Sgt.Sangha Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 hey guys I read descent a while back and later I found out that Zaherial later becomes the lord cypher of 40k. I recently went back and re read the book to see how I could have missed such a detail but unfortunately I could not find it. Maybe after reading all my psych texts and all these exams I have forgotten how to read between the lines of a normal book or I have lost the understanding of foreshadowing, none the less can some one explain how this came to be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 As far as I know it's not certain, however given the frequent attention given to the role of Cypher and Zahariel's interest as well as knowledge of the true identity of the Marine who becomes Cypher in DoA it's highly plausible that Zahariel will eventually become the Cypher infamous in 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2019203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yea we are pretty sure thats what will happen bit it hasn't happened yet Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2019217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Ah, but it is far from certain. In the new Dark Angels HH book the lord cypher is described Guess what, twin pistols, and thats not Zaherial Not concrete proof but I have to admit, where does the conclusion that it is Zaherial come from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2023708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevulf Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Well don't know for sure (haven't read the Fallen Angels yet) but many people believe that Zahariel really is Cypher we all know... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2023793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have yet to read doa, can someone give me a run down of the character of zaherial? Hell, I have yet to finish horus rising lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2023874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 bevulf Posted Today, 09:29 PM Well don't know for sure (haven't read the Fallen Angels yet) but many people believe that Zahariel really is Cypher we all know... A little tip: it's best not to go round saying that 'most/many/large numbers of people' think something - you may just get asked to prove it. ;) Stick to your own opinions, no-one can dispute that you know what it is. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2023885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptyn Krys Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hey guys Cypher and Zaherail are different people. Once youve read the lates DA book, it clears it all up nicley, first couple of chapters. The Cypher then (and now) is some enigmatic marine not many people really know about and runs round with a pair of pistols. Zaherial in the 2nd DA book has risen to become a librarian and close aide to Luthor. So unless Zaherial looses his psychic powers and steals the Lord Cyphers kit and flare I very much doubt they are one and the same in the curretn 40k universe. On a side not the books :D Caliban, ;) Cypher, *face palm* Lion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2024936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Cypher was probably picked from the Librarians because the original Cypher job was to keep history which is a librarian job. Also Cypher dealt with new initiates librarians screen them to see if they are psykers. Zaherail was a psyker he was sent back to the recruiting world and even though he didn't feel the Lion liked him and that was why he was sent away the Lion seems to have taken quite an interest in him. Both him and Luthor seemed to be trusted with the newest recruits. so just thinking along these lines makes me think that it could be Zaherail especially sc ince his power seemed to be close combat oriented leaving him open for two pistols instead of a Psi-staff and other weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2024986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Sangha Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I see.... to bad some of the posts have been blanked out...but then again it just adds tot he mystery of the whole thing I just cant wait to get my hands on fallen angels Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2025036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I see.... to bad some of the posts have been blanked out...but then again it just adds tot he mystery of the whole thing I just cant wait to get my hands on fallen angelsYou know that you can mouse over/mark the blank spaces (with the cursor) to see the text right? B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2025290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 In the fallen book he is not Cypher at that time. I can however see a way he could become "Cypher". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2025294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Sangha Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I see.... to bad some of the posts have been blanked out...but then again it just adds tot he mystery of the whole thing I just cant wait to get my hands on fallen angelsYou know that you can mouse over/mark the blank spaces (with the cursor) to see the text right? ;) Wow Thanks for letting me know Brother Nihm...this changes everything!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2025611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2025633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have only read The first one in the Horus Heresy so if i read the next i may change my mind but it was just my thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2025715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshal seanisi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Just finnished reading fallen, No he is not Cypher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2026764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Can you tell us why brother marshal seanisi? Is this your belief or you read who is? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2026784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshal seanisi Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Can you tell us why brother marshal seanisi? Is this your belief or you read who is? In the book Fallen Angles it actually describes who Cypher is and where he originated from. I won't spoil the book for those who havnt read it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2027482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 how bout you hide it behind the spoiler bar just for me or pm me because i am curious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2027505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The lord cypher Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 The lord cypher in the new book is the lord cypher the current dark angles are looking for this is 1 because how he was described in the book in apperance but also the lion is a stunch teran supporter thus why only a very few were sent back with the calabans but also he was given a private mission by the lion to keep an eye on the possabilety of corruption of chaos within house after all thats said in all the little snippets of info about him the librerian wannot cotroll space and time in that way the current lord cypher though no one knows him from within the order due to the fact he is a lupas knight who practiced in cotrolling warp power but he is also a follower of lion thus would if asked by his master rase the emperor with the seed from the fabaled tree of life to bring his father back and begin the crusade again. Also luthers rants of hes comming i think is not refering to the lion but the emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2027913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurasuke Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 The lord cypher in the new book is the lord cypher the current dark angles are looking for this is 1 because how he was described in the book in apperance but also the lion is a stunch teran supporter thus why only a very few were sent back with the calabans but also he was given a private mission by the lion to keep an eye on the possabilety of corruption of chaos within house after all thats said in all the little snippets of info about him the librerian wannot cotroll space and time in that way the current lord cypher though no one knows him from within the order due to the fact he is a lupas knight who practiced in cotrolling warp power but he is also a follower of lion thus would if asked by his master rase the emperor with the seed from the fabaled tree of life to bring his father back and begin the crusade again. Also luthers rants of hes comming i think is not refering to the lion but the emperor. I think there may be a valid opinion in this wall, but I honestly can't read this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2027956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I could translate but not having read the book I'm not sure how much is fact and how much is supposition and leaps of logic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2028261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulliman's Angels Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 The lord cypher in the new book is the lord cypher...etc. etc. We could always just ask him. Lord Cypher, are you Zaherial? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2030181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Having read the book no he is definatly not Zaherial He is one of the last surviving members of the knights who had the chaos beast that the lion killed. Why he would make one of them lord cypher is beyond me. it must make sence later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2031617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Riese Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Be aware there may be partial or whole spoilers, but seeing as how all the books I mentioned have been out for a while I don't see the problem with what I have typed below. Mods feel free to shade out anything that you feel should be. Not sure what was meant by the lion being a terran supporter above, but The Lion certainly was not a supporter of the Terrans within the Dark Angels Legion. This was shown initially in Angels of Darkness with Astellan's confession to the interrogator chaplain. He explains how more and more of the Terran DA's were being shadowed by sister formations of Calibanite DA's as the crusade progressed. When we learned of this in Angels of Darkness, it was written as the confession of a Fallen Angel and therefore prone to suspicion. Now with the short story from Tales of Hersey (can't remember the name) this has been proven as fact, certainly in the Astellan situation. If this is representative of what was going on legion wide then it paints a very different picture of the DA legion than we have been lead to believe for all these years. And, also puts more credence into the name "unforgiven" for the DA and their successors. As far as Zaherial being Cypher in the present day of 40K. I am on the fence. He certainly will play a largish role in the upcoming book leading into the fall and internecine war that occurs. But will he come out of it, who knows, he may be the Garviel Loken of the DA. Then again with all the emphasis on the parallels between him and his brother and the Lion and Luther, he could in fact be the present Cypher (again current time line not Hersey). Being an outside party he could be the one cursed with fusing the legion or revealing the greatest lie of the 40K universe. Partly due to his unique (thus far) psychic gift and for the fact that the parallels have been drawn and so give him a very unique view of the strife between the Lion and Luther. My 2 and a half cents. Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/170885-zaherial-is-the-lord-cypher/#findComment-2031753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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