ordanance + night fight/shrouding

[angry man]

i was playing against a grey knight army today. i chose to target a unit of GK termies with one of my vindies so tested for shrouding - i failed. the rules in the daemonhunters codex say that because of this, the distance that the pie plate scatters is doubled. (i believe the same method applies for night fight, but am not 100%).

 

my question is, do you double the result and then deduct your BS, or do you deduct my BS and then double that value? (in the game we decided we would double and then deduct, which was irritating as i only rolled a 4 to scatter. oh well...)

 

hope someone can help

 

AM

[rat of vengence]

Well, all other things like power fists etc double, then modify. I would be tempted to go with what you both decided unless someone has a better rule reference.

 

Actually, what EXACTLY does the codex say? If it is as you described, then the distance scattered is the final result, so I would modify first.

 

Confused you yet? :P

 

 

RoV

[Cale]

Follow a standard order of operations for mathematical formula. Multiply, then add. That's how pretty every other similar situation is handled, when there are explicit rules, and it's the only assumption with real-world precedent in situations, like this one, where there is no explicit answer.

[nighthawks]

the shrouding rule states "double their scatter distance" (C:DH P8). scatter for blast (odrinance) is 2D6-BS. scatter for barrage (no LOS) is 2D6. these are defined on P30 and 32 of the BRB.

 

from my reading, this yields the following equation:

 

(2D6 - BS) * 2 = scatter when beyond shrouding distance

 

would be the order in which the rules are described. (2D6 - BS being scatter, and scatter * 2 being the penalty from shrouding)

 

and for what it's worth, order of operations is PPMDAS: parenthesis, powers, multiplication and division, addition and subtraction. which applied to the above yields the same result. it does not mean "perform all multipliers first, always" though I understand that in the case of a marine with a PF and furious assault you would have Sfist = (Sprofile * 2) + 1 on the charge, this is because the S is augmented by the fist before the FA bonus.

 

Suffice it to say that you should discuss this with your opponent before you play - if he has a GK list, it's a topic to have on your pre-game list.

[Frosty the Pyro]

the shrouding rule states "double their scatter distance" (C:DH P8). scatter for blast (odrinance) is 2D6-BS. scatter for barrage (no LOS) is 2D6. these are defined on P30 and 32 of the BRB.

 

from my reading, this yields the following equation:

 

(2D6 - BS) * 2 = scatter when beyond shrouding distance

 

would be the order in which the rules are described. (2D6 - BS being scatter, and scatter * 2 being the penalty from shrouding)

 

and for what it's worth, order of operations is PPMDAS: parenthesis, powers, multiplication and division, addition and subtraction. which applied to the above yields the same result. it does not mean "perform all multipliers first, always" though I understand that in the case of a marine with a PF and furious assault you would have Sfist = (Sprofile * 2) + 1 on the charge, this is because the S is augmented by the fist before the FA bonus.

 

Suffice it to say that you should discuss this with your opponent before you play - if he has a GK list, it's a topic to have on your pre-game list.

This is how i would do it. the Order for things like fist and furious charge are done because both have an effect on the same thing (strength). In this case however scatter isnt 2d6 and then modified by BS, scater IS 2d6-bs. sort of akin to tyrinid biomorphs, they actualy change the units profile as oposed to modifying it (this matters because of how tyrinid weapon work).

 

Side note, we learned the the order of operations as PEMDAS with E for exponenents, to avoid confusion between using P for both parenthesis and powers I would assume.