Death Cult Assassins

[Luc O' Luck]

Ok, now I know that my WH skills are still in their formative processes, but I've yet to figure out the justification for how little love the lists I've seen for them have displayed.

 

I may be missing something obvious, but at I5 they'll be hitting before the likes of Space Marines every time, and simultainiously with most HQ units. So if you get the charge, provided that it's not at a unit in cover, you'll be throwing out 4 ws5 strength 4 power weapon attacks per Assassin you commit to the combat. Added with infiltrator and independent rules, they can manouver pretty damned well, pincering units to attack from the sides and to provoke minimal responses in most combat.

 

With two wounds and an Invulnerable save of 5+, given that they're going to butcher most things they get the charge on, they have at least a fairly decent survivability in most combat situations. If they're getting shot at, well, you're doing something wrong failing to provide a flashy disctraction with the rest of the army.

 

Lets say you charged three of them (120pts) into a unit of ten tactical marines (175pts)

 

1. They'd be hitting on 3's with 12 attacks. Sod's law of probability would have 66.6% of those attacks hit.

2. They'd then be wounding on 4s, giving us 4 dead space marines at a minimum.

 

3. The space marine return would be limited, if you charged the flank, but let's argue that they got to strike back with six attacks.

4. Given the WS difference, space marines would be hitting 50% of the time, so that's three hits. Even with two wounds, the sods law of saves means you'd probably only loose one wound at that. Given that they're fearless, they aren't going to break.

 

But throwing these beauties into combat with a normal squad would be a waste of their potential. No, the future and beauty lies in throwing these inexpensive killers into combat with Terminators and the like, using power weapons and a raised initiative and weaponskill to decimate those expensive units.

 

Or at least, that's how I would do it. So why don't people use Deathcults that much?

[Hellbreaker]

Actually I don't know... But well, when i looked at them I just couldn't think of using them. Don't remember why... I'll check again to be sure.

 

But well they just didn't look appealing to me.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's because they are worth a KP each.

[SeanDrake]

Frag Grenades

[Luc O' Luck]

Frag Grenades = Don't charge units in cover. If you do, charge the flank where you'll face fewer attacks.

 

As to the Kill Points, they're a single unit choice, they're worth a Kill Point as a group, so you'd have to kill all three of them for the KP.

[the jeske]

cover, kill points and mr culitist mets mr fist . they wont wipe a 10 man squad and a fist instant kills them . true los means its hard to hide them and they dont work very well as support for an eversor. they do nothing against LR rush builds . no mini max means they do get beaten by even 10 man tacticals . mulit shot weapons spamed by everyone to counter horde dont help them too.

[Apogee]

DCAs are excellent in two situations - counter charges and flank charges. Don't try to cross the board, they just get shot up. Also don't forget that while they're all noe KP, they're all also one unit each. This is good and bad:

Good - can't shoot all of them, only one at a time.

Bad - if you lose combat by, say, three wounds (easy if they are supporting sisters or guardsmen), they EACH take 3 wounds for being fearless.

 

Basically, if they win combat, they really win. But if they lose, they're goners. Whatever you charge, make sure you can take them down quickly. This means almost nothing in cover, and nothing with I5 or better.

 

Ignoring cover, they are good against just about everything, if they kill a bunch on the charge. So flank with all or none, or countercharge with all or none. Don't split them up.

[Captain Malachi]

You can't just say don't charge units that are in cover. The game doesn't work like that, the opponent has some say in how the game goes as well.

[number6]

The combat effectiveness of all the assassins has been nerfed by the transition to 5th edition last summer. But DCAs got hurt the most. Most of these reasons have already been mentioned.

 

* No offensive grenades, so you can't charge them into cover.

 

* They are worth a KP each, making them serious liabilities in 1/3 of all standard games.

 

* Kill zones no longer exist. Charging a unit "in the flank" doesn't work anymore. When your assassin(s) charge in, the opponent must also pile into you. (Every enemy model must move up to 6" to maximize base-to-base contact.) And even if your assassin(s) kill several models, those models can be taken from anywhere. Smart opponents will take models that, despite the enforced counter-charge, are still not engaged in the combat. Meaning that everybody gets to hit your assassins. Thus...

 

* Losing a close combat is much more likely. And much deadlier. And being Fearless means that your assassin(s) will take as many wounds as the value by which the combat was lost. With only a 5+ save, those assassin(s) aren't going to stick around beyond the first round of combat much of the time. (Remember that every assassin will suffer all wounds, because they are independent units.)

 

In my estimation, DCAs really aren't worth taking anymore. I loved using them in 4th edition, but even then they were glass hammers. Sometimes they'd be great, other times they would be worthless. I can't see any real tactical advantage to using them in any 5th edition games. Pull them out for laughs, but that's about it.

[Apogee]

Keep in mind that the morale checks work both ways - I had 6 DCAs charge a mob of 30 orks, and chase them down when they ran. Took one wound.

[Commander Sasha]

Apart from loving the models...

 

Expect them not to last too long, but, if they can tie up an enemy unit for several rounds, denying moving, shooting & scoring, that's quite an achievement for a 40pt unit!

 

Get 3, as one choice; send 2 deep into enemy territory at set up (easy to hide LOS for infiltrate: size 0, can hide behind a lamppost!), keep the third safe in a group of boys; even if the first 2 get killed, no KP until the 3rd goes down.

[Uncle Mel]

like #6 said i believe they are worth a KP each, just like imoerial guard infantry squads.

 

Mel

[the jeske]

keep the third safe in a group of boys; even if the first 2 get killed, no KP until the 3rd goes down.

 

each one is worth 1kp . if you lose two and hide one your opponent still get 2KPs.

 

 

size 0, can hide behind a lamppost

5th ed has true LoS unless you specially model units out of straws you will not hide behind a lamppost.

[Race Bannon]

Unless it's a THICK lamppost :)

[Grand Master Tyrak]

size 0, can hide behind a lamppost

 

I didn't realise their bodysuits were that tight. :)

[Thaelion Hexis]

size 0, can hide behind a lamppost

 

I didn't realise their bodysuits were that tight. :D

 

It's what all the murderous, rampaging supermodels are doing :lol:

 

I have never used them myself, though I can see potential. Outflanking. Each one may be a kill point, but it is still one model. If one shows up and my opponent has to waste a whole squad's shooting at that one model, it's a good distraction for my Grey Knights. If not, it gives the assassin a little time to get closer. Even better if multiple assassins come from different table edges, again, forcing my opponent to waste firepower on single units scattered over the board. A few free kill points, though if my Grey Knights get the chance to get to killing range it is a good sacrifice. Those kill points will be made up for fairly quickly.

 

I may get some to try them out, throw a Callidus in there. It is all about distraction and misdirection. In theory, at least.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I like mine, but as I've said in other threads on this topic, assassins in and of themselves won't win the day. Working in tandem with other units and situations though, the can be very effective. As pointed out earlier they are much better melee combatants than most of our other options. It is true that Kill Point wise they aren't so hot but they're still very effective tools when used with other units or as backup. Generally they are underestimated by our opponents and have a lot of use in that regard.

 

This is a thread I replied many of my thoughts on assassins:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=148894 titled "Assassins under the new Codex"

[Gentlemanloser]

In addition to Number6's excellent write up;

 

They cost as much as a single TH/SS Terminator, and are no where near as effective.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I would say they're more effective than a TH/SS Terminator, in the job that the assassins are intended to do.

 

They are NOT a front line combat unit, designed for endurance and not going away. They ARE an excellent tool for lone characters, isolated smaller units (say, artillery crews, the techmarine maning the laser quad gun thing, heavy weapon squads, etc) or as supplemental attackers for a close combat unit (CC Inquisitor squad, Seraphim, Arco-flagellants, etc). They also are credible threats that force an opponent to start making decisions in terms of target priority.

 

They have a lot of use, it's just a more tactical, subtle use. Some people will like them, some won't, but I don't think they're ineffective.

[benmothershaw]

I would say they're more effective than a TH/SS Terminator, in the job that the assassins are intended to do.

 

They are NOT a front line combat unit, designed for endurance and not going away. They ARE an excellent tool for lone characters, isolated smaller units (say, artillery crews, the techmarine maning the laser quad gun thing, heavy weapon squads, etc) or as supplemental attackers for a close combat unit (CC Inquisitor squad, Seraphim, Arco-flagellants, etc). They also are credible threats that force an opponent to start making decisions in terms of target priority.

 

They have a lot of use, it's just a more tactical, subtle use. Some people will like them, some won't, but I don't think they're ineffective.

I use mine as a front line combat unit. I move and run into cover and use 'go to ground' (3+ cover), this way anyone who comes close isn't in cover. It's a great distraction unit too. Besides the iniative 5 is great with GKT because she can sweeping advance while the GKT wouldn't be able to!

I disagree with your comment about them being better than a TH/SS! 4A on the charge who can knock down independant characters and big beasts, they can back a unit of GKT even with a GM too!

[Inquisitor Fox]

You can only get 4 attacks on a charge with TH/SS though on a Brother-Captain or Grand Master. As per the BRB now Thunder Hammers cannot get bonus attacks from additional weapons, including a Storm Shield.

 

I just see Terminators (big burly warrior, rawr!) and DCA's (sneaky thief ninjas) having different battlefield roles. It could be my own take and approach on them, but having both units in my armies I've found I use them in completely different ways, in which both excel.

[Gentlemanloser]

If, they could pop up like Callies. Maybe.

 

Or even ride in Transports.

 

But they can't, and are too fragile to cross the field, where they just become an easy kill and an easy kill point for your opponent.

 

TH/SS Terminators are far more durable, and more dangerous, to more types of units, than the DCA. For the same cost. Plus they can DS instead of starting 18" away (becuase with the new TLoS/Area Terrain rules you're very unliekly to be able to infiltrate them 12" away) nicely in Rapid Fire range.

[Grey Mage]

In my neck of the woods its because theyre a KP each, and frankly they arent worth a KP- they wont make one back, ever.

[Lamenter]

There's a great 4th edition (I think) tactica at Belloflostsouls.net

 

After reading it I plan to use 6 in my DH army if I ever finish it.