SoB VS. Dark Eldar?

[SJumppanen]

I haven't ever fought against them exept once in Apoc match, so any suggestions for a 2K fight?

[Empty Bolter Clip]

Alot is going to depend on the DE's army composition so without any real info on the opponent's list I can only generalize my advice....

 

The typical DE list will probably be a machanized one, featuring lots of raiders. Raiders can pack a punch with their lances, but are generally like open-topped rhinos.... only much much faster! Also, they are Eldar, meaning decent shooting, fast but light. While they do have some CC units that can be nasty (incubi, wyches) they are still eldar and can't take a hit. If it were me playing my DE list, I would have an "raider ambush" style list, utilizing a warp gate to bring my raiders into play from whatever desired point. Long story short, expect them to surround you, and expect them to do it fast!

 

Suggestions on the Sister's side. I would definitly take take a mechanized list as well... they will be faster, but it should give atleast some ability to move. I'd definitly take exorcists and would target their non-transport, weapon-platform Raiders as this will probably be where most of their AT stuff will come from. With those out the way, you can start knocking their transports out of the sky! They key would be to get them grounded and footslogging as soon as you can. You should easily be able to kill them in droves via a turn of drive-up rapidfire. And don't be afraid to charge their regular warriors if need be, as you should easily win with or without faith points... getting into combat with their CC units WILL require the careful use of faith points to make it out of that one. Squad load out wise, just the typical Flamer/HFlamer would suffice but other weapons could be swapped depending on your tastes.

 

Again, that is just generalizing... mechanized list, Standard Sister loadout, exorcists, and a CC ready canoness and you should be good to go! Just expect a little bit of a chess match in the movement phase as both you and DE will be vying for the best spots to hop out and shoot/charge.

 

Hope that helps, Good Luck!

 

Empty Bolter Clip

[SJumppanen]

Do you think that 60 Zealots in 2k list would have their place in this fight?

[Doomaflatchi]

I have a brother who plays Dark Eldar, and as such I'm decently familiar with their army. Bolter Clip is right - expect them to surround and kite you with Raiders. I would recommend against taking a lot of heavy armor, as the Dark Lances will eat through those points devastatingly quickly (they treat Armor above 12 as 12). If you want to go mechanized, focus on the light stuff that gives you the added speed and range. Also, don't let yourself get overextended trying to chase them down - they'll probably try to lure some of your forces out, then hit them hard with ambush troops. If you stay together, you can help discourage that, as they don't have a ton of template weapons.

 

Make sure you take something anti-armor with a range of 36" or greater, like Lascannons - the Dark Lances on the Raiders have a 36" range, and if you can't beat that then they'll kite you all over the board. Have some weapons that can reach outside that range and touch them, and try to bring those Raiders down. If they have infantry squads toting Dark Lances (which are Heavy weapons), don't give them the time to stop and set up to fire them; the shooters are the weak point of that army. If they rush you with Incubi or Wyches, fall back and engage at range! Also, expect them to have one Raider loaded with Grotesques - their special version of Feel No Pain is MUCH stronger than the standard one, and heavily shields them against range fire. This means that almost none of them will die even if their Raider crashes, so don't expect that to take them down. Don't waste ranged fire on them if you have better targets, as they'll just soak it up and keep on coming.

 

Above all, be flexible! Their special rules will screw with you, so just adapt to however they mess you up. Expect a large chunk of their force to come out 2nd or 3rd turn, possibly through a webway-portal or out of hiding. Remember, they're weak to shooting but fire powerful shots, so if you get in a ranged battle with them, know when to cut your losses and charge into melee.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck to you!

[Empty Bolter Clip]

Do you think that 60 Zealots in 2k list would have their place in this fight?

 

What do you mean by "zealots"? Sister Repentia?

 

And yes, Doomaflatchi brings up a good point about the dark lances in regards to the exorcist. They WILL chew through your armor, so any "shooting platform" tanks like your exorcists will require a lot of care in regards to LOS and terrain.... often only getting 1 chance (i.e. a d6 with exorcists) to bring a target before getting shot at in return. Armor should be used at your own risk...

[Toogeloo]

I play a Dark Eldar player fairly regularly and I should offer some quick advice to you.

 

 

-Mechanized is very important. Use the 6" move and shoot out top hatch to your advantage. Make him destroy your Rhinos to get you out. Dark Eldar for the most part have really bad armor saves, so your Heavy Flamers will tear them apart. Their vehicles are all open topped with 10's and 11's in the armor department. Any Melta and Exorcist Pens will be +2 on the damage chart.

 

-Be wary of Night Shields, you will probably find them on all of your opponent's vehicles. What does this mean? Don't bother taking Inferno Pistols... at all. Night Shields reduce shooting range by 6" making Inferno Pistols completely useless except for use on Infantry models which already have pretty abysmal armor saves. Take Hand Flamer Seraphim and Brazier and Blessed Weapon Canoness (or Bolt Pistol and Eviscerator). Meltaguns will only have a range of 6" as will double tapping Bolters (if you are getting desparate, but avoid this as if he has troops inside, they will likely assault next phase and they have nasty flamers too).

 

-He will likely use an Archon as his HQ. The best counter to the Archon is two full squads of Sisters unloading into him. Imagine facing your Canoness with her 2++ save, he has one as well... but the nice thing is, once he fails one save he no longer gets the 2++. So unload as many Bolter Shots as possible into him and force him to make those saves, he will roll 1's eventually.

 

-Do not get out of your vehicles unless you know you are safe from his HS Ravagers. They have 3 Plasma Cannons essentially mounted on them. Hopping out of a vehicle and having your unit targeted by 3 Plasma Cannon shots will almost assuredly wipe out the squad of Sisters. Realisticly, you should not be getting out of your vehicles at all until mid game when facing Dark Eldar. Leave the first two or three turns to your Exorcists (take 3!), Immolator's (if you have them as Troop Transports), and Jump Units with easy to use Invul Saves. Homoculus and Plasma Cannon kills are easy wipe outs for your squads if you give them to your opponent.

 

-The really nice thing about playing against Eldar is that his saves are abysmal. You should be easily killing something or wrecking a vehicle every turn (remember +2 on the Pen chart against all his vehicles). Your opponent knows this as well and will likely have to play very aggressive in order to not fall behind by mid-game. Expect him to rush and try and flank. Keep your Exorcists in cover since his transports will only get the Lance shot off in the first turn, and maybe Blaster Shots as well on the second and third turns.

[SJumppanen]

Do you think that 60 Zealots in 2k list would have their place in this fight?

 

What do you mean by "zealots"? Sister Repentia?

 

Zealots are a special unit featured in WD-304 (UK). They are basicaly common civilians with minimal training and equipment. They are dirt cheap too (or used to be, now you get IG at the same point cost). What is so special about them, is that they get guys with evicerators in these mobs and all modifiers to morale checks are positive.

 

Edit: Just thinking: If it is recomended that i stay inside my vehicles for the whole game, then should i leave Seraphim home? Maybe take Celestians to do close combat? Also, how about taking few PEs? I would keep them in reserve and hug the back line with rest of my forces. so when they arrive, my forces and hopefully my enemies would be close.

[Grey Mage]

Does your opponent know your taking them>?

[Toogeloo]

Do you think that 60 Zealots in 2k list would have their place in this fight?

 

What do you mean by "zealots"? Sister Repentia?

 

Zealots are a special unit featured in WD-304 (UK). They are basicaly common civilians with minimal training and equipment. They are dirt cheap too (or used to be, now you get IG at the same point cost). What is so special about them, is that they get guys with evicerators in these mobs and all modifiers to morale checks are positive.

 

Edit: Just thinking: If it is recomended that i stay inside my vehicles for the whole game, then should i leave Seraphim home? Maybe take Celestians to do close combat? Also, how about taking few PEs? I would keep them in reserve and hug the back line with rest of my forces. so when they arrive, my forces and hopefully my enemies would be close.

No, Double Tapping Sisters are still quite deadly, you just need to be wary of Ravagers and being assaulted since all Dark Eldar vehicles are assault vehicles. Seraphim are good because it's is generally pretty easy to make them invulnerable, but if you hop out of a Rhino with 10 Battle Sisters your chance of SotM is slim. Then if he lays 3 small Blast Markers on you that are S7 AP2, and scores enough hits, you will lose the entire squad. Dark Eldar also have a small Blast Template attack that causes Pinning with a negative modifier for each model past the first hit, so Books are good to take for the squads in the even you do happen to be out of the vehicle and hit with it. The flamers they fire have random AP values, so if he 6 girls with it and he rolls 6 dice and the value shown on each dice is the AP value of each hit (so you can expect to lose half the girls to no armor save on each hit with this flamer). This is why you stay in your vehicles as long as possible and make him get you out, or get out when you are clinching victory.

 

Essentially your tactics for Turn 1 will be to use your 3 Exorcists to try and wreck as many vehicles as you can, specifically transports if possible and Ravagers, and whichever are the most threatening or easiest to kill at the time. Your opponent will be targeting your Exorcists first as well as they are the biggest bane to his army. You should be getting explosions on at least half the vehicles you penetrate so your opponent will probably lose 2 or 3 Wytches or whatever he is carrying per explosion and in some cases fail his pinning checks.

 

 

Dark Eldar sadly need an update more than Witch Hunters do as their army is relatively weaker in 5th edition, and you should have little trouble beating him if you play smart. Your Exorcists are your biggest advantage as are your SotM saves for your Seraphim. You could really hurt him with a Callidus assassin too if you use it correctly.

[SJumppanen]

Does your opponent know your taking them>?

 

We are taking about zealots, right? Yesterday he saw me playing with them and he also met them in that Apoc. fight i mentioned in first message. Should be enough warning to him.

 

 

Togeloo: How about Retributors? Surround them with other units and place them into cover spaced widely, would that work?

[SJumppanen]

You could really hurt him with a Callidus assassin too if you use it correctly.

 

I can arrange that. What kind of =I= retinue would be the best? HB Dakka retinue or Rhino plasma group?

 

Edit: How about stuff like Orbital strike or immolator (maybe with HB and blessed ammo)?

[Toogeloo]

An Immo with a Heavy Bolter could do some damage for addtional punch to his vehicles. AV 10 and 11 is very vulnerable to twin-linked Heavy Bolter shots. You should get a 1 Glance or Pen on average (but he will likely be getting a cover save so 50/50). I would sooner load up your list on 3 Exorcists and ~5 Squads of Battle Sisters (Combi-Flamer/Melta/Brazier, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer) in Rhino, or 4 in Rhinos and 1 large (14-20 girl) squad of Sisters on foot with 2 Meltguns (spread out) that covers your deployment zone in case of objective play. Take maybe one squad of 7 Seraphim Sisters with a Saint, or 8 Seraphim with a quickly branching off Canoness. If you do take the Callidus, move a Ravager or his HQ transport into an open firing lane to take it down with exorcists first turn (if you go first) or move a squad out of transport with good coverage out into the open or well behind cover to make him re-move the unit (if you go second). For the Inquisitor... just a simple basic Inquisitor with a Storm Bolter or regular Bolter will do. You can add Gun Servitors with a Plasma Cannon and/or Heavy Botlers and that will be a pretty good annoyance for his vehicles as well. After all that, then add an HB/HF Immo with some Dominion or something. I would not bother with an Orbital Strike, there is only a small chance he may hole up on some terrain and do warp entry, more than likely he will do fully mechanized for mobility. If you do do it, a Simple Lance Strike is more than enough.

 

 

Once his vehicles are gone, sisters do what sisters do best as his models melt to the ground. His 4+ pr 5+ armor saves on his models will fall before Flamers and Bolters alike. Depending on his army make up, more than likely several of his units are going to be just as good at assault as our Sisters are, meaning your Seraphim and Saint/Canoness will have no trouble moving through them. Many Dark Eldar models are similar to Imperial Guard... Strength 3, Toughness 3, Initiative 3, 1 Wound, 1 Attack, flak or carapace savish armor. There are a few units that are very dedicated to close combat, but they fall to Bolter Clad Battle Sisters with a Heavy Flamer easily enough. His Vehicles are the biggest threat to you, as are yours to him. Whoever cripples the other's transports and Heavy Support first while maintaining most of their own will likely win. Don't let his Archon charge you, try to spray him with a ton of Bolters (whether he is squaded or on a bike, just be relentless on making him make saves to get rid of that 2+ Invul save), and don't charge him with the Callidus... she won't survive his intial salvo of hits more than likely. Callidus will do better against Regular troops or Wyches.

 

That's pretty much all the advice you can really get against your opponent. He has the ability to make several different themed armies where as we only have one theme for the most part. Just stick with our best builds and focus on destroying his vehicles as early as possible. Once he is on foot he is more managable for Battle Sister Squads.

[SJumppanen]

I know that my opponent has some Grotesques and is likely to use them. How should i deal with them? I was planing to get Canoness with Celestians retinue and get least pair of Evicerators. He also used before some other unit that affects WS. Combination is kind of anoying.

 

BTW. How DE are in power weapons? Do they have much? Or Frag grenades?

 

So anyway, what is your take on Zealots? Would they be worth taking? Maybe as a screen to intercept assaults and to draw enemy fire?

[Toogeloo]

Several Dark Eldar units, usually Wyches, can use Drugs, but they are random. They can up Weapon Skill though. The Archon can choose his drugs but risks taking wounds for doing so.

 

I don't think my Dark Eldar opponent has ever used Grotesques so I can't really comment on them, but try to consider there MEQ and how you would deal it with it that way. Generally speaking though, I can't forsee any reason why you would need to abandon focusing on vehicles right away.

 

I don't play with Zealots so I can't really comment, but I am not a fan of footsloggers, especially used as a screen. It just feels as though you are throwing points away asking for them to be mowed down, meanwhile your mechanized assault is slowed by the pace of the footsloggers. Foot sloggers also provide no real screen to a Mechanized army anyways since your opponent will still more than likely be able to see over 50% of your vehicles behind the infantry models. The only screen you might get is protection to other footsloggers or Seraphim, but Seraphim would only be slowed down. Maybe take Zealots if you induct Guards men so you get a screen in front of your Infantry Platoons. You can do the dirty tactic of keeping them in front of your Infantry during his turns, move during yours (out of the fire lane), shoot the Guardsmen Autocannons/Lascannons and then Run the Zealots back into screen position.

 

In fact, inducting Guard wouldn't be a bad idea at all. If you take a couple Infantry Platoons with Autocannons (PCS and 3 IS = 4 Autocannons ~200 points ea.) you can drop a couple Battle Sister Squads and increase your punch power at range. Autocannons have very good odds of punching Dark Eldar armor.

[Imperator Mos]

I would take HB Rets, maybe even a squad of PE's for Heavy slots. Seraphim w/hand flamers with jump cannoness/Celestine. Karamazov might even be a good unit for HQ. Inq with HB servitors or Celestians with SB/HB for Elites. Arco Flagellants wiould make a very good counter charge unit, because you know he'll come to you...

[SJumppanen]

Several Dark Eldar units, usually Wyches, can use Drugs, but they are random. They can up Weapon Skill though. The Archon can choose his drugs but risks taking wounds for doing so.

 

It may have been Wyches, but problem wasn't the drugs, but something that affected my WS skill.

 

I don't play with Zealots so I can't really comment, but I am not a fan of footsloggers, especially used as a screen. It just feels as though you are throwing points away asking for them to be mowed down, meanwhile your mechanized assault is slowed by the pace of the footsloggers. Foot sloggers also provide no real screen to a Mechanized army anyways since your opponent will still more than likely be able to see over 50% of your vehicles behind the infantry models. The only screen you might get is protection to other footsloggers or Seraphim, but Seraphim would only be slowed down. Maybe take Zealots if you induct Guards men so you get a screen in front of your Infantry Platoons. You can do the dirty tactic of keeping them in front of your Infantry during his turns, move during yours (out of the fire lane), shoot the Guardsmen Autocannons/Lascannons and then Run the Zealots back into screen position.

 

I use screen sometimes for the first turn when opponent gets the first go and in this fight in particular i thought that it would be a good idea to have something to put as a speed bump between opponent and me.

 

Anyway: I found out that this whole topic has become kind of pointless as this particular opponent plays with Eldar, not DE. My mistake. But thanks for all of you who contributed.