Tales of Heresy short story collection +++ Spoilers +++

[Aurelius Rex]

I didn't see this pop up here yet - other than references to specific stories or characters, so as I have just finished reading it I thought I would get the ball rolling.

 

The book contains seven stories from different authors, set at various points during and before the Heresy. Taking the stories one at a time:

 

Blood Games by Dan Abnett

Generally accepted to be BL's best author - though he is not immune from writing the odd dud, I must say - Dan Abnett delivers a surprisingly disappointing piece. The premise is great - a custodes running a live test on security surrounding the Emperor, and it does indeed have some quite nice insights into the Adeptus Custodes, but the writing is strangely fractured in places. The last section is very jarring, flipping from a seeming resolution to a headlong chase to save the world that added very little, and simply made it seem like the BL editors had missed a couple of pages during printing. Maybe this was a teaser for a later Custodes novel, but it didn't satisfy as a one-off.

 

Wolf at the Door by Mike Lee

Some pretty samey plot and dialogue make this forgettable unless you are a mad Space Wolf fan. This might have been set at any time with only some minor edits, with nothing integral to the Heresy. It has the feel of a story that could have been submitted to the 'Heroes of the Space Marines collection, but was rapidly retooled to fill out the page count on this book instead.

 

Scions of the Storm by Anthony Reynolds and Call of the Lion by Gav Thorpe

I will lump these in together as they follow the same format disturbingly closely, in both plot and average quality of the writing. Both feature 'nice guy' protagonists who after battling the enemy realise they are actually not so bad. They then call the rest of the legion, who teleport in with terminators and cut the high councils to shreds with bolter-fire. Interchangeable writing that hardly stirred the blood.

 

The Voice by James Swallow

Nice to hear about the Sisters of Silence, but their characters seemed pretty thin, and the plot twist a frankly jumbled mess to get some mileage out of a time travel paradoxes that even Star Trek Voyager would be embarrassed to use. From the writer of the Flight of the Eisenstein, and shares some minor characters... but on this basis I won't be going out of my way to read the Blood Angels series.

 

The Last Church by Graham McNeill

Having read several of McNeill's books and often finding them very poor quality, cookiecutter stuff, I was pleasantly surprised with this entry. While it is still not great storytelling, and the holes in the arguments are quite large, it is at least an attempt to try something different beyond the usual 'batrep' format of these tales. I couldn't even bring myself to finish the abominable Fulgrim with all its 'stupid people acting stupidly', and the endless repetition of the word 'perfection'... Could this be a sign that there is hope after all for this author?

 

After Desh'ea by Matt Farrer

The best is saved until last in this book. Unlike much BL works, this shows some very nice characterisation for Angron as a remarkably calm Khârn tries to talk to him after he has been whisked off away from his now murdered gladiator rebel brothers. All in, the best entry of the book. Insights... poignency, a sense of setting... if only they could all have attained this standard.

 

 

Overall, a very mixed bag, with some gems, the expected lame excuses for stories that are sometimes poorer than the fanfic you could find on these boards for free, a good author coasting, and an over-rated hack pulling off a personal best.

 

3 stars out of 5 - mostly for the Angron and Last Church stories.

 

 

Anyone else care to review the book?

[Azazal]

After Desh'ea by Matt Farrer

The best is saved until last in this book. Unlike much BL works, this shows some very nice characterisation for Angron as a remarkably calm Khârn tries to talk to him after he has been whisked off away from his now murdered gladiator rebel brothers. All in, the best entry of the book. Insights... poignency, a sense of setting... if only they could all have attained this standard.

 

Anyone else care to review the book?

 

Read the stories as well, over all I was entertained, but then again I like to turn off my brain when reading these and just go with the flow. Though the "the humans we're trying to pacify are bad are really good" plot got tiring. It would have been nice to see something along the lines of: marines from any of the legions that wound up joining Horus in a campaign to liberate a world from a massive ork invasion, only to have their commander deem that the world was lost and had to be exterminated due to a building waaggghhh that would sweep through several systems. Then have the marines start to mental consolidate how the Emperor was trying to save humanity, and yet would allow several billion to be wiped out if it meant stopping the orks.

 

As for After Desh'ea in particular, something that did come up for me, did Angron's actions doom the World Eaters? He killed off the high command of the legion during his fit of rage. What would have happened if those men were still there when Angron was tempted to betray the Emperor, could they have kept him and the legion loyal?

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

Couldnt agree more with you Rex. The thing I found the most disapointing is that there seemed to be so much potential wasted.

 

Blood Games. Sure we got to see how the defences were coming along and the odd belief the Custodes has in defeating a Primach?.

 

Wolf at the door. Found it rather sobering and a good outlook of a Space Wolf. My main concern is it just felt cut of from anything, like it was happening in a void. Whenever there was an oppurtuinty to place some aspect of the HEresy it was sidestepped or ruthlessly crushed till the last lines.

 

Scions of the Storm/Call of the Lion. These two like yourself it appears have become meshed into one blob of... ? Im not relly sure what it is meant to be. I understand the role behind it and all but it never sparked or left an impact.

 

The Voice. This is the biggest disapointment from me. Normally I can cruise through a book without truly having to turn on, more so in a 40K book. This one forced me to sit up and pay attention and not in a good way. But I find this with any James Swallow novel so its of no suprise for me.

 

The Last Church. Being a practicing atheist with a number of Christian friends I found this more like a conversation I would have if we were all drunk or had glossed over a bit on either stance. It was interesting in the sense that it showed aspects of the early Imperiums character under the generic atheist response of "religion is uber bad, because of like, the =][= and crusades, like?" and the Religiou response of "my faith is untouchable because i say so, cant hear you la la la la" However because it was something different it held me attention till the end and I agree things look promising after the travesty that was Fulgrim, im glad ive found someone else who couldnt stand the repetiton. It seems every man and his dog has swithced positions regarding Fulgrim lately.

Maybe its because they read the first few stories of this book and thought maybe it wasnt SO bad :cuss

 

After Desh'ea. The standout for me. Unbelivable the amount of character and sense of purpose I got out of so little pages, and in a 40K Sci-fi novel at that!. The difference in Angron to Khârn was great and I found myself re reading this one entry a number of times. I really hope Farrer sticks with the BL and churns out a few more pieces, id love for him to be give reign over a book on the WE hes made a brilliant setup and it would be a shame to pass it off onto another author. I really cant rate this high enough, it could be that my opinion is a bit biased as I had to run my eyes over the sandpaper that was the first few stories but I can see him certainly producing equivelent or better than some of Abnetts best if given a chance and some room to head his own way.

 

Overall id give it a 2/5 but the last two stories by themselves would make it a 3.5-4

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

He killed off the high command of the legion during his fit of rage. What would have happened if those men were still there when Angron was tempted to betray the Emperor, could they have kept him and the legion loyal?

 

I have a feeling it wouldnt have mattered to much. Everyone was subjected to the psycho thingies in thier head and id assume that the obvious loyalty these marines had in standing there and being torn apart by thier mad Primach wouldnt have swayed what little opinion they had before the implants.

[Dràyhèn]

The Voice by James Swallow

 

Found this one rather umm dumm boring. "Okey, we need to investigate that ship." Quiet. Some random doggies. Sister. Lets go. Charge!

Liked the ending, that was fascinating, but otherwise it was quite boring read. Not any real action, no political elements, no big secrets, no interesting characters, nothing cool. A bit rushed, or at least that was the feeling I got. This had some potential, but no.

 

Scions Of The Storm by Anthony Reynolds

 

This one was 'pretty cool', didn't bother to read seriously, just went with the flow. It was quite cool to imagine that enormously big superstructure, and the environment overall gave a nice feeling. Anyways, can't deny that this felt too much like a basic astartes drop pod assault, nothing "AWESOME" or "SUPER-COOL", except that big dome and those spires. The ending, in this one too, was good, basic but working. Though my respect for Lorgar dropped some degrees right in the start. Look, he acted like some crying little child. Thought he was a man and took the rebuke with rage and silent cursing, taking it like a man and thinking why. Not going with tears and all the emo-stuff... c'mon, wasn't that bad. He CRIED, like a baby (hopes and prays that no Word Bearer ever reads this)

 

Blood Games by Dan Abnett

 

This one was something new, and I liked it. It revealed something new of Custodes (besides, we haven't been blessed with much of custodes action) and I was guessing all the time who that guy was. The ending was stupid, ridiculous indeed, like ripped from some Bond movie. It could've been something more minor, that was a way too big thing, out of scale if compared to rest of it. Actually, it wouldn't have been that bad, if the story had been built more around it, if they had expanded the story.

Overall I liked it until the stupid ending, just because we haven't seen any Custodes action for ages, if never. The whole start was good, especially that sneaking and everything, that was just so surprising when he was revealed to be Custodes, not any chaos minion or assassin, as I suspected. Just the ending, it was screw'd up.

 

The third best.

 

The Last Church by Graham McNeill

 

This was good because it was something new, nice arguing, nice environment, nice characters, nice story overall. Liked everything in it, kept me reading till the end without making me bored. Both characters were interesting and quite fleshed out and that arguing was quite interesting, though there wasn't any truly marvelous or clever arguments, it was still cool reading. One single thing I didn't like, was the last phrase the Emperor said: "Lets go, we've a galaxy to conquer."

It gave a little bit stupid image of the Emperor Of Mankind, arrogant, over-confident, well you get the point. He could've said anything else but that, that just sounded so silly. And I liked a lot of that old man, the way he kept his beliefs his own till the end, no matter what was said or shown, he couldn't abandon and see his beloved church burned to ashes, he perished with his church like a true believer, he couldn't believe in to a world without god, even though he was revealed in the end, that the Emperor was the god he had seen. He was still happy of how his life had turned out, he did what seemed right to him.

And that clock in the end, that was tòuche. Nice little detail that crowned it.

 

The second best.

 

After Desh'ea by Matt Farrer

 

My respects for Khârn rose like a rocket after this one. He was impressing. Took all that beating and everything, and finally managed to convince that gladiator bastard, that was his primarch. The way he was portrayed was well done. That fleshed out his character a lot, he was always "The Blessed Of The Blood God" to me before this. Angron was just as I thought he would and should be, honourable, aggressive and totally brutal. Khârn took the job and finished it with honour, came back beaten, battered & broken, but victorious. The setting was clear and simple, but still it rose to a winners position. It left me with a feeling, that Matt Farrer should be granted to write the book where World Eaters spit on their oaths of loyalty. I crave more, now I truly wait that WE novel to appear.

 

The Winner.

 

ps: Rex, the Blood Angels series were actually quite good. This one wasn't his best, really. At least I liked the Blood Angels series quite a lot.

[Prathios]

The Voice by James Swallow

 

Found this one rather umm dumm boring. "Okey, we need to investigate that ship." Quiet. Some random doggies. Sister. Lets go. Charge!

Liked the ending, that was fascinating, but otherwise it was quite boring read. Not any real action, no political elements, no big secrets, no interesting characters, nothing cool. A bit rushed, or at least that was the feeling I got. This had some potential, but no.

 

 

Scions Of The Storm by Anthony Reynolds

 

This one was 'pretty cool', didn't bother to read seriously, just went with the flow. It was quite cool to imagine that enormously big superstructure, and the environment overall gave a nice feeling. Anyways, can't deny that this felt too much like a basic astartes drop pod assault, nothing "AWESOME" or "SUPER-COOL", except that big dome and those spires. The ending, in this one too, was good, basic but working. Though my respect for Lorgar dropped some degrees right in the start. Look, he acted like some crying little child. Thought he was a man and took the rebuke with rage and silent cursing, taking it like a man and thinking why. Not going with tears and all the emo-stuff... c'mon, wasn't that bad. He CRIED, like a baby (hopes and prays that no Word Bearer ever reads this)

 

Blood Games by Dan Abnett

 

This one was something new, and I liked it. It revealed something new of Custodes (besides, we haven't been blessed with much of custodes action) and I was guessing all the time who that guy was. The ending was stupid, ridiculous indeed, like ripped from some Bond movie. It could've been something more minor, that was a way too big thing, out of scale if compared to rest of it. Actually, it wouldn't have been that bad, if the story had been built more around it, if they had expanded the story.

Overall I liked it until the stupid ending, just because we haven't seen any Custodes action for ages, if never. The whole start was good, especially that sneaking and everything, that was just so surprising when he was revealed to be Custodes, not any chaos minion or assassin, as I suspected. Just the ending, it was screw'd up.

 

The third best.

 

The Last Church by Graham McNeill

 

This was good because it was something new, nice arguing, nice environment, nice characters, nice story overall. Liked everything in it, kept me reading till the end without making me bored. Both characters were interesting and quite fleshed out and that arguing was quite interesting, though there wasn't any truly marvelous or clever arguments, it was still cool reading. One single thing I didn't like, was the last phrase the Emperor said: "Lets go, we've a galaxy to conquer."

It gave a little bit stupid image of the Emperor Of Mankind, arrogant, over-confident, well you get the point. He could've said anything else but that, that just sounded so silly. And I liked a lot of that old man, the way he kept his beliefs his own till the end, no matter what was said or shown, he couldn't abandon and see his beloved church burned to ashes, he perished with his church like a true believer, he couldn't believe in to a world without god, even though he was revealed in the end, that the Emperor was the god he had seen. He was still happy of how his life had turned out, he did what seemed right to him.

And that clock in the end, that was tòuche. Nice little detail that crowned it.

 

The second best.

 

After Desh'ea by Matt Farrer

 

My respects for Khârn rose like a rocket after this one. He was impressing. Took all that beating and everything, and finally managed to convince that gladiator bastard, that was his primarch. The way he was portrayed was well done. That fleshed out his character a lot, he was always "The Blessed Of The Blood God" to me before this. Angron was just as I thought he would and should be, honourable, aggressive and totally brutal. Khârn took the job and finished it with honour, came back beaten, battered & broken, but victorious. The setting was clear and simple, but still it rose to a winners position. It left me with a feeling, that Matt Farrer should be granted to write the book where World Eaters spit on their oaths of loyalty. I crave more, now I truly wait that WE novel to appear.

 

The Winner.

 

ps: Rex, the Blood Angels series were actually quite good. This one wasn't his best, really. At least I liked the Blood Angels series quite a lot.

 

 

Just a note on Scions. Lorgar believed the Emperor to be his god. If your god rebuked you, you don't take it on the chin and walk proud, your grovel and cry and gnash your teeth. This isn't a school teacher telling you its detention time, his god rebuked him. The whole point of gods is that when they yell at you its a big deal, able to make even the mightiest of men grovel. Its why they're gods. Of all the Primarchs Lorgar was the MOST likely to behave this way after being rebuked.

 

On a side note I don't understand the review system used when reviewing these books. It seems to me that many of you go out of your way not to enjoy a good story. Now, if your job is to destroy a book and make sure everyone hates it just like you did then I fully understand. But sense these books are for entertainment and nobody hired you to review them why would you torture yourself and not just enjoy the books as they are supposed to be enjoyed? Being critical is one thing but some of you really take this too seriously. Unsurprisingly I thought they were of mixed quality but I enjoyed them all. Only Last Church left me cold due to its horrifically poor characterization of the Emperor and the childish arguments presented in the debate.

[Aurelius Rex]

On a side note I don't understand the review system used when reviewing these books. It seems to me that many of you go out of your way not to enjoy a good story. Now, if your job is to destroy a book and make sure everyone hates it just like you did then I fully understand. But sense these books are for entertainment and nobody hired you to review them why would you torture yourself and not just enjoy the books as they are supposed to be enjoyed? Being critical is one thing but some of you really take this too seriously. Unsurprisingly I thought they were of mixed quality but I enjoyed them all. Only Last Church left me cold due to its horrifically poor characterization of the Emperor and the childish arguments presented in the debate.

The review system is an honest discussion of what people thought of the book in question. There is no ulterior motive. What is wrong with someone stating a reasoned opinion on a book? It isn't a witchhunt or something! :lol: My review pointed out both the good points and the bad - something that you yourself have commented upon with your comment on the Final Church. ;) If I had nothing good to say about the book I probably wouldn't have finished it - like Fulgrim - but because of the variable nature of the book it seemed like an interesting subject for a discussion.

 

Isn't that part of what this board is all about?

[deus lo volt]

After Desh'ea is one of the best short stories I've read. And not just 40k short stories!

 

When Khârn lifts his head and says: "Salute your Primarch" I almost saluted! :lol: ;) :(

 

 

Well done Matthew Farrer!

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

On a side note I don't understand the review system used when reviewing these books.

 

I wasnt aware there was another way of critiquing books, movies etc?

 

Now, if your job is to destroy a book and make sure everyone hates it just like you did then I fully understand. But sense these books are for entertainment and nobody hired you to review them why would you torture yourself and not just enjoy the books as they are supposed to be enjoyed?

 

You kind of explained it yourself here. Just because no one hired me doesnt mean I shouldnt be critical of a book, some people dont like to buy every BL one unlike some of us and if they dont understand the poor charcterisation and the fact two stories were pretty much the same would you want to be spending it on a inferior book? These books are made for entertainment but they didnt entertain.

 

After reading everyones review, myself included, sure there is negativty but there are also highlighs of positives and im not to sure if it should be any other way. I have a very small disposable income atm due to being a uni student and living by myself and to basically have wasted money for two short stories and what probably amounts to a cominded totalof one from the rest im not overly impressed. Sure this would have warped my perception than say may rex or yourself but it is still a crituqe and most of us seem to agree on the faults of his bok. You highlight the Final Churchs poor arguments and characterisation in the same way I did with no less critical words

[Prathios]

On a side note I don't understand the review system used when reviewing these books.

 

I wasnt aware there was another way of critiquing books, movies etc?

 

Now, if your job is to destroy a book and make sure everyone hates it just like you did then I fully understand. But sense these books are for entertainment and nobody hired you to review them why would you torture yourself and not just enjoy the books as they are supposed to be enjoyed?

 

You kind of explained it yourself here. Just because no one hired me doesnt mean I shouldnt be critical of a book, some people dont like to buy every BL one unlike some of us and if they dont understand the poor charcterisation and the fact two stories were pretty much the same would you want to be spending it on a inferior book? These books are made for entertainment but they didnt entertain.

 

After reading everyones review, myself included, sure there is negativty but there are also highlighs of positives and im not to sure if it should be any other way. I have a very small disposable income atm due to being a uni student and living by myself and to basically have wasted money for two short stories and what probably amounts to a cominded totalof one from the rest im not overly impressed. Sure this would have warped my perception than say may rex or yourself but it is still a crituqe and most of us seem to agree on the faults of his bok. You highlight the Final Churchs poor arguments and characterisation in the same way I did with no less critical words

 

What I really wanted was how do you critique them? I was always taught a good review contains pros and cons and yet when I read overwhelmingly negative comments with a trivial pro tossed in I wonder about the conclusion... In fact I wonder why bother reading 40k at all. If you consider all the books to be the same old stuff I would assume you would not read them any longer. And since review is totally subjective I wonder what rule is being used as a constant? What is a 5 star book versus a 1 star, would a 1 star even be finished? I certainly wouldn't finish a book that I would give such a low score too. And the op noted Fulgrim as a terrible book and yet many people on the board listed it as their favorite. I think book reviews are perhaps the most subjective of all because of the nature of the human mind and the requirement for you to visualize and follow the author with no cues other than whats on the page.

 

And as for my review of Church I still said I enjoyed it. In the end I enjoyed all the stories and I think I was able to better do so because I was not looking for mistakes. If I had read these reviews before hand I might not have picked up the short story book, and this would have been a mistake. I disagreed with most of the reviews a great deal but I go into each story expecting to be entertained and do my best to enjoy them. And as such, I do.

 

However this has caused me to consider posting my own review post, perhaps go through my collection of 60 or so BL books and review them all. Though I have yet to find one I didn't enjoy at least somewhat, so perhaps its a waste of my time.

[Aurelius Rex]

@Prathios: Of course a review is going to be subjective, and of course different people will like different things. That is why I asked for the views of other people at the end of my first post.

 

My review, while certainly not the most in-depth, was an honest assessment of my feelings about the various stories. I found them to be of varying quality. Some I thought were very good, and I said so, while still mentioning elements that were weak, and there were others that were not as good, that I certainly won't bother to read again. I don't recognise your attribution of the review as universally damning. Some good stories, some bad. Did you mean that I should find something nice to say about every single story? Would you even accept that there is such a thing as good and bad writing, if even from a technical point of view?

 

I get the impression from your posts that you don't think that people should post a review of something they didn't enjoy. That seems like a very odd criteria, and bound to unduly skew it towards the positive. I would rather an honest discussion of the good and the bad from as many people who have read it as possible, including one from you.

[Brother Eneok]

Just a few quick bits about the stories that stuck with me.

 

Blood Games- Nice little "Secret-Service" type story about the body guards of the Emperor. Found it entertaining.

 

The Last Church- I thought was a GREAT story without much battle and high action, yet it kept me captivated until the end. I was a bit surprised that Revelation was who he was. Did anyone else find themselves thinking that all the arguements Revelation used against religion, could be used against the outcome of the Great Crusade? There was a part in the book about religion causing massive death and destruction, doesn't that in fact happen during the crusade, but it isnt the same in the Emperor's eyes because he is "right"? Near the end of the story I found myself wondering if the Emperor wasn't a bit of a zealot himself.

 

After Desh'ea- GREAT story as well. I second what everyone here has said about it.

[Prathios]

@Prathios: Of course a review is going to be subjective, and of course different people will like different things. That is why I asked for the views of other people at the end of my first post.

 

My review, while certainly not the most in-depth, was an honest assessment of my feelings about the various stories. I found them to be of varying quality. Some I thought were very good, and I said so, while still mentioning elements that were weak, and there were others that were not as good, that I certainly won't bother to read again. I don't recognise your attribution of the review as universally damning. Some good stories, some bad. Did you mean that I should find something nice to say about every single story? Would you even accept that there is such a thing as good and bad writing, if even from a technical point of view?

 

I get the impression from your posts that you don't think that people should post a review of something they didn't enjoy. That seems like a very odd criteria, and bound to unduly skew it towards the positive. I would rather an honest discussion of the good and the bad from as many people who have read it as possible, including one from you.

 

Well from a technical standpoint I very much think there is bad writing, but at the same time I've read some really bad stuff, and so far nothing I've read in the 40k series would go in that category. I think the worst 40k stuff can be filed in the mediocre or uninteresting but not truly bad.

 

I think to do an honest review you would have to find something nice to say, unless you give the story a 1 or a 0 (depending on what the scale goes to). Clearly if the story got a 2 or 3 star review it had some redeeming qualities. I mean 3 stars would be average no? Its just like movies for me, The Core was probably one of the worst movies I've ever seen. It was so terrible that I was fearful that my dvd player was going to be damaged. However the special effects were not bad and the movie is fantastic to mystery science theater. I'd still give it a one because its good qualities just aren't enough to pull it out of the abyss its negatives caused.

 

But its my attitude of being easy to please that likely makes me a poor critic of some things. I'm not sure how helpful my reviews would be to people who are not like me. But I get so tired of reviews feeling the same. It feels like every reviewer makes it their job to look down on the material and to me I always ask what makes anyone qualified to make that judgment. As a writer myself I know how difficult it can be to put a story like this together and at the very least I think respect should be given if the story entertained.

 

My point with not reviewing something you didn't enjoy was that if you don't like the 40k universe or are tired of its stories why bother reading them at all? The attitude that they're all the same I think is a wanton exaggeration of the truth. Don't feel persecuted I just try to defend things like this when I feel like they are being overly criticized.

[Aurelius Rex]

My point with not reviewing something you didn't enjoy was that if you don't like the 40k universe or are tired of its stories why bother reading them at all? The attitude that they're all the same I think is a wanton exaggeration of the truth.

I don't recognise your premise here at all. Where did it say in the review that the stories were all the same? There was certainly a comment that two of the stories had the same basic plot, but the praise awarded by just about everyone who has responded here has been unanimous that the Angron story was very good indeed - hardly damning 40K fiction as being all the same. Similarly, I said that Dan Abnett is generally accepted as the best author in the BL stable - including by me, as I have just finished re-reading five of the Ghosts books - yet that is not enough to gag me when I read a poor entry from him.

 

Don't feel persecuted I just try to defend things like this when I feel like they are being overly criticized.

So some BL output I find very good, others are truly dull. If you find something to enjoy in each of them, then that is fine, as long as you also accord the same courtesy to others who do honestly find a difference and genuinely express an opinion.

 

+++ Edit:

But its my attitude of being easy to please that likely makes me a poor critic of some things. I'm not sure how helpful my reviews would be to people who are not like me. But I get so tired of reviews feeling the same. It feels like every reviewer makes it their job to look down on the material and to me I always ask what makes anyone qualified to make that judgment. As a writer myself I know how difficult it can be to put a story like this together and at the very least I think respect should be given if the story entertained.

It is also a very valuable skill for a writer to be able to critically evaluate a piece, for instance examining their own work to see if it succeeds in its aims and how it can be improved. Without being able to do this, you wouldn't be able to see where and when you need to improve your own writing, surely. +++

[Prathios]

My point with not reviewing something you didn't enjoy was that if you don't like the 40k universe or are tired of its stories why bother reading them at all? The attitude that they're all the same I think is a wanton exaggeration of the truth.

I don't recognise your premise here at all. Where did it say in the review that the stories were all the same? There was certainly a comment that two of the stories had the same basic plot, but the praise awarded by just about everyone who has responded here has been unanimous that the Angron story was very good indeed - hardly damning 40K fiction as being all the same. Similarly, I said that Dan Abnett is generally accepted as the best author in the BL stable - including by me, as I have just finished re-reading five of the Ghosts books - yet that is not enough to gag me when I read a poor entry from him.

 

 

Ok for starters this is the culmination of tons of threads on the books. This is just the latest in a series and the majority of the comments left about the stories are negative. I see good criticism for what it is and many of the points made are very valid but after a certain degree you wonder why people bother. It seems that in many cases the critic just feels like complaining. You don't recognize the premise? Re-read the thread. I'm not singling you out, it just happens you were the op. And yes, I understand everyone liked the Angron story, I agree it was great. And saying Dan is the best author in the stable does not offer much to go on. I don't know how you view the stable. And I did not find the custodes story a "poor" entry. It ended poorly but the entry itself was still very enjoyable, unique and well written.

 

So some BL output I find very good, others are truly dull. If you find something to enjoy in each of them, then that is fine, as long as you also accord the same courtesy to others who do honestly find a difference and genuinely express an opinion.

 

I find this at least a tiny bit ironic because I don't find anyone being particularly courteous about my opinion that people are being overly critical. I was immediately jumped on for this opinion which I phrased in an quizzical manner. I asked a question about methods and motives and instead of an answer got sarcasm and criticism of my views... ;)

 

It is also a very valuable skill for a writer to be able to critically evaluate a piece, for instance examining their own work to see if it succeeds in its aims and how it can be improved. Without being able to do this, you wouldn't be able to see where and when you need to improve your own writing, surely. +++

 

I think its interesting that I can be self aware enough to see this flaw and yet you give me no credit. If you are that defensive because I asked why people are so critical than I apologize but I grow very weary of defending my position, its a valid one. Click on any of the book reviews here or any topic containing them to enjoy a healthy dose of negativity. I just think the reviews are overly critical and negative and it makes them less helpful than they otherwise could be. Read any science fiction outside of the 40k stable and you can see that in general they have a very high quality of writing as an average. I suppose if your rule is comparing them to Mark Twain or some such you can claim this is a false assertion but then I have to question your methods. And for the record I am my own worst critic. There is nothing wrong with anyone writing reviews and stating opinions, but there isn't anything wrong with me asking why the general sense of negativity. :huh:

[Brother Casman]

Ignoring the by-play (no offence, folks), I would say that the book is worth buying for After Desh'ea alone. The Last Church was another nice piece, though I thought it was rather obvious who Revelation was. I thought the other stories were largely fun; but other than the last two, nothing really stood out for me. On the whole, I did enjoy it, I would say.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The Last Church- I thought was a GREAT story without much battle and high action, yet it kept me captivated until the end. I was a bit surprised that Revelation was who he was. Did anyone else find themselves thinking that all the arguements Revelation used against religion, could be used against the outcome of the Great Crusade? There was a part in the book about religion causing massive death and destruction, doesn't that in fact happen during the crusade, but it isnt the same in the Emperor's eyes because he is "right"? Near the end of the story I found myself wondering if the Emperor wasn't a bit of a zealot himself.

 

Oh yes - a recurring theme throughout Grimdark is that there is no magical answer to Humanity's problems. Whatever path you take, the same problems will keep cropping up again and again, no matter what causes them. That's part of why Uriah goes back into the burning church - the Emperor has promised to end that kind of behavious, when in fact he's just encouraging it for a different cause.

[Tyrannicide]

From the few replies above, I'm almost tempted to purchase the book solely for After Desh'ea. It sounds like it's almost worth the cash just for that story! :P

[Dràyhèn]

Well, the collection isn't that expensive, and at least I enjoyed it enough to consider it worth of buying.

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

I wont reply to each point of your points Prathios but I was interested in what other form of critque you were referring to, not personally trying to start a flame war. I see your position but I always find that if you point out the negatives and it is still great then it is truly worth your time. Like ive said if you only have 20 in your wallet (such as me) id say save it for a model, look at another book etc whereas as an author its obvious this would be disheartening to be reading.

 

However I will state that I had been up till 3 for the past four nights and I was in a rather snappy mood so sorry if you feel I or Aurellius jumped down your throat that wasnt my, or im sure, his intention. However reading your own post I can put smethin of a critical aspect on our form of reviews, though I just assumed you wished to start a bit of a discussion rather than asking it more as a question.

 

But to clarify, because you asked about what is a 5 or a one (in warhammer at least) I find Eisenhorn and The ambassador chronicles. Im not saying they are the best books I have read but they kept my attention and actually drew me into reading them. A one would be any Deathwatch book, Flugrim and I find litle in James Swallows writings redeeming from a fluff standpoint. The reason i read 40K is to switch off, after hours trying to figure out with Theory of Mind I find the most plausible I really want to just read something that tickles the inner child and is rather straight forward.

 

In any case this this is not the worst story I have read and if it was just the last two short stories I would say it is worth buying. With the few in front this doesnt make it a worse purchase but it certainly adds very little.

[Aurelius Rex]

So as not to derail this thread any further I was going to hold off on the wider question of what constitutes 'good' and 'bad' BL fiction, its purpose and the validity of criticism in general.

 

It might be a very interesting basis for a new thread in Amicus Aedes though, if anyone would like to start it. B)

[Prathios]

@Sanguinius Chosen Wing

Thank you for clarifying your position. I can much better see where you are coming from with that in mind.

 

For the record though I actually did very much like the first three stories. I am a huge space wolf fan, I forgive the ending to the first story, and finally the tragedy of Lorgars betrayal I think may be more depressing than Horus's.

 

Perhaps I will start that thread Rex. I think clarification of ones review system and what to them constitutes good or bad is important in defining the review.

[SamaNagol]

I think After De'Shea is the best entry in the book because it is effectively a single chapter of a larger story. It didn't try to do too much. It gave itself enough space to actually let characters develop, rather than cramming a more complicated story into too little a space.

[Brother-Kezek]

I think After De'Shea is the best entry in the book because it is effectively a single chapter of a larger story. It didn't try to do too much. It gave itself enough space to actually let characters develop, rather than cramming a more complicated story into too little a space.

 

That was an awesome story. After reading it, I truly feel the Emperor himself set Argon on his path to damnation. I'm starting to hear the call of the blood god.

[Ashur]

I must purchase this one.

I read somewhere that the emperor shows up with a different appearance. Is that true ?