Multiple Units in Assault Resolution

[Redleg]

I've read and re-read the multiple units in the assault rules, independent character rules, and instant death rules...and my buddy and I are still confused. Hope somebody can talk us through this:

 

A unit of 4 Meganobz and one Warboss in Mega Armour (Warboss attached) assault a squad of Tactical Marines. During the Assault move, the Warboss (and only the Warboss) is able to get into base to base combat with a Dreadnought. The remaining Meganobz are in contact with the Tacticals.

 

The assault takes place in initiative order...the Tacticals inflict one unsaved wound on the Meganobz (killing one...as the Nob already had one wound). The Dreadnought, only in base contact with the Warboss, scores two hits with the DCCW. One hit kills the Warboss per Independent Characters in Assault rules. Can the second hit be allocated to another Meganob or is the Dreadnought forced to allocate both to the IC he was in contact with?

 

If the remaining Meganobz kill 3 Marines as the Dreadnought cannot be targeted (no Ork in contact with it)...how is Winner of the Assault determined? From the rules...this is how I interpret it:

 

The Ork player scored 3 unsaved wounds. The Marine player scored 3 unsaved wounds. Combat is a draw.

 

Or...do the Tacticals lose their combat as they only inflicted 1 unsaved wound and the Meganobz inflicted 3 thus forcing a Morale check on the Marines AND The Dreadnought wins the combat with 2 unsaved wounds while the Orks scored zero hits on the Dread...thus forcing an Ork Morale test.

 

Finally...does the Dreadnought get any sort of consolidation move since it is no longer in contact with any Ork after killing the Warboss?

 

Thanks a lot...this was the 2nd to last turn of a close game and my friend and I aren't certain if we ruled it correctly.

[JamesI]

The combat is a tie, 3-3. The Dread's hits must all go to the Warboss.

 

And the dread has to stay in the combat, with a pile in move. If he can not reach base to base with a nob, then he breaks off from the combat.

[Seahawk]

You'd include the dreadnought's wounds because the warboss is still a part of the nobz unit. You'd have to check your math too; the marines side would win the combat 5-3 (4 for the warboss, 1 for nob). On page 39 under assault results, you "include all of the Wounds lost by models that have suffered instant death." So if that warboss was unwounded (which I'm assuming it was), the dreadnought actually caused four wounds on the warboss by smashing it, instead of just two (as the dread is in combat with only the IC, he'd have to allocate all his attacks there).

[Legatus]

Seahawk is correct, but a Warboss only has 3 wounds, so the Marines win by 4.

 

The Warboss is only independent for the purpose of working out attacks. The Dread was still in combat with a unit of meganobs with attached warboss, so he piles in after the combat has been resolved and if the meganobs did not run away.

[angronn]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Warboss have to move first to get into combat? As a result, if the assault was declared against the Tactical Marines, would he not be required to get into combat with them if it was possible to do so (as per the "moving assaulting units" rules)?

[Rosicrucian]

The closest assaulting model moves first which may or may not be the warboss.

 

BBB pg 34

[rat of vengence]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Warboss have to move first to get into combat? As a result, if the assault was declared against the Tactical Marines, would he not be required to get into combat with them if it was possible to do so (as per the "moving assaulting units" rules)?

Close, but the IC moving first is only when reacting to an assault p49.

 

RoV

[Redleg]

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

I never realized the Dreadnought inflicted 3 wounds with one hit on the unwounded Warboss, plus the wound from the Marines. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm assuming then that the Dreadnought's second attack is just "wasted?" So the Marines would win by 1 wound (3 from Warboss plus 1 from Nob versus 3 dead Marines).

 

And in the game (my writing wasn't crystal clear), the Warboss assaulted the Dreadnought while the rest of the Nobs only had the movement to make it to the Marines.

 

For what it's worth...appreciate the knowledge of the forum. Amazing what I don't pick up after reading the rulebook numerous times.

[Aidoneus]

The marines win 4-3, and this is why. The dreadnought inflicts 2 wounds on the Warboss. Because at least one of those insta-kill him, he then also loses his third wound. Therefore, the Dread counts as inflicting 3 wounds. It's a fine distinction, but the fact is he didn't insta-kill with one wound and then waste the second, although one wound alone would have done the trick. In fact, both wounds counted, and then both insta-killed, and it was the insta-killing that actually did less (removed the last 1 wound rather than the last 2) in this case.

 

At any rate, add those 3 wounds to the 1 scored by the marines, and there's your 4-3 victory.

[Legatus]

Whether the Dread inflicted two wounds on the Boss and insta-kill took the third or whether he insta-killed all 3 wounds with the first inflicted wound and wasted teh second one does not really make a difference for combat resolution, does it?

 

In fact, he did kill the Warboss with the first inflicted wound and wasted the second one, since if he had swung at a mob of nobs the two wounds he inflicted would have gone to two different nobs, auto killing them, and not both one one nob, wasting the auto kill potential, so as soon as a model is wounded and auto killed by the first wound the second one goes to the next model or is wasted.

[Aidoneus]

That would be the case if the dreadnought's two attacks hit at different initiatives. However, they hit at the same time, so there is no "first wound" or "second wound" to speak of.

 

The progression is this:

-Dreadnought rolls to-hit and to-wound (causing 2 wounds)

-wounds are allocated (both to warboss, because he's the only model in CC with the dread)

-saving throws are made (either none are allowed or both are failed)

-model takes wounds (down from 3 to 1)

-"Instant Death" rule takes effect, because the model took wounds whose strength were twice its toughness (so BOTH attacks cause instant death at the same time)

-Warboss loses remaining wound

 

And no, it doesn't matter for resolution purposes. Redleg just asked about the specific progression, and I was answering his question.

[angronn]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Warboss have to move first to get into combat? As a result, if the assault was declared against the Tactical Marines, would he not be required to get into combat with them if it was possible to do so (as per the "moving assaulting units" rules)?

Close, but the IC moving first is only when reacting to an assault p49.

 

RoV

 

Ah, indeed. Thanks for the correction.

[Redleg]

That would be the case if the dreadnought's two attacks hit at different initiatives. However, they hit at the same time, so there is no "first wound" or "second wound" to speak of.

 

The progression is this:

-Dreadnought rolls to-hit and to-wound (causing 2 wounds)

-wounds are allocated (both to warboss, because he's the only model in CC with the dread)

-saving throws are made (either none are allowed or both are failed)

-model takes wounds (down from 3 to 1)

-"Instant Death" rule takes effect, because the model took wounds whose strength were twice its toughness (so BOTH attacks cause instant death at the same time)

-Warboss loses remaining wound

 

And no, it doesn't matter for resolution purposes. Redleg just asked about the specific progression, and I was answering his question.

 

This clears it up remarkably. Thanks.

[Legatus]

he progression is this:

-Dreadnought rolls to-hit and to-wound (causing 2 wounds)

-wounds are allocated (both to warboss, because he's the only model in CC with the dread)

-saving throws are made (either none are allowed or both are failed)

-model takes wounds (down from 3 to 1)

-"Instant Death" rule takes effect, because the model took wounds whose strength were twice its toughness (so BOTH attacks cause instant death at the same time)

-Warboss loses remaining wound

It is incorrect, though.

 

If among the unsaved wounds there are some that inflict instant death, the player must first, if possible, remove one unwounded model for each unsaved wound that causes instant death, and then proceed as normal

- Rulebook, page 26

 

So when you inflict multiple autokill wounds, the procedure is to remove one multiple wound model for each of those wounds, in other words, a model gets one wound and dies, another model gets a wound and dies. You do not put both wounds on one single model with multiple wounds before isntant death takes effect.

[Aidoneus]

I think we're getting into an issue of semantics now. Since both hits inflict instant death, they both trigger this rule simultaneously, not one at a time. So they both inflict instant death together. Whether you want to say they each cause the 1 wound first, and ID removes the third, or whether you want to say neither wound in the normal sense, and they both simultaneously inflict ID to remove all 3 wounds, is sort of a moot point. The fact is, they are both efficacious, even though their effects overlap.

[Legatus]

It does not affect the situation either way, but I had gotten the impression from your initial post that you were explaining that it did.

[Redleg]

As a follow up question, since the Marines won the combat both the Dreadnought and the Tactical Squad gets a chance at a sweeping advance right? Page 41 of the BRB states (though not crystal clear to me) that any winning unit can make a sweeping advance. If so...do the Meganobz roll just one time? And both the Dread and the Tacticals get a chance to beat it?

[Gunstar]

When the meganobz lose the combat they roll for morale- IF they fail their morale check at Leadership 7 THEN you roll off against your initiative. You roll one dice for each unit that you have in the combat, so the dread and the tac squad- your opponent also rolls a dice for the Nobz and you compare the outcomes. If your total is equal to or higher than his with either the dread OR the tac squad (your base initiative+D6 against his base initiative+D6) then you catch the fleeing meganobz with a sweeping advance and kill them, if it is lower with both then the nobz fall back 2D6 as normal.

[angry man]

are you sure thats how it works? - i always thought that you chose the highest initiative value from the winning side (in this case 4) and the highest initiative from the losing side (in this case the warboss) then each role one dice add the appropriate initiative, and compare that way. maybe i got it wrong?

 

AM

[Legatus]

- Each fleeing unit rolls once for D6+Initiative

 

- Each pursuing unit rolls once for D6+Initiative

 

- Fleeing units that roll equal or lower than any of the pursuing units they were engaged with are caught

 

- Fleeing units that roll higher than all of the pursuing units they were engaged with get away

[Aidoneus]

- Each fleeing unit rolls once for D6+Initiative

- Each pursuing unit rolls once for D6+Initiative

- Fleeing units that roll equal or lower than any of the pursuing units they were engaged with are caught

- Fleeing units that roll higher than all of the pursuing units they were engaged with get away

What he said. ;)

[Frosty the Pyro]

are you sure thats how it works? - i always thought that you chose the highest initiative value from the winning side (in this case 4) and the highest initiative from the losing side (in this case the warboss) then each role one dice add the appropriate initiative, and compare that way. maybe i got it wrong?

 

AM

 

Aditionaly for each unit you use the majority initive, you only use the highest if there is no majority (so you use the meganobz initive not the warbosses), course its moot in this case as the warboss is dead.