosco]

In my mechanized lists I pick one edge to rush and position my vindicator and predator in the shadow of my Landraider so their flimsy side armor is concealed by the AV14 bulk full of thunder hammer loving. The tac squad(s) in rhinos follow in this same shadow, and the whole army uses the short board edge to further limit the potential incoming fire. Given the different movement rates (12" for the LR and rhinos, 6" for the vindicator or razorbacks) the army develops an angled approach into the enemy lines, continuing to hide units behind the LR as they get closer, as shown in the crappy attempt at diagrams below. This works best against relatively static armies like guard or Tau which typically have relatively few out flankers to threaten your advance. I also like to drop a single drop pod directly across my advance to further throw that flank into disarray and give my opponent yet another headache to deal with.

 

 

R=rhino

P=predator

V=vindicator

LR=land raider

(please forgive the place holding dots in the second diagram for formatting/spacing)

 

 

At deployment:

----------------------------------------

enemy lines

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

P V R LR

 

-----------------------------------------

 

 

After a turn or two:

-----------------------------------------

enemy lines

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

.......R.LR

 

...V

 

P

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Obviously these are not to scale, nor do they feature any terrain, but I feel they get the idea across well enough for someone to visualize the concept.

[Koremu]

Which is why a land raider and vindicator make good screening units for your transports. B) Adapt and apply the sacred "S" grasshopper. The landspeeder and thunderfire (referring in part to the person you quoted) become amazing in a list with heavy armor and transports. Heavy armor can be deferred til later, but if you're going after the transports, you're leaving two glass cannons (with big cannons) able to inflict serious harm. Regardless of what choice your opponent makes, barring good dice, you should still be able to maintain or expand the kill gap.

 

I'm less fond of the Thunderfire for the simple fact that it is so static. I prefer to begin most Armoured Column games with the majority of the force in reserve, and often all of it. By allowing your opponent to develop his attack forward you can respond with a directed short range assault.

 

Speeders, obviously, are just crazy good. Their supermobility and high speed allow them to reposition and respond to the flow of battle very swiftly, be it as a high speed 'splash and dash' Heavy Flamer platform, a 'skirmish skimmer' with Heavy Bolter and Frag Missiles, or a Tank Hunter squadron. Personally I prefer to keep my Speeders individually cheap, but use full squadrons with a varied load-out to help ensure survivability for whichever weapons system is most critical at the time.

[rat of vengence]

GREAT IDEAS ALL! This is exactly what I was after. And thanks for the PM Koremu :tu:.

 

I can see what you guys are describing, and it looks good. I was originally think of screening my tanks with rhinos, but that just gives a soft target and leaves my troops stranded again :( . Wall of AV14/13 FTW!

 

I think I will still run with outflanking scouts, since two units of outflankers (CC scouts and meltabomb scout bikes) should make the opponent wary of being to close to the flanks, possibly making it easier to run up on. A quick thought as I type though; would I prefer NOT to have the enemy bunched in the middle where he can concentrate his fire to either side? Or is it worth it to have bunched targets for the Whirlwind?

 

I will put up an army list later this afternoon (Oz time ;) ) in the appropriate place for comments; I will link to it here.

 

Thanks for the continuing contributions all!

 

RoV

[rat of vengence]

Okay all. Here is the army list I was thinking of. Let me know what you would do differently!

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...=0#entry2012872

 

RoV