The Mystic Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Quick question. Which special rule takes precedence in regards to bikes as each rule contradicts each other? Turbo boosters states that you cannot move througth difficult terrain, shoot or assualt in the turn you use them. However...... Relentless states that models with this rule may shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary even if they moved in the movement phase and are also allowed to assault in the turn they fire them. As bikes have both special rules how would you interpret them? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 There isn't really a contradiction, the only issue is considering turbo boosters normal movement, which it isn't, relentless provides no overriding of the Turbo Boosters special rules restrictions. Or to say it differently, Turboboosters restrictions have nothing to do with movement perse, they are the rules very own limitation. It just happens that the advantage the rule provides is movement based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mystic Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Well as relentless states you can shoot rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary even if you moved in the movement phase, without specifying the type of movement, it could be interpreted that it could overule the shooting limitations from turbo-boosting. Thats why I was questioning which would take precedence as it is unclear. A simple example would be: Attack bike turbo-boosts 24" in the movement phase. Shooting phase, attack bike shoots heavy weapon as according to the relentless special rule it counts as stationary even though it moved in the movement phase. RAW would, I think, allow this as the relentless special rule does not specify what type of movement in the movement phase, only that it moved. Not trying to be a rules lawyer, but thought it was a bit strange to possibly do this as it would be a MAJORLY! overlooked advantage. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Sasha Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Everyone I know plays it as Turbo denies other actions; RAW read to me as: Relentless says that Rapid/Heavy weapons can fire when moving as if you were stationary, ie a specific condition of those weapons, whereas Turbo EXPLICITLY says you cannot shoot, assault, adjust tie, or anything else voluntary. This doesn't include shouting "Wheeee!", as that is involuntary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mystic Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 The RAW for Relentless states: "Relentless models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase, and are also allowed to assualt in the same turn they fire them." Now as it does not specify the type of movement, RAW I think would allow this as Turbo-boosters are a form of movement in the movement phase and in the following shooting phase Relentless would overule the restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Relentless says they may shoot despite having moved, because moving typically precludes them from shooting. That is, relentless overrides typical movement/shooting restrictions. Turbo-boosters has its own rules. It isn't just that you're moving, but you're turbo-boosting, and that means you cannot shoot no matter what, with no qualifiers. If you really want to read this RAW, I'd say for shooting purposes they still count as having not moved, but they cannot shoot regardless, because of turbo-boosting. The whole thing becomes a wash, and in the end it acts like turbo-boosting is "trumping" relentless. But in reality, they are both applying at the same time, they are not conflicting, and the model cannot shoot because of turbo-boost. Perhaps another way to think of it is that turbo-boost doesn't overpower relentless, but it works at a more fundamental level. So while relentless says, "moving doesn't stop you from shooting," turbo-boost says "I don't care if you moved or not; you can't shoot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 As I said before Turbo boosters is not movement, it is a special rule. It grants a special movement and possesses a few restrictions. Much like fleet doesn't allow you to assault after deep striking and then running, relentless allows you to fire after moving and does not overrule the special rule turboboosters anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 The wording for turboboosting states that "...they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute any other voluntary action in the same turn." p.76 BRB. So no they can't shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Were you actually planning on pulling this on someone in a game? The rule is clear, there is no way around it. Turbo boost explicitly says no. RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mystic Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 No. I just thought it appeared as it could be interpretted that way as it does'nt specify the type of movement and that turbo-boosters is a special rule that affects movement, not a move in itself. I was mainly checking as I plan on going to the UKGT this year and I am curently going through the rules as I am not an expert and would like to make sure I know what I am doing :lol: Thanks for the clarification anyway guys! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 As I said before Turbo boosters is not movement, it is a special rule. It grants a special movement and possesses a few restrictions. Much like fleet doesn't allow you to assault after deep striking and then running, relentless allows you to fire after moving and does not overrule the special rule turboboosters anywhere. i think thats the best analogy and clearly explains it, just because you can shoot as if you hadn't moved doesn't stop turbo boosting rule saying you cannot shoot at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Indeed. Though it's a neat observation, Souchan has the right of this one. Turbo-boosters is a special rule which a player can choose to activate during the movement phase. It has several effects, including increasing the movement allotment of the model using it. One of its effects is that it stops the model using it from shooting or assaulting later in the same turn. The restriction against shooting or assaulting doesn't come from the turbo-boosting model having moved--it comes from the turbo-boosting model having activated the turbo-boosters rule. You could say, "this bike is turbo-boosting," and then not move it at all, and it still wouldn't be able to shoot or assault. It would have stood still, and it wouldn't matter because using the turbo-booster rule prevents you from shooting or assaulting whether you move or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 No. I just thought it appeared as it could be interpretted that way as it does'nt specify the type of movement and that turbo-boosters is a special rule that affects movement, not a move in itself. I was mainly checking as I plan on going to the UKGT this year and I am curently going through the rules as I am not an expert and would like to make sure I know what I am doing :) Thanks for the clarification anyway guys! ;) Fair enough. Damn good reason for asking the question. :( Good luck with the GT! RoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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