The Forgebreakers

[NemFX]

A new homegrown idea here, so that said, if you wanna use these guys, just show me what you end up making :)

The Forgebreakers are a little known chapter made in the early years of the 38th millennium.

Originally created in the aftermath of the First War for Armageddon the Forgebreakers chapter was the result of an experiment to essentially cross pollinate the geneseed of the Iron Hands with the Imperial Fists.

The chapter was given a strike cruiser and sent on it's way. It was originally presumed to have been lost in the warp shortly thereafter, and it was officially classed as 'lost'.

As the middle of the 38th millennium approached, Angron and fifty thousand World Eaters slaughtered their way through Imperial space for over two centuries. This time period was called the Dominion of Fire, and was when the Forgebreakers reemerged.

Far from lost, the Forgebreakers strike cruiser found a mineral rich world with large veins of adamantine and other strong metals. The chapter landed the strike cruiser on the world, and systematically disassembled the ship and turned it into a large refinery. After a century, the marines that made up the chapter had swelled their ranks dramatically with the indigenous peoples and had started work on the two largest projects the chapter had started since the assembly of the refinery.

Their first goal was to make a small fleet of ships; a rapid strike fleet of Firestorm frigates. The other, to build the pinnacle of Space Marine wargear: Terminator armour.

Indeed, when a fleet of 60 ships engaged the World Eaters from a sector of space deemed uninhabited, they were taken by surprise. Almost all land based combat was won by the Forgebreakers, who only deployed terminator squads.

Though they can produce other armours, it is rare for them to keep any of them; normally shipping them off-world in exchange for more parts to make terminator armour and weapons. Only the finest suits of power armour, the so-called artificier suits are kept, as works of art. These are normally gifted to other chapters or to the Adeptus Mechanicus whenever they are assisted.

The chapter itself might have the most fully functional terminator suits of any chapter of space marines, and they are proud to report that at least 37 of the suits contain the original fragments of the Emperor's armour. Another dozen or so are still awaiting the proper testing.

The chapter does not rely on one specific type of weapon in combat; using each of the available choices when necessary. The chapter tries to be pragmatic about it's beliefs and operations, using a fast but heavy strike in almost all cases.

To this date, the chapter has never been recorded as fighting in anything short of terminator armour, which appears to be the closest thing they have to a weapon of choice.

The chapter symbol is a stylized yellow lightning bolt super imposed over a light gray anvil, on a field of dark gray, with black trim on both pauldrons.

The armour colour is dark gray with black kneepads, and black markings.

[sal of manders]

This REALLY should be on the Liber Astartes board. In the mean time, a few things I'd point out after a cursery glance.

 

1. Multiple geneseed is only really plausible if it's the 21st found (at least with most people).

2. FIFTY THOUSAND WORLD EATERS sounds just a little over the top to me. Keep in mind, the original legions were only ten thousand strong.

3. Admittedly we are talking about an Iron Hands' succesor, but I really doubt even they would have the knowledge and ability to construct forge facilities. I could be wrong.

4. The whole terminator armour part feels Mary Sue-ish at best.

5. As to your chapter symbol, I'd suggest making the "dark" grey darker, it's really more of a middle grey as is, but that's just me.

[NemFX]

This REALLY should be on the Liber Astartes board. In the mean time, a few things I'd point out after a cursery glance.

 

1. Multiple geneseed is only really plausible if it's the 21st found (at least with most people).

2. FIFTY THOUSAND WORLD EATERS sounds just a little over the top to me. Keep in mind, the original legions were only ten thousand strong.

3. Admittedly we are talking about an Iron Hands' succesor, but I really doubt even they would have the knowledge and ability to construct forge facilities. I could be wrong.

4. The whole terminator armour part feels Mary Sue-ish at best.

5. As to your chapter symbol, I'd suggest making the "dark" grey darker, it's really more of a middle grey as is, but that's just me.

 

 

1. Fair enough, I was just trying to make them have a combination you don't see often. I was trying to aim for stubborn and technological, without chopping limbs off of themselves or shocking themselves :)

 

2. This is from GW fluff. It's an obscure reference in Angron's info ;)

 

3. Aurora chapter did it! :P

 

4. Funny.. Normally I never use it. I just figured it'd be something different :)

 

5. I used ms paint's standard dark and light gray :P

 

 

Thanks for the review though :)

[Blckbuster]

is there some heavy gravity world squat action coming too?

[NemFX]

is there some heavy gravity world squat action coming too?

 

Nope, the idea was just to have a world, with people slightly similar to Vulkan, in the sense that they like to do mining and all that. I was trying to keep the homeworld vague, as sometimes people get too wrapped up in the background.

[Apothete]

I'm going to second that this belongs on the Liber Astartes board, but I'm sure one of our friendly moderators will send it on its way. Also, you might want to read the Guide to DIYing.

 

In the meantime, some criticism...

 

The Forgebreakers are a little known chapter made in the early years of the 38th millennium.

 

They would have to be a part of the twenty-eighth Founding, which would place them as the very first year of that millenium. The last founding before that was almost two thousand years before, and the next one wouldn't be for another one and a half thousand.

 

Originally created in the aftermath of the First War for Armageddon the Forgebreakers chapter was the result of an experiment to essentially cross pollinate the geneseed of the Iron Hands with the Imperial Fists.

 

The First War for Armageddon begins in 891.M41, but your Chapter is supposedly founded practically four thousand years earlier. It's also generally considered heresy to attempt to mingle gene-seed, especially given the instabilities present in some of the genelines that have merely been left to their own devices. It's an overused and generally weak plot device to invoke that concept as a differentiating factor.

 

The chapter was given a strike cruiser and sent on it's way. It was originally presumed to have been lost in the warp shortly thereafter, and it was officially classed as 'lost'.

 

Generally speaking, a Strike Cruiser will be roughly large enough to carry a single Company. If you were to have only a training cadre and the beginnings of a foundation of the new Marines traveling to their assigned homeworld, that might be possible. If you're looking at fitting a whole Chapter onboard that one ship, they're going to be stacked like firewood and probably pretty grumpy by the end of the trip.

 

Also, the "lost in the warp" angle is already overdone. It looks even worse beside the mixed geneseed element.

 

As the middle of the 38th millennium approached, Angron and fifty thousand World Eaters slaughtered their way through Imperial space for over two centuries. This time period was called the Dominion of Fire, and was when the Forgebreakers reemerged.

 

That's roughly equal to half of all loyalist Astartes in the entire galaxy, just so you know.

 

Far from lost, the Forgebreakers strike cruiser found a mineral rich world with large veins of adamantine and other strong metals. The chapter landed the strike cruiser on the world, and systematically disassembled the ship and turned it into a large refinery. After a century, the marines that made up the chapter had swelled their ranks dramatically with the indigenous peoples and had started work on the two largest projects the chapter had started since the assembly of the refinery.

 

They landed an orbital ship safely enough to make something useful from it aftewards?

 

Their first goal was to make a small fleet of ships; a rapid strike fleet of Firestorm frigates. The other, to build the pinnacle of Space Marine wargear: Terminator armour.

 

It takes decades, if not centuries, to lay down the keels and structure of an Imperial vessel, to say nothing of the advanced engineering, manufacturing, and assembly techniques that require the cooperation of the Adeptus Mechanicus. On top of that, an Astartes Chapter that was caught manufacturing warships that were not purely for ground-pounding would find themselves on the wrong side of the Ecclesiarchy, Imperial Navy, Inquisition, and practically everyone else. There's a separation of power for a reason.

 

The implausibility goes for their Terminator armor as well, since there are Chapters which are vastly older than yours which don't have that many suits and which can't manufacture them for themselves. Certain things like ships, Land Raiders, Tactical Dreadnought Armor, Dreadnought hulls, and other highly complicated or forgotten technology generally don't come from within a Chapter itself.

 

Indeed, when a fleet of 60 ships engaged the World Eaters from a sector of space deemed uninhabited, they were taken by surprise. Almost all land based combat was won by the Forgebreakers, who only deployed terminator squads.

 

This is so Mary Sue that it hurts.

 

Sixty frigates aren't going to do much of anything to the fleet that it would take to move that many of the Traitor Legions' troops, to say nothing of how badly most forces would be butchered on the ground by screaming hordes of Khorne worshippers. Terminator armor or not, you're talking about a Legion that was already legendary in close combat and which has been strengthened by unholy rites and deamonic gifts from their bloody master.

 

Though they can produce other armours, it is rare for them to keep any of them; normally shipping them off-world in exchange for more parts to make terminator armour and weapons. Only the finest suits of power armour, the so-called artificier suits are kept, as works of art. These are normally gifted to other chapters or to the Adeptus Mechanicus whenever they are assisted.

 

Terminator Armor takes a long, long time to assemble, it's finicky to maintain, and the knowledge to assemble it is extremely rare. The odds that any Chapter would trade away their extremely holy relics in exchange for comparatively prosaic power armor is just about negligable.

 

Think of it like this... Say that you had a signed Babe Ruth baseball card, one of the few ones left in existence. Some kid comes up to you and offers to trade Nolan Ryan's rookie card for it. While the second card is valuable and should be properly taken care of, it's comparatively worthless junk.

 

The chapter itself might have the most fully functional terminator suits of any chapter of space marines, and they are proud to report that at least 37 of the suits contain the original fragments of the Emperor's armour. Another dozen or so are still awaiting the proper testing.

 

If they possessed the most Terminator armor, then why are they not mentioned in the existing fluff as being so blessed?

 

It's generally a bad idea to set your Chapter up as being clearly better than anyone, especially when there are examples like the Deathwing in the Dark Angels to show how old a Terminator-heavy force is likely to be.

 

The chapter does not rely on one specific type of weapon in combat; using each of the available choices when necessary. The chapter tries to be pragmatic about it's beliefs and operations, using a fast but heavy strike in almost all cases.

 

This is true of all Codex-adherent Chapters. What's the point in mentioning it?

 

An Index article is meant to show how your Chapter is different, not how it's the same.

 

To this date, the chapter has never been recorded as fighting in anything short of terminator armour, which appears to be the closest thing they have to a weapon of choice.

 

Unlikely, but do it if it makes you happy.

 

The armour colour is dark gray with black kneepads, and black markings.

 

Why not use the painter utility to represent their colors?

[NemFX]

Valid points, so here we go:

 

The First War for Armageddon begins in 891.M41

I was using the timeline in Angron's lexicanum article. I used the most reliable resources, I didn't say they actually were reliable :)

 

Generally speaking, a Strike Cruiser will be roughly large enough to carry a single Company.

I left the founding number vague, because too few and you wonder if it can be done, too many, and it just feels silly.

 

Also, the "lost in the warp" angle is already overdone. It looks even worse beside the mixed geneseed element.

Sure does, that's why I didn't make a big deal of it. "Oh, great, another one. Go get me a black candle.."

 

That's roughly equal to half of all loyalist Astartes in the entire galaxy, just so you know.

Yep. Lexicanum again. I tried to fit it into canon, without making it something obvious.

 

They landed an orbital ship safely enough to make something useful from it aftewards?

A giant spaceship into a refinery the size of a 3 story factory? If they couldn't, they'd be pretty pathetic.

 

It takes decades, if not centuries, to lay down the keels and structure of an Imperial vessel.

From landing to takeoff was a minimum of 500 years. I chose the smallest ones the Imperium makes. If there was a smaller one, I'd have picked that instead. I figured that space marines don't have to sleep, so it'd take less time, especially given the lack of AdMech interference.

 

On top of that, an Astartes Chapter that was caught manufacturing warships that were not purely for ground-pounding would find themselves on the wrong side of the Ecclesiarchy, Imperial Navy, Inquisition, and practically everyone else.

Good thing everyone thought they were dead, huh? I should add in some fluff explanation for how they reconciled that. I imagine most people won't be too mad at how you saved them after the fact.

 

The implausibility goes for their Terminator armor as well, since there are Chapters which are vastly older than yours which don't have that many suits and which can't manufacture them for themselves.

Fair enough, but those ones were normally attacked and had significant damage dealt to their manufacturing stuff. This would be a case like the Aurora chapter, where they were generally left alone for a significant period to do their own thing.

 

This is so Mary Sue that it hurts.

Nah, just bad writing on my part. I meant for it to sound like they practiced skirmishing tactics in space, before doing a different tactic on land. If you have your 3rd edition codex still, basically what the White Panthers did, except with terminator squads.

 

Terminator Armor takes a long, long time to assemble, it's finicky to maintain, and the knowledge to assemble it is extremely rare. The odds that any Chapter would trade away their extremely holy relics in exchange for comparatively prosaic power armor is just about negligable.

I think you read it wrong. But I'll go point by point. Terminator armour's lower half is just upgraded power armour legs. The arms are also upgraded power armour. The main body and head are the only parts of terminator armour that are actually different from standard. The chapter trades whole power armour suits for parts of terminator armour. That can mean anything from servos, to cabling, to lenses. The idea was that they'd barter, and whoever was dealing with them would be receptive since they are getting a fully working unit for a couple of 'spare' parts. Trading a new car for some old junk parts. I like to rely on the 'human' factor for this one.

 

If they possessed the most Terminator armor, then why are they not mentioned in the existing fluff as being so blessed?

Cause I only made them today. But seriously, I am well aware of the Deathwing thing. To say they had one of the best collections of terminator armour doesn't mean much. Deathwing has at least 100. Ultramarines before the Battle of Macragge had around the same ammount. Generally most chapters have somewhere between 40-100 suits. They just have a high number of suits in active service.

 

This is true of all Codex-adherent Chapters. What's the point in mentioning it?

Space Wolves: Swords.

Dark Angels: Plasma.

World Eaters: Axes.

Raven Guard: Jump packs.

Salamanders: Flamers and meltas.

 

To this date, the chapter has never been recorded as fighting in anything short of terminator armour - Unlikely.

Why? Surgical strikes in heavy armour works. Look at Space Hulk.

 

I should rewrite and add a bit. I should really convey one thing; this article came off sounding like the whole chapter wears terminator armour. They don't. Only the ones fighting do. If you were to split up 60 marines into 5 man squads, each with a teleport homer and heavy weapon, they'd be very flexible while being hard as nails. Anyway, I'll take a second crack at this tomorrow. The idea was to hammer out a viable chapter while leaving parts of it vague if anyone wanted to take up the mantle of making them in model form.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

On top of that, an Astartes Chapter that was caught manufacturing warships that were not purely for ground-pounding would find themselves on the wrong side of the Ecclesiarchy, Imperial Navy, Inquisition, and practically everyone else. There's a separation of power for a reason.

 

Rapid Strike Vessels escape the specialisation for orbital support requirement because they are so small. They are allowed to be pure gunboats. That said, building lots of them is still going to start alarm bells ringing.

 

That's roughly equal to half of all loyalist Astartes in the entire galaxy, just so you know.

Yep. Lexicanum again. I tried to fit it into canon, without making it something obvious.

 

It's the 4th ed. Chaos Codex that Lexicanum cites for this. Link.

 

From landing to takeoff was a minimum of 500 years. I chose the smallest ones the Imperium makes. If there was a smaller one, I'd have picked that instead. I figured that space marines don't have to sleep, so it'd take less time, especially given the lack of AdMech interference.

 

These smaller ships contain some of the most advanced systems known to the Imperium. Being small doesn't mean they're quick to assemble. Plus, you've not got AdMech help. That leaves you with about 20 Techmarines, and about 100 Servitors to make this ship. I doubt they could get one done in 500 years.

 

Even more, the Chapter has been sitting idle for 500 years. That's dereliction of duty - why hasn't someone picked up on this? Even if they are unknown to the Imperium, how do the Marines feel about sitting around doing nothing?

[Apothete]

I was using the timeline in Angron's lexicanum article. I used the most reliable resources, I didn't say they actually were reliable

 

We have some pretty insane and dedicated fluff nuts right here on the Bolter, some of whom have been nice enough to compile their research for the rest of us to take advantage of. According to the timeline that's been endorsed by the forum in general, the original version that you wrote is going to be contradictory.

 

I left the founding number vague, because too few and you wonder if it can be done, too many, and it just feels silly.

 

Why, though?

 

A full strength Chapter is generally going to be around a thousand Marines if they're not currently depleted from combat operations. Deviation from that point is something that sets yours apart and should be explained in more detail, since the goal of one of these articles is to show how the Forgebreakers stand apart from the others.

 

Sure does, that's why I didn't make a big deal of it. "Oh, great, another one. Go get me a black candle.."

 

It doesn't really add anything to them, aside from giving an excuse for a dissappearing act that will have to be explained later.

 

To expand on what Tyrak said after I posted last night, the problem that I see with taking this approach to their history is that they're bound to raise some eyebrows when they show back up in Imperial space after being gone. Instead of having the single ship that they were sent out with, they're apparently going to have sixty ships and enough men (Astartes or not) to crew them all, along with a boatload of Terminator armor that they didn't start with. The Adeptus Mechanicus is going to want to know how and why this happened, so will the Inquisition, the Departmento Munitiorum, and possibly even other Astartes.

 

Generally speaking, spacecraft come from the other branches of the Imperium that specialize in making them, as do most of the more complicated wargear that a Chapter uses. Division of labor and purpose is one way that they guard against a second Heresy.

 

Yep. Lexicanum again. I tried to fit it into canon, without making it something obvious.

 

Got a citation so I could see it for myself?

 

I read Lexicanum pretty regularly but I don't remember seeing an article that pegged the World Eaters as having that many bodies to go around. A quick read of both the World Eaters and First Battle for Armageddon writeups don't seem to mention a head count, either.

 

A giant spaceship into a refinery the size of a 3 story factory? If they couldn't, they'd be pretty pathetic.

 

Not really pathetic, no.

 

It's more a problem with the way that ships are constructed. While they're awesome testaments to the power of the Imperium, the warships are built in orbital facilities and not intended to land on the surface of planets. That's why you have Thunderhawks, Drop Pods, and Aquila Landers to get the troops and vehicles down to the surface. The propulsion and manuevering systems of a cruiser are meant to allow it to shift position and vector in space, but I seriously doubt that they'd be able to do anything meaningful in safely bringing the ship down. Now, if you're talking about a powered crash where they keep the main engines running and force it into some kind of forward arc, I could see that happenening... It's just not too likely that what's left at the end would be useful for construction.

 

From landing to takeoff was a minimum of 500 years. I chose the smallest ones the Imperium makes. If there was a smaller one, I'd have picked that instead. I figured that space marines don't have to sleep, so it'd take less time, especially given the lack of AdMech interference.

 

There's several problems with that explanation.

 

First, if you keep to having them as a response to Armageddon, then you don't have five hundred years in which to be constructing anything. There's barely a hundred. On top of that, the Imperial Navy typically frowns upon the Astartes stealing their ship designs, which is why the Marines typicall don't operate much in the way of escorts and the ones they have are either older designs or somewhat undergunned. Showing up in Imperial space with a cloud of those things is a sure attention getter.

 

Also, interference? It's basically imperative that you have the Mechanicus on your side if you want anything more complicated than basic power armor and bolters. Where do you think that your Techmarines learned how to do their jobs? Who do you think runs the forgeworlds that churn out wargear and ammunition?

 

Good thing everyone thought they were dead, huh? I should add in some fluff explanation for how they reconciled that. I imagine most people won't be too mad at how you saved them after the fact.

 

That'd probably be a good idea.

 

Fair enough, but those ones were normally attacked and had significant damage dealt to their manufacturing stuff. This would be a case like the Aurora chapter, where they were generally left alone for a significant period to do their own thing.

 

I'm with Tyrak on this point.

 

If the Forgebreakers went missing for long enough to build as much as you've set them up to, they would likely be investigated for dereliction of duty by the Imperium on their return. Regardless of what a particular world might think of them, the Astartes exist to wage war on the enemies of man, not to sit tight and build their own fleet.

 

Nah, just bad writing on my part. I meant for it to sound like they practiced skirmishing tactics in space, before doing a different tactic on land. If you have your 3rd edition codex still, basically what the White Panthers did, except with terminator squads.

 

That's the part I had the hardest time accepting in my own work.

 

Generally speaking, if there's a misunderstanding about something you've written into the article, it's going to be the job of the author to make it clearer. Each of us is trying to communicate our ideas to others when we do these writeups and we can't expect the audience to read our minds.

 

Terminator armour's lower half is just upgraded power armour legs. The arms are also upgraded power armour. The main body and head are the only parts of terminator armour that are actually different from standard. The chapter trades whole power armour suits for parts of terminator armour. That can mean anything from servos, to cabling, to lenses. The idea was that they'd barter, and whoever was dealing with them would be receptive since they are getting a fully working unit for a couple of 'spare' parts. Trading a new car for some old junk parts. I like to rely on the 'human' factor for this one.

 

I'm going to leave this to other people to field.

 

My impression has been that Terminator armor is more complicated than that, and that its manufacture is similarly arduous to a Land Raider because of the rituals, materials, and specialist knowledge necessary in making it.

 

Cause I only made them today. But seriously, I am well aware of the Deathwing thing. To say they had one of the best collections of terminator armour doesn't mean much. Deathwing has at least 100. Ultramarines before the Battle of Macragge had around the same ammount. Generally most chapters have somewhere between 40-100 suits. They just have a high number of suits in active service.

 

The two Chapters that you mention are both first founding, extremely ancient, and have good working relationships with the Mechanicus. I doubt that most Chapters possess anything close to a hundred suits, and forty is probably pushing it.

 

Why? Surgical strikes in heavy armour works. Look at Space Hulk.

 

Sure, but not many Chapters have the ability to replace the armor if it gets destroyed or too heavily damaged. Where are you getting the teleporter arrays from, the fragments of the Emperor's armor for the Crux, the actuators for the heavier plating?

 

I might be willing to concede that the arms and legs of the suit are modified versions of power armor, but even if that's true, that doesn't cover the scarcity of the other components or the reverence with which the suits as a whole is held. As I and others have argued at other times, the Imperium could likely have hundreds of Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, and other "advanced" weapons of war if they would production-line them instead of having them constructed one at a time by specialist priest-artisans who don't tend to share their secrets. They don't, though. The act of creating an item like that is as much a prayer as it is an assembly of a physical object, something which cannot be hurried or shortchanged. Even the maintenance of a currently existing suit is a ritualized affair which takes far longer than logically necessary, but that's a part of the whole culture of this universe.

 

That's a big part of my problem with how this has been presented so far.

 

I should rewrite and add a bit. I should really convey one thing; this article came off sounding like the whole chapter wears terminator armour. They don't. Only the ones fighting do. If you were to split up 60 marines into 5 man squads, each with a teleport homer and heavy weapon, they'd be very flexible while being hard as nails.

 

They're not really much of a Chapter if they only field a single company at a time. What are the rest of the Marines doing?

[Gree]

Given that GW has gone out and flat said that Termie armor is almost impossible to properly build I would say that your chapter will not have very much of them, especiialty if they where founded recently in the past fe millenia.

 

Plus the astartes fleet restricitons is one of the few things that the Imperium actually tries to enforce. The only chapter that can get around that is the Wolves.

[NemFX]

Okay, refined it a bit. I imagine most of you should be able to accept this one. Alot of you guys seem to have forgotten that a little suspension of disbelief goes a long way in a fun hobby :)

The Forgebreakers are a little known chapter made in the early years of the 38th millennium.

Originally created in the aftermath of the First War for Armageddon the Forgebreakers chapter was the result of an experiment to essentially cross pollinate the geneseed of the Iron Hands with the Imperial Fists. The result was a somewhat dour, but very serious chapter. Lacking the masochistic traits of the Imperial Fists, and the desire to replace perfectly functional limbs with bionic ones. The drive to create superior weapons of war, however, was very clearly entrenched within the new chapter.

The chapter was given a strike cruiser and sent on it's way. It was originally presumed to have been lost in the warp shortly thereafter, and it was officially classed as 'lost'. This however, was not so, the ship crashed after a turbulent warp storm threw them out of the warp and hurtling towards a planet. Unfortunately, even though they jettisoned the plasma reactor, the ship took heavy damage upon impact, and all long range communications gear was lost or too damaged to repair.

The surviving marines squared their shoulders and set about their arduous task of rebuilding, thanking the Emperor that their gene-bank had not been compromised in the crash.

As the middle of the 38th millennium approached, Angron and fifty thousand World Eaters slaughtered their way through Imperial space for over two centuries. This time period was called the Dominion of Fire, and was when the Forgebreakers reemerged.

Far from lost, the Forgebreakers strike cruiser found a mineral rich world with large veins of adamantine and other strong metals. The chapter had systematically disassembled what was left of the ship, and turned it into a large refinery. After a century, the marines that made up the chapter had swelled their ranks dramatically with the indigenous peoples and had started work on the two largest projects the chapter had started since the assembly of the refinery. This was to be their way of returning to the Imperium.

Their first goal was to make a small fleet of ships; a rapid strike fleet of Firestorm frigates. The other, to build the pinnacle of Space Marine wargear: Terminator armour. Many long decades passed as the chapter toiled, wanting to rejoin the Imperium, but knowing that they couldn't rush matters without risking tragedy.

As the techmarines and their support staff laboured the best they could, they recruited the majority of the chapter to assist. Once they finally managed to make a long range communications array from salvaged parts, they overheard a number of frantic transmissions. Their part of the galaxy was at war, and needed help. Angron's forces were quickly overrunning planets to the galactic southwest of their homeworld.

When the first few ships were finally completed, they were given all the weapons that could be safely attached to their hulls, before being sent to fight. When the tiny fleet engaged the World Eaters from a sector of space deemed uninhabited, they were taken by surprise. While the ships themselves were no huge risk, they deployed their torpedoes to great effect, before sending boarding parties. The terminator squads were ordered to infiltrate and disable the ships plasma reactors, and destroy the magnetic containment devices if possible. Either the enemy ships would be unable to fly, or they would explode trying; this would let the smaller craft evade their attacks while the marines went planetside. Once the majority of orbital support was disabled, the marines made landfall. Almost all land based operations were won by the Forgebreakers, who only deployed terminator squads, and used them with surgical precision.

After the majority of the fighting was concluded, the chapter then submitted the ships to the AdMech for dis assembly and reconsecration. This led them to develop stronger ties with them, but the manufacture of terminator armour stayed with the chapter, who did not want to give up their characteristic way of warfare.

The Forgebreaker chapter is unusual in it's lack of reverence for technology; their lack of ties to the AdMech for so long have caused them to adapt a more pragmatic view. While their techmarines still bless what they build, not being as skilled at the rites and procedures, it takes substantially less time to create their tools for war. The ships they received back from the AdMech functioned only slightly better than before; but the time they had to wait could have been better used to fight back against Angron's forces. This has left the chapter with an almost impatient attitude towards warfare; while other chapters will treat their wargear as great works of art, the Forgebreakers only see crude tools for war.

That alone might be seen as heresy by others, the Forgebreakers see as being efficient. While their methods of building equipment are faster than average, it is not without a drawback. Parts that would last millennia for other chapters tend to wear out faster and need replacing more often, which the AdMech claim is a curse upon the chapter for their actions during the Dominion of Fire. Given the chapter's tendency to wear their equipment down through frequent use, they don't seem to notice.

Though they can produce other armours, it is rare for them to keep any of them; normally shipping them off-world in exchange for more parts to make and repair terminator armour and weapons. Only the finest suits of power armour, the so-called artificer suits are kept, as works of art. These are normally gifted to other chapters or to the Adeptus Mechanicus whenever the chapter is assisted.

The chapter itself might have the most terminator suits in constant use of any chapter of space marines, and they are proud to report that at least 37 of the suits contain the original fragments of the Emperor's armour. Another dozen or so are still awaiting the proper testing. To the Forgebreakers, the armour is not the holy relic it is to other chapters; instead it is a means to an end. A way to deliver justice to the foes of the Emperor. As such, the terminator armour is rarely embellished. Indeed, apart from minimal painting, most of the suits have little to no variation between them aside from battle damage and identification numbers.

The chapter does not rely on one specific type of weapon in combat; using each of the available choices when necessary. The chapter tries to be pragmatic about it's beliefs and operations, even in warfare; using a fast but heavy strike in almost all cases.

To this date, the chapter has never been recorded as fighting in anything short of terminator armour, which appears to be the closest thing they have to a weapon of choice. The chapter itself though, has never been seen at full fighting strength. It is speculated that the majority of the chapter instead are building the tools of war, or parts for barter. This has led some to believe that the chapter is made up of three castes; warriors, merchants, and builders. How accurate that is has yet to be seen.

[gil galed]

1/ You should remove the crossed geneseed thing, it simply doesn't happen

 

2/ It took them a century to tell someone what happened to them? i'm pretty sure an entire chapter disappearing would be investigated, not just chalked as "another warp one"

 

3/ While you've tried to explain away them making terminator armour i think its just plain silly, if people could make terminator armour this fast it would be mars and all marines would be wearing it, there is simply no way your chapter is better or should be better, Similarly having them never wear anything but terminator armour and having the most suits of armour is insane. Space Marine chapters don't "Trade" their holy relics (i.e terminator armour).

 

 

Simply put if you want to play death wing them you should really play death wing, i really fail to see anything that is "original" in the idea of having an all terminator chapter. It lacks character at the moment and feel screams "plot hooks"

[NemFX]

 

1. I like the concept.

2. Given that Angron's forces started attacking the Imperium only a few centuries after their disappearance, I imagine that they'd have chalked it up to "Oh, I guess the World Eaters got them"

3. It's a concept chapter. Just enjoy it for what it is ;)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Alot of you guys seem to have forgotten that a little suspension of disbelief goes a long way in a fun hobby

 

Frankly what you seem to conveniently forget is that we are fighting FOR suspension of disbelief, the fact that you are creating this chapter with some serious flaws in it in relation to general fluff as accepted by the wider community as canon then that is destroying the suspension of disbelief for the reader entirely. As soon as we, when reading this think "and the... wait, what?" when reading an article pretty much destroys that little bubble of the 40k universe in our minds.

 

It's a concept chapter. Just enjoy it for what it is

 

So are almost all the topics started in Liber, the fact that it is a concept does not make it immune to change and critique, the entire point of posting a concept chapter in Liber is for others to view it as a concept and then give suggestions as to how to improve upon that original concept and point out where additional work is needed.

 

You seem to be saying that just because it's an idea you've come up with and posted, and haven't judged it worthy yourself of being anything else other than a basic concept that we should stop poking holes in it? Telling us to enjoy it for what it is, is backwards logic. Here on Liber we enjoy well written and constructed DIY articles, both the process of making one great and indeed also reading the finished product.

 

To be quite honest I resent the implication and condescending tone in some of your replies. It may sound like something thats not terribly diplomatic but the fact is you have posted in Liber, and Liber has responded. You however are responding with the assumption that we are not quite as free thinking as you or the implication that we should be. If I've judged you unfairly then so be it, but that is what comes across when I read what you have written.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Yep. Lexicanum again. I tried to fit it into canon, without making it something obvious.

Got a citation so I could see it for myself?

 

I posted a link in the post above yours. ;)

 

Plus the astartes fleet restricitons is one of the few things that the Imperium actually tries to enforce. The only chapter that can get around that is the Wolves.

 

Even the Wolves don't get around it some much as get there first. They were granted an Imperial Cruiser by the Emperor, so they still had it when the Codex restrictions on Astartes fleets were brought into force. Same goes for the Imperial Fists, with the Phalanx, and the Dark Angels, with the Rock.

 

1/ You should remove the crossed geneseed thing, it simply doesn't happen

 

I does happen, but only happened in the Cursed (21st) Founding. All the Chapters created then used mixed gene-seeds, with some advantages, and some dodgy side effects.

 

Alot of you guys seem to have forgotten that a little suspension of disbelief goes a long way in a fun hobby

Frankly what you seem to conveniently forget is that we are fighting FOR suspension of disbelief, the fact that you are creating this chapter with some serious flaws in it in relation to general fluff as accepted by the wider community as canon then that is destroying the suspension of disbelief for the reader entirely. As soon as we, when reading this think "and the... wait, what?" when reading an article pretty much destroys that little bubble of the 40k universe in our minds.

 

Seconded. This isn't a story based in an existing historical context, where the only suspension of disbelief is the story itself. This is a fantasy universe, which is built upon the suspension of disbelief. Your story shouldn't make up its own suspension of disbelief, but rather fit in with the existing suspension of disbelief.

 

3. It's a concept chapter. Just enjoy it for what it is :)

 

If you don't want C&C, why are you posting it in the Liber? We're not here to stroke egos.

 

When the first few ships were finally completed, they were given all the weapons that could be safely attached to their hulls, before being sent to fight.

 

The Imperial Navy? Stick to the restrictions, or else your erstwhile 'allies' might decide that you're too dangerous to exist on either side.

 

The Forgebreaker chapter is unusual in it's lack of reverence for technology; their lack of ties to the AdMech for so long have caused them to adapt a more pragmatic view. While their techmarines still bless what they build, not being as skilled at the rites and procedures, it takes substantially less time to create their tools for war.

 

You just broke Grimdark. One of the fundamental elements of Grimdark is that there is no technological enlightenment. You cannot suddenly decide that your Chapter will solve one of the great problems plaguing the Imperium.

 

As the techmarines and their support staff laboured the best they could, they recruited the majority of the chapter to assist.

 

Even though Space Marines have little technological knowledge of their own, which is the cause of the Techmarines standing apart from their brethren? Techmarines are viewed with a degree of awe and mystery in equal measure by their brethren.

[Aurelius Rex]

A few notes about the chapter so far:

 

The Forgebreakers are a little known chapter made in the early years of the 38th millennium.

 

Originally created in the aftermath of the First War for Armageddon the Forgebreakers chapter was the result of an experiment to essentially cross pollinate the geneseed of the Iron Hands with the Imperial Fists.

The first two points contradict one another. The first war for Armageddon was around 444.M41 rather than M38... If you are set upon making them post Armageddon 1 then they could concievably be 26th founding, but it was several hundred years later and leaves even less time for any massed manufacturing effort.

 

What were you wanting to do with the mixed gene-seed hook? Too often it is simply invoked for no good reason, and so rightly gets a lot of scrutiny when it appears in a DIY chapter. Unless you have a really original spin on it, you will be making a rod for your own back by including this aspect. If you have a real unwavering need to mix geneseed then you would be best off making them cursed founding (21st) but remember that they are called cursed for a reason. Don't just make their curse that they are the awesomest. ;)

 

To this date, the chapter has never been recorded as fighting in anything short of terminator armour, which appears to be the closest thing they have to a weapon of choice. The chapter itself though, has never been seen at full fighting strength. It is speculated that the majority of the chapter instead are building the tools of war, or parts for barter. This has led some to believe that the chapter is made up of three castes; warriors, merchants, and builders. How accurate that is has yet to be seen.

Would I be correct in thinking that they have less than 100 battle brothers who actually fight? It seems a criminal waste of the other 900 astartes to be 'merchants' or builders... Techmarines in other chapters still play a valuable part on the battlefield. Without seeing combat, where do the other 9/10ths of the chapter gain experience to become veterans? This seems to leave you between a rock and a hard place, because either the chapter comes over as not fighting to its full potential, or you have to say they have much more than 100 terminators which opens you up to a whole new can of worms regarding believability. ;)

 

Alot of you guys seem to have forgotten that a little suspension of disbelief goes a long way in a fun hobby

The thing about suspension of disbelief is that it is has to be earned by being internally consistent within the context of prevailing 40K canon - and as a fair yardstick of the responses above it seems that the article as it stands has been unable to sustain belief.

 

The best way to take this is as an honest assessment of what needs more thought and work in your idea, and take it in the constructive form that I am sure it is intended. :)

[NemFX]

Originally created in the aftermath of the First War for Armageddon

This means after M41, but before, or just the beginning of M38.

 

What were you wanting to do with the mixed gene-seed hook?

Black + Yellow = Dark Gray. But more seriously, it was just something I hadn't seen ever done, and I figured that their two traits would make for an interesting mix. I mean, you have stubborn traits from both, but siege and heavy technological bias? How would their tactics and ideologies change? I think they'd go for heavy armour, on an individual level.

 

Would I be correct in thinking that they have less than 100 battle brothers who actually fight?

However many suits of terminator armour = however many marines they fight with at that time. It's less that the other marines are sitting around bored, but more that they are doing things to secure the parts for their own armour. The end result is that each marine can preform field repairs to their armour and each has a list of what they need. How they get the equipment is based on what they do; they could be making knives, or ammo, can openers or dog tags for the Imperial Guard, or any number of other things the Imperium at large needs. Basically, the marines are rewarded for helping the Imperium by getting to fight in terminator armour.

 

 

In addition, I removed the exact number of ships they have on hand, and the ammount of marines in the chapter is purposefully vague. The idea is that after 500ish years, the techmarines have managed to teach the marines enough about their gear, or at least given them a list of what they need to gather for the techmarines to assemble into terminator armour. Basically, they have enough competence to do field repairs on their own (most space marines end up with this, it's mentioned in the daily routine)

 

Each space marine chapter has imports and exports, which explains why my chapter produces various bits for the Imperial Guard. In one of the White Dwarfs (I have it, but I'd have to dig it out) it explains that, among a few censored things, the Crimson Fists import anti-static footwear and export electricity producing mammals. I imagine that given the mineral rich world they landed on, exporting some simple technologies to the guard wouldn't be too hard to justify.

[Aurelius Rex]

Originally created in the aftermath of the First War for Armageddon

This means after M41, but before, or just the beginning of M38.

Sorry? :D How can they be created after M41 and before M38?

 

What were you wanting to do with the mixed gene-seed hook?

Black + Yellow = Dark Gray. But more seriously, it was just something I hadn't seen ever done, and I figured that their two traits would make for an interesting mix. I mean, you have stubborn traits from both, but siege and heavy technological bias? How would their tactics and ideologies change? I think they'd go for heavy armour, on an individual level.

And the only way you can think to get those traits is to invoke mixed geneseed, with all the baggage that entails? That could be done in a more creative way and without hurting your suspension of disbelief by involving the character of the original parent chapter training cadre, their early history, battles, homeworld, any number of things. :)

 

Would I be correct in thinking that they have less than 100 battle brothers who actually fight?

However many suits of terminator armour = however many marines they fight with at that time. It's less that the other marines are sitting around bored, but more that they are doing things to secure the parts for their own armour. The end result is that each marine can preform field repairs to their armour and each has a list of what they need. How they get the equipment is based on what they do; they could be making knives, or ammo, can openers or dog tags for the Imperial Guard, or any number of other things the Imperium at large needs. Basically, the marines are rewarded for helping the Imperium by getting to fight in terminator armour.

Seriously, having a marine - the Emperor's Angels of Death, the genetically engineered elite of the galaxy, one of only a million in the entire Imperium - making dogtags for the Imperial Guard sounds like a ludicrous waste of potential. That kind of thing could be done by a munitorum servitor or a hive wage-slave, so why would your chapter stoop to doing it? What kind of exchange rate is there between dogtags and priceless, near-impossible to produce chapter artifacts, anyway? :P Given how long each marine is supposed to train every day, with about 15 minutes of free time - when they are supposed to pray to the Emperor, is this dog-tag stamping and knife sharpening supposed to go on in that quarter of an hour, or are they cutting their combat and firing range practice, in which case what does that do to their military skills?

 

Each space marine chapter has imports and exports, which explains why my chapter produces various bits for the Imperial Guard. In one of the White Dwarfs (I have it, but I'd have to dig it out) it explains that, among a few censored things, the Crimson Fists import anti-static footwear and export electricity producing mammals. I imagine that given the mineral rich world they landed on, exporting some simple technologies to the guard wouldn't be too hard to justify.

The closest I can figure for the import / export for the Crimson Fists was a mention in a third ed WD (235?) which says the planet itself (not the chapter) is a big exporter of a posh type of berry - Jadeberries, IIRC. The populace, not the marines are responsible for picking them. Similarly, these electricity producing mammals would doubtless be farmed by, the civilians, because unless they were really dangerous and vital to the continued existence of the Imperium, it really wouldn't be an appropriate use of a marine's time to do it.

 

Honestly, I really think that you need to revisit your whole premise, Nem-FX.

[Telveryon]

Black + Yellow = Dark Gray. But more seriously, it was just something I hadn't seen ever done, and I figured that their two traits would make for an interesting mix. I mean, you have stubborn traits from both, but siege and heavy technological bias? How would their tactics and ideologies change? I think they'd go for heavy armour, on an individual level.

Combat doctrine and mentality (in most cases) don't come from the geneseed but from the indoctrination and training. The Imperial Fist geneseed is a perfect example, the Imperial Fists themselves are fanatical followers of the Codex Astartes, stubborn as sin and have a penchant for self punishment, the Black Templar on the other hand are a whole bunch or religious fanatics with a penchant for melee fighting and the couldn't care less for about the Codex while Crimson Fists are a pretty levelheaded group of folks, if somewhat stubborn compared to your run of the mill marines.

 

However many suits of terminator armour = however many marines they fight with at that time. It's less that the other marines are sitting around bored, but more that they are doing things to secure the parts for their own armour. The end result is that each marine can preform field repairs to their armour and each has a list of what they need. How they get the equipment is based on what they do; they could be making knives, or ammo, can openers or dog tags for the Imperial Guard, or any number of other things the Imperium at large needs. Basically, the marines are rewarded for helping the Imperium by getting to fight in terminator armour.

No offense, but a chapter would have to conquer the Eye of Terror by themselves to earn enough Terminator Armor to field all its battle brothers in that kind of armor. The Ultramarines, one of the oldest chapters with a history of unsurpassed glory (they pretty much held the Imperium together after the Horus Heresy when they were a legion) don't get nowhere near that many suite of Terminator armor. The reason this bit brings so much criticism is because you're practically saying that your chapter is better then the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Iron hands, White Scars, Dark Angers, Space Wolves, Raven Guard and Blood Angels combined, because, between them all those 1st Founding chapter can't put together 1000 suits of Terminator armor. Having your chapter better that all those revered chapters is several orders of magnitude of too much awesomeness.

[NemFX]

How can they be created after M41 and before M38?

Totally their geneseed flaw/curse. Certainly not a creator who wasn't fully paying attention. No no.

But seriously, before M38. I tried to base their timeline from the Angron article, I didn't realize however that the article wasn't written very well. The Forgebreakers took place in the Dominion of Fire, which preceded the First War of Armageddon.

 

Mixed gene-seed baggage?

If you'll look carefully, they have no extra addons or subtractions from the mixed geneseed. If anything, the mixed geneseed cancelled out the more masochistic tendencies in favour of being extra stubborn (in effect, they would have a geneseed similar to the Salamanders, just without their particular training) but it doesn't affect how they are played or any of the fluff.

 

 

Seriously, having a marine - the Emperor's Angels of Death, the genetically engineered elite of the galaxy, one of only a million in the entire Imperium - making dogtags for the Imperial Guard sounds like a ludicrous waste of potential.

Most armies waste potential. While this is sci-fi/space fantasy, I try to give each of my armies some very human traits and errors. Though, it could be considered part of their 'making up to the Imperium' thing. I mean, think of the blow to ego and morale. But even Space Marines have to follow orders B)

 

What kind of exchange rate is there between dogtags and priceless, near-impossible to produce chapter artifacts, anyway? :D

I imagine that the parts they receive are copied in the chapter forges. Being able to make your own seems pretty well worth making a few thousand tog tags. If they had the slightest automation, a forge could hammer out at least ten thousand a day.

 

Given how long each marine is supposed to train every day, with about 15 minutes of free time - when they are supposed to pray to the Emperor, is this dog-tag stamping and knife sharpening supposed to go on in that quarter of an hour, or are they cutting their combat and firing range practice, in which case what does that do to their military skills?

I never held their daily routine to be canon, simply because I can't imagine it being sustainable. I always treat my space marine armies like they have a crappy day job. Sure they are space marines, but they get to do other stuff too. I mean, really, a couple of days of factory work in the middle of running around with guns? The marines might see it as a vacation, but it also shows to them that their wargear means something in a labour/money sense. I should probably repeat that my guys don't believe in the machine spirit, or the armour being a work of art. It's just a very valuable commodity.

 

Import/Export

Fair enough, making the citizens do everything. I try not to let my armies take advantage of others. It's a partnership type of deal, not slave labour.

 

"Now you see the violence inherent in the system! Help help I'm being repressed!"

[Gree]

Dude, having marine work in a factory is a massive waste of time and rescources in both role sof war and industry. A Space amrine would have to cut down time in firing rituals and training in order to work. And I can't imagine the Inquisition behing very amused with the news that your chapter was spending time making dogtags while a nearby world was invaded, just because your chapter did not want to fight.

 

A marine's entire life revolves around war, even for liberal chapters like the Space wolves, there' entire purpose to fight, everything should be geared towards that. Giving them ''day jobs'' detracts from their war making skills and the use of the marines. The Imperium has plenty of people to work, but just a million space marines.

[Apothete]

Alot of you guys seem to have forgotten that a little suspension of disbelief goes a long way in a fun hobby

 

Didn't you notice that I'm writing an Iron Hands successor? Along with lopping off the left hand at the wrist, we have our sense of humor excised and replaced with a blinky light.

 

Given that Angron's forces started attacking the Imperium only a few centuries after their disappearance, I imagine that they'd have chalked it up to "Oh, I guess the World Eaters got them"

 

I don't think that a Chapter would disappear for a few hundred years and not have anyone notice, or at least not unless they're on a penitent crusade that nobody expects them to return from. While they're generally secretive and distrustful of outsiders, everyone likes to try to keep tabs on what the Astartes are doing and that includes any neighboring Chapters.

 

To be quite honest I resent the implication and condescending tone in some of your replies. It may sound like something thats not terribly diplomatic but the fact is you have posted in Liber, and Liber has responded. You however are responding with the assumption that we are not quite as free thinking as you or the implication that we should be. If I've judged you unfairly then so be it, but that is what comes across when I read what you have written.

 

Thirded, and done so as the person who responded to you while this was still in the wrong forum.

 

While the general aim of the Liber and the PCA forums should likely be the same, that being the improvement and encouragement of those who are making an effort, that also means that there's some responsibility for the parties who post their material to take constructive criticism seriously. If you don't want to have your Chapter commented upon in an effort to bring it closer in line to what's official within the universe then it would probably be helpful to slap a warning label up at the beginning, much as those who do female Marines typically do.

 

But more seriously, it was just something I hadn't seen ever done, and I figured that their two traits would make for an interesting mix. I mean, you have stubborn traits from both, but siege and heavy technological bias? How would their tactics and ideologies change? I think they'd go for heavy armour, on an individual level.

 

Yet, when it was pointed out to you, you ignored that it's not only an old concept but one which is typically not very well executed. Also, there are plenty of ways to explain a Chapter being particularly stubborn and unrelenting without resorting to the practice that ended up destroying an entire Founding of Marines.

 

But seriously, before M38. I tried to base their timeline from the Angron article, I didn't realize however that the article wasn't written very well. The Forgebreakers took place in the Dominion of Fire, which preceded the First War of Armageddon.

 

Nothing in the article states that those two events are sequential and the writeup very clearly has a link to the First War for Armageddon, which would have cleared up the discrepancy. I also explained the impoosbility and cited dates in my first reply to you.

 

If you'll look carefully, they have no extra addons or subtractions from the mixed geneseed. If anything, the mixed geneseed cancelled out the more masochistic tendencies in favour of being extra stubborn (in effect, they would have a geneseed similar to the Salamanders, just without their particular training) but it doesn't affect how they are played or any of the fluff.

 

(Emphasis mine.)

 

I'm going to repeat this one more time, and then I'm pretty much done if you decide that you want to go on the way that you've begun.

 

As at least three different posters have tried to explain, the effects of mixing geneseed are not benign, do not remain stable, and invariably end in tragedy for those who have appeared in the official fluff. The Lamenters no longer suffer the Black Rage but they instead have catastrophic luck that shows up at the worst times, the Flame Falcons were covered in flames at all times and were purged by the Inquisition, the Black Dragons are mutating out of control, the Fire Hawks became the Legion of the Damned, the Sons of Anteus have some kind of skeletal mutation, and so on, ad nauseum.

 

You don't need that element to explain behaviorial differences. Please don't use it.

 

I imagine that the parts they receive are copied in the chapter forges. Being able to make your own seems pretty well worth making a few thousand tog tags. If they had the slightest automation, a forge could hammer out at least ten thousand a day.

 

True, but it wouldn't be Warhammer 40k.

 

That's fine if it's what you want, but it's also not what this forum is generally used for.

 

I never held their daily routine to be canon, simply because I can't imagine it being sustainable. I always treat my space marine armies like they have a crappy day job. Sure they are space marines, but they get to do other stuff too. I mean, really, a couple of days of factory work in the middle of running around with guns? The marines might see it as a vacation, but it also shows to them that their wargear means something in a labour/money sense. I should probably repeat that my guys don't believe in the machine spirit, or the armour being a work of art. It's just a very valuable commodity.

 

See the previous point.

[dcpattyizbeast]

is there some heavy gravity world squat action coming too?

That was just mean. It wasn't that bad.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

True, but it wouldn't be Warhammer 40k.

 

Case in point. I'm done.

 

This thread feels like I'm banging my head up against a brick wall.

[Telveryon]

Mixed gene-seed baggage?

If you'll look carefully, they have no extra addons or subtractions from the mixed geneseed. If anything, the mixed geneseed cancelled out the more masochistic tendencies in favour of being extra stubborn (in effect, they would have a geneseed similar to the Salamanders, just without their particular training) but it doesn't affect how they are played or any of the fluff.

As I've said before, the Iron Hands obsession with machines and the Imperial Fists stubbornness doesn't come from their geneseed. The only chapters who's mentality is affected by their geneseed are the Blood Angels, Space Wolves and White Scars. Why have mixed geneseed just achieve something that Ultramarine and Imperial Fist geneseed already offers, it adds nothing while detracting from the overall feel of the article.

 

Most armies waste potential. While this is sci-fi/space fantasy, I try to give each of my armies some very human traits and errors. Though, it could be considered part of their 'making up to the Imperium' thing. I mean, think of the blow to ego and morale. But even Space Marines have to follow orders :)

You've also missed the fact that space marines are no longer truly human, they're a step above on the evolutionary ladder. Moreover, space marines take orders from their superiors from within the chapter. The Emperor is the only being who can give orders to a space marine from outside said marine's chapter, even an Inquisitor has to request the aid of a space marine, he can't demand it. If someone ordered a space marine chapter to make dog tags, he'd be given a funny look and then shown the way to the nearest airlock that opened into space.

 

I imagine that the parts they receive are copied in the chapter forges. Being able to make your own seems pretty well worth making a few thousand tog tags. If they had the slightest automation, a forge could hammer out at least ten thousand a day.

A billion dog tags made out of gold wouldn't be worth a shot up finger tip from a Terminator armor... The only currency that will buy terminator armor is killing the enemies of the Imperium.

 

I never held their daily routine to be canon, simply because I can't imagine it being sustainable. I always treat my space marine armies like they have a crappy day job. Sure they are space marines, but they get to do other stuff too. I mean, really, a couple of days of factory work in the middle of running around with guns? The marines might see it as a vacation, but it also shows to them that their wargear means something in a labour/money sense. I should probably repeat that my guys don't believe in the machine spirit, or the armour being a work of art. It's just a very valuable commodity.

While you may not see the daily routine as cannon the rest if the Liber does. By ignoring official and generally accepted cannon you practically impose your views on the rest of us and we don't like that very much. Now, onto the machine spirit and armor bit. Yet again you made your chapter better then any other. Even the Salamanders, who are master craftsmen, see even normal power armor as a work of art. To much awesomeness is bad...

 

Import/Export

Fair enough, making the citizens do everything. I try not to let my armies take advantage of others. It's a partnership type of deal, not slave labour.

 

"Now you see the violence inherent in the system! Help help I'm being repressed!"

Their space marines! People would kill for the honor of polishing their boots!