Giga Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My local hobby club made it a point to test all special characters when their codices came out and found that Vulkan has 1 downfall compared to other SM characters and it isnt even a big 1, he can't take a command squad. Just whack him and 5 Vanguard vets with Thunder Hammers in a Razorback and slam into the enemy lines. Then just watch the carnage :D Don't do this. Vanguard veterans suck for their price. Putting Vulkan into a razorback means he can't assault on the turn he disembarks. Assault Terminators + Vulkan + Land Raider of your liking are a much, much better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 My local hobby club made it a point to test all special characters when their codices came out and found that Vulkan has 1 downfall compared to other SM characters and it isnt even a big 1, he can't take a command squad. Just whack him and 5 Vanguard vets with Thunder Hammers in a Razorback and slam into the enemy lines. Then just watch the carnage :lol: Don't do this. Vanguard veterans suck for their price. Putting Vulkan into a razorback means he can't assault on the turn he disembarks. Assault Terminators + Vulkan + Land Raider of your liking are a much, much better choice. Tiny point of technicality - he can charge when he disembarks, just not after the vehicle has moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshta Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Vulkan is a special character. There is ONE of him in the entire 40k Universe. What are the chances that he's going to be leading an assault of 40 odd marines in a random skirmish against a rag-tag group of Orks? Not likely. What are the chances he's going to be doing that repeatedly? Again, fairly slim. What are the chances that that small strike force is going to be backed up by over 10% of the entire Chapters 1st company? You do the math. 2 things- First- Your discounting your battles so much fluffwise. My battles are always the most Epic/Important things ever! For example the 40 space marines vrs some random orks should be The 40 space marines are the only thing that stands in the way of a chapter orphanage with children with cancer. Second- Remember GW already cleared the whole multiple characters up. Its a different guy with the same stats! My chapter has Sir Awesome McCrusher face, you may see him as Vulkan, but rest assured he is Crusherface. However he has the same gear and he uses the same styles of skills... RAWR SIR AWESOME McCRUSHERFACE! I really don't get all the complaining about land raiders... Bring more melta's and watch them cry. If everyone is doing it tailor your list to beat land raiders.... 250+ points, SO what if it is nearly the same list, EVER Tau player i play has a hammerhead! Ever IG player brings a tank! Just do it and move on! And lastly for all you super fluffy players that have themed lists, AWESOME JOB, I really respect the player that brings in the all bike list over the 5 LR lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fintan Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 2 things-First- Your discounting your battles so much fluffwise. My battles are always the most Epic/Important things ever! For example the 40 space marines vrs some random orks should be The 40 space marines are the only thing that stands in the way of a chapter orphanage with children with cancer. Entirely possible though it still seems unlikely that the 1st Company of a Space Marine chapter is going to be deployed to save children with cancer. This is the grimdark future remember, it's more likely that they'd be elsewhere, saving things of more importance to the imperium than children who are going to die anyway. Second- Remember GW already cleared the whole multiple characters up. Its a different guy with the same stats! My chapter has Sir Awesome McCrusher face, you may see him as Vulkan, but rest assured he is Crusherface. However he has the same gear and he uses the same styles of skills... RAWR SIR AWESOME McCRUSHERFACE! You just proved my point better than I ever could. It's just silly. I really don't get all the complaining about land raiders... Bring more melta's and watch them cry. If everyone is doing it tailor your list to beat land raiders.... 250+ points, SO what if it is nearly the same list, EVER Tau player i play has a hammerhead! Ever IG player brings a tank! Just do it and move on! My problem with the Landraiders in small games was due to fluffy reasons, it has nothing to do with actual gameplay. Landraiders are a free 250pts/KP for me as I pack a lot of melta weapons into my units, I just dislike seeing such a venerable and ancient vehicle rolling around supported by....what.....a tactical squad and a scout squad?! And lastly for all you super fluffy players that have themed lists, AWESOME JOB, I really respect the player that brings in the all bike list over the 5 LR lists. Sorry, not biting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I guess it comes down to my fluff != your fluff and my fun != your fun. Everyone should build their armies and play the way they want but don't expect everyone else to conform to your way of playing/having fun. That and the whole fluffy versus hard/tourny list stereotypes are never productive. As for going against fluff, I personally play UM 2nd Co. Marines and try to stick to my version of their fluff/playstyle with a flexible/balanced list that seems to me would fit the teachings of the Codex Astartes. However, sometimes I get the itch to try something new like a bike list, a Sally/Vulkan list, a Dreadnought spam list, or who knows what. While GW would LOVE for me to go out and buy a bunch of new models that I could paint to match the appropriate chapter, my wife would be far less pleased, so I keep with the UM paint scheme even if the list doesn't match the UM fluff perfectly. That doesn't make me a bad person/player... just a cheap one. The important thing is to make sure you and your opponent know what you both are getting into in a game. If I intend to bring my hardest list, I tell my opponent so he doesn't bust out his non-optimized list that he put together for giggles. Same if I'm going to bring my random list that I want to give a whirl. If we're playing a fluffy scenario or something, then we both lay out our expectations of what would fit the scenario and what would not. That way both players bring lists that are roughly on the same order of competitiveness. Just remember, communication and courtesy fix 99.9% of the problems that can arise in a 40k game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Vulkan is a special character. There is ONE of him in the entire 40k Universe. What are the chances that he's going to be leading an assault of 40 odd marines in a random skirmish against a rag-tag group of Orks? Not likely. I just have to get my say on this: I didn't tie the Chapter Tactics to the Special Characters - GW did. If I could take the Chapter Tactics for my Chapter without having to take a special character - beleive me, I would...but I can't. So don't shoot the messenger. I will use Vulcan with my Salamanders army each and every time because that is how GW set it up. See, I like to play my armies fluffy. So I take melta and flamer weapons and very little Fast Attack. This puts me at a disadvantage. So why shouldn't I benefit from the advantages that a Salamanders army is suppose to have? GW wrote the rules so I would have to take a Special Character to do that. Why blame me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshta Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Second- Remember GW already cleared the whole multiple characters up. Its a different guy with the same stats! My chapter has Sir Awesome McCrusher face, you may see him as Vulkan, but rest assured he is Crusherface. However he has the same gear and he uses the same styles of skills... RAWR SIR AWESOME McCRUSHERFACE! You just proved my point better than I ever could. It's just silly. I agree with you, but the special characters are a way to give us our Traits back! Don't forget the freedom and the choices we had in the great previous codex. It gave so many options till it was replaced by special character SPAM! I really do think the specail characters are a horrible way to give us chapter traits, but at least its a way to make our armies just slightly different then the 1.7billion space marine players out there. (that happen to pick all the same traits!) GW has a lot of stupid rationals for things that they do. And lastly to combat your argument of having so many land raiders, i'll direct you to my chapters fluff. "We are the cheeseballs of Dorn, we have an unlimited supply of Land Raiders, Dreadnoughts and Plasma Cannons. But in no way to we break the normal rules!" Sincerely, McCrusherface! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshta Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Vulkan is a special character. There is ONE of him in the entire 40k Universe. What are the chances that he's going to be leading an assault of 40 odd marines in a random skirmish against a rag-tag group of Orks? Not likely. I just have to get my say on this: I didn't tie the Chapter Tactics to the Special Characters - GW did. If I could take the Chapter Tactics for my Chapter without having to take a special character - beleive me, I would...but I can't. So don't shoot the messenger. I will use Vulcan with my Salamanders army each and every time because that is how GW set it up. See, I like to play my armies fluffy. So I take melta and flamer weapons and very little Fast Attack. This puts me at a disadvantage. So why shouldn't I benefit from the advantages that a Salamanders army is suppose to have? GW wrote the rules so I would have to take a Special Character to do that. Why blame me? 100% agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fintan Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Vulkan is a special character. There is ONE of him in the entire 40k Universe. What are the chances that he's going to be leading an assault of 40 odd marines in a random skirmish against a rag-tag group of Orks? Not likely. I just have to get my say on this: I didn't tie the Chapter Tactics to the Special Characters - GW did. If I could take the Chapter Tactics for my Chapter without having to take a special character - beleive me, I would...but I can't. So don't shoot the messenger. I will use Vulcan with my Salamanders army each and every time because that is how GW set it up. See, I like to play my armies fluffy. So I take melta and flamer weapons and very little Fast Attack. This puts me at a disadvantage. So why shouldn't I benefit from the advantages that a Salamanders army is suppose to have? GW wrote the rules so I would have to take a Special Character to do that. Why blame me? You do have a very valid point and I'm sorry that I've generalised players like yourself in with those who play for the sake of winning, but out of every army that contains Vulcan, how many do you think are truly drawn to the fluff and how many do you think put him in the army solely to be competitive? I guess my real problem is indeed with Games Workshop but the aforementioned gamers don't exactly help matters, nor the fact that they're in the vast majority. I'd never even seen a Salamanders army until 5th Edition came out. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshta Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 You do have a very valid point and I'm sorry that I've generalised players like yourself in with those who play for the sake of winning, but out of every army that contains Vulcan, how many do you think are truly drawn to the fluff and how many do you think put him in the army solely to be competitive? I guess my real problem is indeed with Games Workshop but the aforementioned gamers don't exactly help matters, nor the fact that they're in the vast majority. I'd never even seen a Salamanders army until 5th Edition came out. Coincidence? WHOA WHOA, don't toot my horn yet! I use 2 Daemon Prince's w/lash list in my khonre army! :) Just saying that if some one called me out in my special character list... thats what i would say. I use two types of lists, My "fun" list and the list that "doesn't get me kicked out of the local shops".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fintan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 You do have a very valid point and I'm sorry that I've generalised players like yourself in with those who play for the sake of winning, but out of every army that contains Vulcan, how many do you think are truly drawn to the fluff and how many do you think put him in the army solely to be competitive? I guess my real problem is indeed with Games Workshop but the aforementioned gamers don't exactly help matters, nor the fact that they're in the vast majority. I'd never even seen a Salamanders army until 5th Edition came out. Coincidence? WHOA WHOA, don't toot my horn yet! I use 2 Daemon Prince's w/lash list in my khonre army! ;) Just saying that if some one called me out in my special character list... thats what i would say. I use two types of lists, My "fun" list and the list that "doesn't get me kicked out of the local shops".... I'm not, it was aimed at Bannus. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshta Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 BURNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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