How can you use Jump Marines effectively?

[thade]

I'm very new to WH40K, so new that the last piece in my first army (from AoBR) is finally drying and I'm looking for ways to expand my army. In the RTSs assault marines are effective and really fun, and they look like they could be effective and fun in the table top as well...but it seems like everywhere I see variations on the following statement:

 

"Assault marines are useless."

 

Justifications are either they die too fast, don't put out enough damage, or both.

 

So here I'm asking directly...how can you make use of assault marines on the field?

 

Thanks in advance. =)

[Dragax]

well, i havent played many games myself, but from my few, they are certainley not useless!!

 

Advance them as much as you can using cover where viable, put pressure on your enemies.

 

Another note, try to send something up with them, a rhino with a tactical squad for instance, adds to the pressure, and rhino acts as mobile cover

[the jeske]

in blood angels when they are scoring and you can run both characters that support them [tycho or chapter master] and elite units that are just as fast and use the same mechanic for wining [VAS/DC].

[Banville]

The trouble with Assault Marines is the fact that they're non scoring. However they can be very effective on the charge against troops with a 4+ save (or worse) or against small, isolated groups of 3+ save troops. I'd use a squad of ten with a Powerfist, two flamers and accompanied by a Chaplain. The amount of damage it can do is really quite impressive.

 

On a negative note, minimum sized or small squads of Assault Marines do very little except die.

[CylonDorado]

I would think they would be awsome for supporting something in an otherwise drawn out combat.

[ShinyRhino]

Some quick guidelines for using Assault Marines in a Codex chapter...

 

Bring a large squad. 7+ is ideal. Never less than that. A squad of smaller than 7 or 8 lacks the wounds and attacks to make any real dent in anything, especially things in power armour.

 

NEVER deepstrike Assault Marines. If you insist on leaving them in reserve, always have them jump in from the board edge. Why? Because Assault Marines that come in by deepstrike can't assault. You have to drop one model on the board, roll for scatter, and then cluster the squad around that one model in a nice, tight circle. Fodder for artillery and other templates. Sure, the Marines can Run or fire pistols when they come in, but the return hits they'll take will tear them apart. In my first ever game with them, I dropped a 5-man squad in by deepstrike behind enemy lines (IG gunline). I'd planned to charge next turn with my powerfist, but got turned to meaty chunks by a Leman Russ Battlecannon shot. No saves, no chance of survival.

 

Take at least one power weapon or powerfist. You need those to get past armor saves. Even piddling Guardsmen get a save versus your standard attacks, so you want to be able to punch their faces to custard with a powerfist or chop them down with a powersword. Guaranteed kills if you wound. Typical combos for the sergeant are powerfist and bolt pistol, or powersword and meltabombs. Both allow you to kill off tanks, should you manage to charge one.

 

Plasma pistols are expensive now, but I still find them to be useful, especially against Marines, light vehicles (walkers, Rhinos, etc), and Nids.

 

Lots of folks will scream "two flamers!" for a full 10-man squad. I've not fielded this setup yet, but it should work beautifully against any horde army (Orks, Guard, Nids). You just have to be careful when maneuvering for the charge that you don't leave yourself open to a charge beforehand! The best way to do that is to have your Assault marines jump over difficult or impassable terrain to hit non-jump infantry. Jump packers can ignore difficult terrain so long as they don't land IN it. Got 8" of woods between you and some Orks? They might be hesitant to try to charge you, because they might get bogged downin the brush, while you can leap rightover it all, unleash flamers and pistols, and then charge the survivors.

[Fintan]

I'm a big fan of the 10 man Assault Squad with a Power-Fist and 2x Flamers, I also run a Chaplain with mine for some extra hurt. In 1000pt games there isn't a lot they can't hurt or destroy on the charge and against Horde armies they're absolutely invaluable. Plus, I think the models are stunning and really sum up what Space Marines should be all about: Fast, Precise, Merciless and Power-armoured.

 

Flamers are *amazing* in 5th Edition and having two in the same squad with a 12inch movement really scares your enemy if his troops aren't locked away in transports.

[battle captain corpus]

Great counter assault unit, though 5 man squads are too fragile.

 

Bump up their numbers, fly them alongside a Tac sauad and wait for Tac squad to get assaulted, then jump the boys in. :D

 

Corpus

[Chaplian Silkor]

I always field a 10-man assault squad with 3 Plasma Pistols (2 normal marines, 1 sergeant) and a Power Weapon together with my chappy. Not really the ideal combination, but it works with my fluff and off course in my gaming group since there aren't that many hord-type armies ... or there weren't used to be :) (darned new imperial guard codex :D)

 

The assault squad's main purpose, or at least it has been told like this to me, is to deal out as many wounds as possible, so your enemy will have to take many saves from which he should fail some. That's also why most people take flamers so they can soften up their target before charging in.

The sergeant is often given a Power fist or Thunder hammer to deal with armour or high T enemies who assaulted your squad.

 

P.S. make sure that you are close enough to your target after your movement phase. It often happened to me that I shot them and the enemy would take away casualties in such way so I would fail my assault in matter of millimeters. Not really funny to have to face another turn of rapidfire shooting :D

[Hubernator]

3 ten man assault sqauds is what I'm planning, one of which will be Vanguard. In larger numbers they'd have greater chance of getting across the battlefiled in numbers and cause havoc :D

 

Here's a thought, can't assault/vanguard squads deepstrike?

[Jackelope King]

I use a squad of 10 periodically with two flamers. The sergeant gets a sub-optimal choice of a plasma pistol for one and only one reason: I like the way it looks with two pistols better than with a pistol and a power fist.

 

To use the Killhammer parlance, standard Assault Squads are Cleaners. They're supposed to swoop in alongside a real killy unit, like TH/SS Termies or a bike command squad and finish off the enemy squad. Two flamers, 8 bolt pistol shots, and then 28 attacks on the charge won't kill hard, dedicated assault troops, but sending these guys in after or alongside your Killers will tip things in your favor.

[ShinyRhino]

Here's a thought, can't assault/vanguard squads deepstrike?

 

Both are able to deepstrike. See my post above regarding deepstriking Assault Marines. Just don't do it.

 

Vanguard might be a little better at it, since they have Heroic Intervention, which allows them to assault the turn they land. but they can fall victim to large scatter rolls which push them outside assault range, and then they've wasted the element of surprise.

[Koremu]

Assault Marines (and Vanguard) can Deep Strike. However, doing so with Assault Marines means they can't assault, and doing so with Vanguard means spending the insane number of points it costs them for Heroic Intervention.

 

If you are doing it (and it can work), I would invest in some scout bikes with Locator Beacons (or take Beacons on some pods, if you are running pods), and seeking to bring the Assault Squad down in a good position to use their flamers and bolt pistols on the landing turn.

 

Mostly however, I would leave 1 squad in normal table edge reserve, and use it as a counter assault unit.

[Muctar]

In my experience, which, granted, is not extensive, I've found that 5-man assault squads are free kills for your opponent and a points-sink. 10-man squads are great though, especially with 2 plasma pistols (on marines), power fist sargeant, and a jump pack chaplain (w/ plasma pistol). They pack a real punch after moving up using cover/rhino cover, fire off 8 bolt pistols, 3 plasmas, then charge in with 27 attacks (or 9 kraks), 4 power weapon attacks, AND 4 power fist attacks, all of which get to re-roll any failed rolls to hit. Pretty much cripples anything you come up against, then finish off in their turn. :D

[Warp Angel]

I use a squad of 10 periodically with two flamers. The sergeant gets a sub-optimal choice of a plasma pistol for one and only one reason: I like the way it looks with two pistols better than with a pistol and a power fist.

 

To use the Killhammer parlance, standard Assault Squads are Cleaners. They're supposed to swoop in alongside a real killy unit, like TH/SS Termies or a bike command squad and finish off the enemy squad. Two flamers, 8 bolt pistol shots, and then 28 attacks on the charge won't kill hard, dedicated assault troops, but sending these guys in after or alongside your Killers will tip things in your favor.

 

In addition to the above, pay attention to Shiny Rhino and Koremu. They have good advice.

 

Assault squads (even with a chaplain) aren't ever going to be awesome killer units against most troop choices. They lack power weapons/high strength weapons to do a whole lot.

 

1) You need a numeric advantage for assault Marines to take on MEQs successfully without becoming tarpitted.

2) You have no business taking on enemy assault troops, who are usually BETTER than or equal to your assault Marines. This includes virtually every variety of Chaos Space Marines. Unless you have overwhelming numbers.

3) There is very little in the Marine arsenal that can match an assault squad's ability to mop the floor with units weaker than MEQs (guardians, guard, tau, gaunts, sisters)

4) Assault Marines are no more survivable in the open than regular marines, but are much faster, and properly played can be a game breaker.

 

So what is proper playing of them?

a) Wiping the floor with weak enemy infantry

:) Tank hunters - you'd be surprised at what 9 krak grenades and a powerfist or thunder hammer can do to most armor, and you're fast enough (18" range) to get there.

c) Providing a countercharge unit to break up an enemy charge or support one of your own - the classic Killhammer "Cleaner" role. Their speed is critical here.

d) I can see them used as a Killhammer "Hunter". 3 Plasma pistols makes a middle sized (7 -8 man) squad a threat to enemy elites and monstrous creatures. Two flamers and a combi-flamer is absolute horde destruction and great for rooting an enemy out of cover. The problem here is that they can't do both at the same time.

e) Working with 1 or more characters to create a "Killer". If you add Shrike and a chaplain to an assault squad, you suddenly become incredibly potent in the assault, able to wreck even most dedicated hand to hand units. The I4 will be problematic and mean that you're going to take casualties relatively quickly with unit performance degrading accordingly, but for the first couple charges, you're going to be a wrecking ball.

 

My issue with Assault Marines is that MOST things that they can do bikes can also do, and do it better.

i) T5 is arguably as good or better as the additional attack for dealing with weak enemy infantry. You don't kill as much, but you don't die as much either, keeping your squad intact and potent for longer.

ii) You get one less krak grenade with the bikes, but the attack bike has a multi-melta, and the bikes can have up to two melta guns for hunting tanks.

iii) They're just as fast as assault marines for most countercharge roles.

iv) 1 plasma pistol, 2 plasma guns that are relentless, and a multi melta are better than 3 plasma pistols. 2 flamers, a combi flamer, and a heavy bolter are better than 2 flamers and a combi flamer. Unlike assault squads, bikes can mix and match anti-tank/anti-elite/anti-horde in one squad reasonably well.

v) Chappy on a bike + Captain on a bike (or Khan) do just about as well as any assault marine mix.

 

Additional Assault Marine pro/cons

- T4 high visibility target

+ Can avoid difficult terrain by moving over it

+ Can go up levels in buildings

+ Relatively lower cost compared to bikes

[tedwin183]

I just run mine behind a wall of land raiders. keeps them hidden and once the termies pop out and charge something, i typically will let the termies stay in combat for a turn and then counter assault with my ASM. works wonders.

[Giga]

The reason I don't like assault marines is because they're damn fragile AND too specialized for my taste.

 

The thing is, they suffer from being in cover (dangerous terrain tests due to jump packs) and they have no transport to protect them. Big guns are therefore a huge problem to assault marines.

 

On the other hand, they aren't scoring (which they definitely should be, imho) and they are nowhere near as great in assault as most other specialized assault units.

 

Additionally, assault marines can be entirely useless against certain armies (nidzilla, for example). All this combined makes me very reluctant to take assaulties in my lists.

[kaiserstole20]

I know conventional wisdom is against small squads, but I have used a 5 man squad w/PF effectively, sometimes with a Chaplain. I advance these behind my main line and just 'pile on' wherever CC is taking place. I use them to support dreadnoughts on my flank or advancing terminators in the middle. They certainly can't carry combat by themselves but do increase the CC potential of a dreadnought and provide a sweeping advance to the terminators.

 

Their ability to deliver a power fist anywhere on my line is great and often all that's needed to swing a battle in my favor. Against weak units, transports, and some tanks I can take them on just with the 5 assault marines.

[Warp Angel]

I know conventional wisdom is against small squads, but I have used a 5 man squad w/PF effectively, sometimes with a Chaplain. I advance these behind my main line and just 'pile on' wherever CC is taking place. I use them to support dreadnoughts on my flank or advancing terminators in the middle. They certainly can't carry combat by themselves but do increase the CC potential of a dreadnought and provide a sweeping advance to the terminators.

 

Their ability to deliver a power fist anywhere on my line is great and often all that's needed to swing a battle in my favor. Against weak units, transports, and some tanks I can take them on just with the 5 assault marines.

 

That would fit with use c) and still have a weaker :( above. ;)

 

The problem with B) is that if you get shot up on the way in, there's a good chance you don't have your PF (the majority of your anti-tank) left. See my sig for the article on Risk.

[kaiserstole20]

I know conventional wisdom is against small squads, but I have used a 5 man squad w/PF effectively, sometimes with a Chaplain. I advance these behind my main line and just 'pile on' wherever CC is taking place. I use them to support dreadnoughts on my flank or advancing terminators in the middle. They certainly can't carry combat by themselves but do increase the CC potential of a dreadnought and provide a sweeping advance to the terminators.

 

Their ability to deliver a power fist anywhere on my line is great and often all that's needed to swing a battle in my favor. Against weak units, transports, and some tanks I can take them on just with the 5 assault marines.

 

That would fit with use c) above. :(

 

Indeed!

[Lord Sinaris]

I was planning to use 10 assault-marines + Shrike in a game tomorrow against combined Marines+Guard (going with Warp Angels point e), idea being that I can possibly get a first-turn charge on something vital to my enemy.

 

With a powerfist and two flamers, there shouldn't be much on the table that I can't really harm (dreads being the exception I suppose) - hopefully. And with the speed and some good positioning, I can hopefully avoid anything dangerous enough to put too much hurt on me. I was wondering wether I should add a chaplain to that, or wether this will be threatening enough on his own?

[Koremu]

I'm not entirely sure that you can still Infiltrate with a Chaplain.

[Brother Decian]

They work great in the "refused flank" move. Sounds tricky but it isn't. One part of your force heads towards one side of your enemy's army. This is made of a few, fast units. The rest of your army launches a massed assault on the other side. The smaller force disrupts the enemy's defense, making your assault more effective. Assault marines work great in the smaller force, just make sure to send them in with some support, or else they'll die easy.

[travh20]

I too have to say that I never leave home without my 10 man assault squad, 2 flamers, a power fist and a jump chaplain. This unit ALWAYS does good, and most games is the one unit that does the most damage to the enemy.

[Joshta]

Assault squads (even with a chaplain) aren't ever going to be awesome killer units against most troop choices. They lack power weapons/high strength weapons to do a whole lot.

 

1) You need a numeric advantage for assault Marines to take on MEQs successfully without becoming tarpitted.

2) You have no business taking on enemy assault troops, who are usually BETTER than or equal to your assault Marines. This includes virtually every variety of Chaos Space Marines. Unless you have overwhelming numbers.

 

Key points!