Prepping for my first game

[Hackbar]

Next week I'm road-tripping out to Arizona with a friend of mine to hang out with a mutual friend of ours. This mutual friend got me interested in 40k (to be fair, I've been interested for a long time, he just pushed me over the edge) with his Macragge starter set a while ago, and I've gone and ordered C:SM, the Black Reach starter set, and a box of Grey Knight Terminators because I couldn't resist their sheer awesomeness. When I arrive, there will be a rougly 1000-point confrontation between Space Marines with Grey Knight allies and a 'nid horde.

 

Here's my problem: My opponent has a hand-picked Tyranid list containing just the units he wants, purchased individually. I have whatever SM units come in the Macragge and Black Reach starter sets plus my box of Grey Knight Termies. As I understand it that's 2 10-man Tac squads with ML and Flamer and sergeants with BP and CCW, 1 5-man Terminator squad with no special weapons, 1 Dreadnought with standard equipment, and a captain with what looks like a bolter and CCW. On top of that I plan to take a GK hero with (up to) 4-man Terminator retinue as allies, and as I understand it the box set limits me to 1 Incinerator for special weapon choices.

 

I know for sure I'll be facing gaunts, probably genestealers, a tyrant, and a carnifex all set up for melee, as well as a biovore and zoanthrope of unknown setup. I know he has some ranged gaunts from the macragge and his tyrant and carnifex are done up with magnets so he could easily go ranged or really any setup he desired, but he has expressed distaste for anything other than a full on melee horde as 'nids.

 

So, within the limits of WYSIWYG, what do you all think is the best anti-'nid list I can pull together with the models I have and how should I play them? E. G. Should I deep-strike the terminators or put them on the broad from the start to maxmize my ranged firpower, etc.?

 

 

Edit: It appears my friend also has a Rhino he might let me use, that he bought because a local game store was closing and it was the only item they had left.

[Balog]

If it's a friendly game wouldn't he let you proxy and counts as?

[Hackbar]

If it's a friendly game wouldn't he let you proxy and counts as?

 

You would think so, but he's relatively new to 40k and totally new to 5th ed, so we're trying to do things by the book.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Good thing you have the termies, they're great against nids. Move around, Blast the little bigs and swing away with PF's at the big ones. Also dreads tying up weaker infantry would be nice. It's not a horrible setup as flamers and ML's will be about perfect. Just wish you had PF's on the tac sarge's.

[Hackbar]

Just wish you had PF's on the tac sarge's.

 

So do I. It's probably the first thing I'll buy/convert after I get a scout squad and maybe some Sternguard.

Question: From what I've read around here while lurking the past months I gather that Grey Knight Grand Masters can somehow ignore rules preventing Instant Death, but I don't see anything like that in C:DH. How exactly does this work?

[Fintan]

Just wish you had PF's on the tac sarge's.

 

So do I. It's probably the first thing I'll buy/convert after I get a scout squad and maybe some Sternguard.

Question: From what I've read around here while lurking the past months I gather that Grey Knight Grand Masters can somehow ignore rules preventing Instant Death, but I don't see anything like that in C:DH. How exactly does this work?

 

Bit of a grey area that one and something that's been hotly debated in the past. Because C:DH is a 4th Edition codex, the wording in it doesn't always comply with the updated wording in the 5th Edition Rulebook. A force weapon in C:DH implies that the target is "Killed outright" whereas in the rulebook that term is known as "instant death". So DH players argue that because their force weapon technically doesn't count as instant death but killed outright instead, models that are normally exempt from instant death can still be killed outright. Same result, just a different name. I don't know if it's been officially FAQ'd yet, but make sure you come to a reasonable conclusion before you go down, as instant-deathing his Hive Tyrant for example is going to lead to a stall in the game if you've not explained the difference beforehand, and agreed to use it.

 

I've only played Tyrannids once thus far and it was Nidzilla as oppose to a more balanced Horde like the one you seem to be facing. If he really is melee heavy then naturally don't be too keen on getting into Hth. If you can get the chance to deploy second, refusing a flank by deploying everything into one corner is also a viable tactic against Horde opponents, as it means that his army tends to hit you in seperate pieces unless he gets some really fantastic running rolls, hopefully giving you the chance to blow it apart bit by bit. The only thing I'd be truly worried about is scuttling Genestealers, never had to play against them so haven't got any game-experience to share with you I'm afraid. Regardless, I think it's good that you're starting to play by the book as it means you won't pick up any bad habits should you decide to start playing competitively. Hope this has helped, have a good game man. :)

[Hackbar]

Thanks for clearing that up. I was mostly just trying to look for a way around not being able to one-shot puny Gaunts with big weapons like a GK Nemesis weapon or Relic Blade if I decide the sword on the Captain model is such. As long as I have to roll for damage, even on a 2+, I fear the wrath of the dice gods. From my experience with the Macragge starter set last year, I fear anything that can move fast and through cover. That may be because of the dumb scenario victory condition wherein the SM player loses if any 'nid model gets into base contact with any of his, however. I didn't actually get to see how Marines fare in CC.

[Vel'Cona]

Agreed w/ Fintan. You'll want to stay very mobile with your Termies, which Storm Bolters allow you to do in spades. Don't bother Deep Striking, just pound fire at max range as much as possible, then use your high Strength in CC to finish the Monstrous Creatures. Definitely take his Rhino if you can, keeping your Tactical Squads as mobile as possible is a great idea, and remember you can fire from the top hatch of your Rhino with your Flamers! Oh, and the Battle for Black Reach Captain's sword is actually a Power Weapon, and can be stretched to a Relic Blade if you're so inclined (I've seen more than one player do just that).

Definitely focus fire his Genestealers if he takes them, and stay away from table edges as much as possible to avoid Outflanking. From personal experience, they can mess up everything up to and including Terminators with little difficulty, especially in units of 8+.

As far as the Nemesis Force Weapon and Instant Death, it is generally agreed on that the GK Grand Master does get to "kill outright" as the rule puts it. Another argument I have heard about is that the Nemesis Force Weapon is NOT held to the rules for generic Force Weapons, thanks to its specific entry in Codex: Daemonhunters and the fact that it has the "Nemesis" surname. To reinforce this concept, it should be noted that ALL other Force Weapons in current codices reference the 5th Edition Warhammer 40k Rulebook (see C:IG, C:CSM, and C:SM for examples), whereas the C:Daemonhunters entry is quite specific with its own rules, and no reference to pages in the 5th Rulebook.

I apologize in advance for my attack of rules lawyering; I have had similar arguments with friends when I heard they were taking SoB allies with Vulkan (the ultimate oversight in C:SM, hands down).

[Hackbar]

OK I picked up a box of scouts because I couldn't resist and the LGS had them cheap.

I'm trying to build my 1k points and so far I'm looking at:

 

HQ:

Captain (Chapter Master?)

-Power Weapon (Relic Blade?)

-Bolter w/ Hellfire Rounds

-Artificer Armor?

-Aux. Grenade Launcher?

 

 

Troops:

 

Tactical Squad

-Sergeant w/ boltpistol and chainsword (and Teleport Homer?)

-9 Marines w/ ML, Flamer

 

Tactical Squad

-Sergeant w/ boltpistol and chainsword (and Teleport Homer?)

-9 Marines w/ ML, Flamer

-Rhino (?)

 

Scout Squad

-Sergeant w/bolter (and Teleport Homer?)

-4 Scouts w/bolters, HB w/ Hellfire Rounds

 

Elites:

 

Dreadnought

-Dreadnought CCW

-Multi-Melta

 

Terminator Squad

-Sergeant w/ storm bolter and powerfist

- 4 Terminators w/ storm bolter and powerfist

 

Allies:

 

Grey Knight Hero w/Retinue

-Brother-Captain w/NFW and stormbolter

-4 Terminators w/ NFW and stormbolter (1 Incinerator?)

 

All this comes in between 750 and 1k points depending on which options are selected.

 

My initial idea was to drop the teleport homers and the Rhino, spend the extra points loading up my commander and the GK Hero with whatever equipment I can BS my way past WYSIWYG on, and deploy in a line abreast with scouts and Tac marines holding the center and the Terminators and Grey Knights anchoring the ends of the line and taking on any outflankers. I'm not sure what I would do with the dreadnought, though, aside form have him hold the center and wait for a chance to charge.

 

Another idea was to deploy and move in a tight formation near the middle of the map, to minimize the danger from outflanking, and put teleport homers on everyone, keeping the Termies and Grey Knights in reserve to deal with any surprise lictors or outflanking moves.

 

Finally, I'm strongly considering running the Captain as a newly-promoted (or just humble) Chapter Master since the Orbital Bombardment would be one of the few weapons I can get with high strength and good AP without WYSIWYG getting in the way, and I don't know what else I have besides massed fire to take out the zoanthrope and anything else he runs with 2+ armor. On top of that I fully expect he'll deploy enough models that the bombardment is bound to hit something.

 

So how's this list for a start?

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

I'm just going to give you a yes/no on certain things

 

HQ:

Captain (Chapter Master?)<25 points for a strength 10 pinning pie plate YES YES YES

-Power Weapon (Relic Blade?)<expensive but actually gives you a chance against tyrants

-Bolter w/ Hellfire Rounds<good choice, don't get bonus for BP here anyway

-Artificer Armor?<Embarrasing to lose a chapter master to nid shooting, but in assault with most enemies having PW's and rending it's up tp you

-Aux. Grenade Launcher?

 

 

Troops:

 

Tactical Squad

-Sergeant w/ boltpistol and chainsword (and Teleport Homer?)

-9 Marines w/ ML, Flamer

 

Tactical Squad

-Sergeant w/ boltpistol and chainsword (and Teleport Homer?)<No T-homer, termies should be shooting straight from turn 1

-9 Marines w/ ML, Flamer

-Rhino (?)< If you want to make a tactical squad immune to gaunts and able to relocate and roast without worry yes, rhinos are a must.

 

Scout Squad

-Sergeant w/bolter (and Teleport Homer?)<Same as tac squad

-4 Scouts w/bolters, HB w/ Hellfire Rounds<why bolters? If you haven't modeled them yet take BP/CCW or shotguns and make them go for objectives or small gaunt squads

 

Elites:

 

Dreadnought Nothing to say here, solid choice

-Dreadnought CCW

-Multi-Melta

 

Terminator Squad<Anti nid right here

-Sergeant w/ storm bolter and powerfist<doesn't he have a Power sword? try to get a Heavy weapon for added schananigans

- 4 Terminators w/ storm bolter and powerfist

 

Allies:

 

Grey Knight Hero w/Retinue< if it's all you have fine, but normal termies would do just as good

-Brother-Captain w/NFW and stormbolter

-4 Terminators w/ NFW and stormbolter (1 Incinerator?)

[Hackbar]

Thanks for the input, Stern.

Yes, the terminator sergeant does have a power sword, that was my mistake. As for heavy weapons, I would have to buy a box of termies to get any, and I need to find out how much some car repairs are going to cost before I go and spend any more on 40k.

In regards to the Grey Knights: yep, they're all I have. I bought them because they look awesome. XD

with regard to the scouts: why would I take anything but bolters when I have a Hellfire Heavy Bolter in the squad? They can't move and fire the HB, so they might as well get the range boost to Bolters from standing still and maybe get to shoot. I suppose I could arm them all with shotguns or BP/CCW and use them as you suggest, but I'm counting on the hellfire HB especially against high toughness monsters since I don't have many high STR weapons to work with. The sort of utility/cleanup role you're suggesting seems like it would be better filled by the tac squad in the rhino, but then that is admittedly a good chunk of firepower to be potentially not shooting.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Well, If you really wanted bolters on scouts you could. But scouts have lower BS/WS and save, so their not really a good fire base. I suppose they could be holders if you had enough of them but they're usually much better offenders because in CC thy always get their save except from rare PW's and rending and don't get outclased by enemy shooters. I'm just saying if you haven't modelled them with bolters yet this is all opinion. GKT will still do well (Incinerator Nom nom nom) and initiative PW's will make them viable at assaulting anything, more generalist than other terminators.

[Hackbar]

OK, turns out I can't afford it all points-wise.

 

Here's my current list-in-progress at 975 pts

 

HQ

Chapter Master

-Hellfire Rounds

-Relic Blade

-Aux Grenade Launcher

-Artificer Armor

(180 pts total)

 

Troops

Tactical Squad (sergeant+9)

-Sergeant w/ BP+CCW

-Flamer

-Missile Launcher

(170 pts total)

 

Troops

Tactical Squad (sergeant+9)

-Sergeant w/ BP+CCW

-Flamer

-Missile Launcher

-Rhino (no upgrades)

(205 pts total)

 

Troops

Scout Squad (sergeant+4)

-Sergeant w/bolter

-3 Scouts w/bolter

-Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire Rounds

-Camo Cloaks

(100 pts total)

 

Elite

Terminators (sergeant+4)

-Sergeant w/ Storm Bolter+Power Weapon

-4 Terminators w/ Storm Bolter+ Power Fist

(total 200 pts)

 

Elite

Dreadnought

-Dreadnought CCW

-Multi-Melta

(total 105 pts)

 

 

Here's what I think of it:

 

Pros:

-lots of bodies, which means lots of guns and I can take a lot of wounds and be in a lot of places at once.

-terminators, dreadnought, relic blade, missile launchers, and hellfire HB mean every squad can conceivably damage the high-toughness monsters, and half of my units can reliably do serious damage to them.

-Orbital bombardmenr, grenade launcher, frag missiles, flamers, and hellfire HB mean I can throw out some AOE attacks to thin the horde

-Rhino gives at least some tactical flexibility with my tactical squads, while the scouts can infiltrate and lay low or draw off a portion of his force

-it's under 1k points but uses almost all of my models

Cons:

-I don't get to use the GK Terminators I went and paid for, which leads to

-Chapter Master's Relic Blade is the only strong CC weapon that strikes at initiative

-Strong melee units are all small units (IC, walker, 5-man squad) and thus vunlnerable to massed fire or just plain luck

-poor firepower on the move, unless I close to within rapid-fire range and leave myself vulnerable to a more or less guaranteed assault should I fail to kill my target.

 

Opinions/suggestions?

[waaanial00]

I appreciate that you want to keep it WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) but if you want to add on 25 points there there are two ways you can do it (assuming that your opponent will allow you up to two "counts as").

 

1- Put a power fist in one of the Tactical Squads. Those are going to be your ace in the hole against Monsterous Creatures as it essentially gives you a 10 wound power fist model in power armour unless you are unlucky with wound allocation and saving throws ;)

 

2- Give your Dread Extra Armour and a heavy flamer. This will give it more of a chance to burn away nids and allow it a little extra chance to keep on the move if shaken. Hey as you have 25 points to spare why not pay it to ensure your dread is more mobile and killy.

 

As for buying terminator heavy weapons well, search out "the warstore" online and you should find that they have a bits ordering system. Ok they may be a little low on bits right now but if you subscribe to their mailing list and keep an eye out you should be able to get all the bits you need without having to pay a lot of cash and expanding your army needlessly.

 

Wan

[Hackbar]

Battle Report!

 

After much madness (My friend gave me a Land Raider Crusader and a Veteran Squad, plus I bought a Razorback and Sternguard squad, and he bought a nice big Tyrannid battleforce, most of which are still being assembled) we determined that my friend (I'll call him Andaelas, his screen name) didn't have as much in the way of Tyranids as we thought, in particular lacking the Zoanthrope and hive Tyrant. As such, we settled in a small 500 point battle while the glue dried on the rest of our armies.

 

Space Marines:

 

Captain

-Relic Blade

-Aux. Grenade Launcher

-Artificer Armor

(160 pts total)

 

Tactical Squad x2

-Sergeant w/ BP+CCW

-Flamer

-Missile Launcher

(170 pts each fro 340 pts)

 

 

Tyrands:

 

Warrior Brood

-Flesh Hooks

-Adrenal Glands (I)

-Toxin Sacs

-Rending Claws

-Devourers

-Extended Carapace

-Bio-Plasma

(92 pts total)

 

Genestealer Brood

-Scuttlers

-Flesh Hooks

(160 pts total)

 

Gaunts

-Spinefist

-Without Number

-Extended Carapace

-Adrenal Glands (WS)

(80 pts total)

 

Carnifex

-Adrenal Glands (WS)

-Bio-Plasma

-Scything Talons (x2)

-Spine Banks

(118 pts total)

 

Biovore

-Frag Mines

(50 pts total)

 

 

I don't have a turn-by turn rundown, sadly, as the game was interrupted enough that we lost track of what turn it was. I think we finished up around turn 5 or 6.

 

Deployment: I set up one Tac squad on my right flank where they could advance into cover quickly. The other squad I split in to combat squads, with the Captain joining the Sergeant and flamer marine in the center of my deployment area, and the missile launcher marine leading his team into cover on the left flank.

The tyranids deployed their genestealers facing off against my larger Tac Squad (the genestealers were deployed normally and did not use their scout move, an error on Andaleas's part that went unnoticed) the gaunt squad facing off against my smaller missile squad, with the rest more or less in the middle.

 

Basic action: The warriors advanced behind the carnifex, moving to engage my Captain and the combat squad he had joined, while the gaunts and genestealers charged towards their respective targets, both taking serious damage from massed bolter fire. Frag missiles proved ineffective despite pinpoint accuracy due to bad to-wound dice. the Captain's squad received the Carnifexes' charge and was duly slaughtered, though the Captain managed to score two wounds on the fex before going down first turn. Only the sergeant (who managed a wound on the 'fex with a string of sixes and would later prove important) survived due to a Combat Tactics fall back move rolling 12".

 

On the right flank, the tactical marines finished off the genestealers but found themselves open to shooting from the Warriors and eventual assault from the Carnifex. Though they were able to get a krak missile off, they rolled a 1 to wound and were slaugtered in melee without enough luck to finish off the carnifex.

 

On the left flank, the gaunts charged with only 3 members left but still managed to keep the missile launcher tied up for ages. The surviving sergeant from the combat squad charged in to help them, clearing out the gaunts and leaving him free to charge the warriors next. Meanwhile, the carnifex finished off it's prey and found itself open to another krak missile, which also rolled a 1 to wound. No luck for me. The carnifex died to a lucky bolter shot as it lumbered across the table, with a total of 4 krak missiles rolling 1 either to hit or to wound over the course of the game.

 

The absolute highlight of the game, however, was the battle between the lone sergeant and the warrior brood. After wounding and fleeing from a carnifex, that sergeant (whom we have named Gawain the Invincible) went on to kill 2 gaunts, and then tarpit the warrior brood for 3 straight turns BY HIMSELF, killing off 2 warriors and wounding the third before finally being killed by a roll of 6 to wound from a rending talon. The offending warrior was promptly gunned down by the 2 surviving marines, and we called the match a draw. (Kill points were equal, and all he had left was a biovore (which failed to cause an unsaved wound the entire game) and a fresh (thanks to Without Number) gaunt squad with no synapse creatures.