Antrozous Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hey, I play at two different stores in town, and I have run into two different interpretations of the Power of the Machine Spirit rule for Land Raiders. The 5th ed codex states "A Land Raider can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules of shooting." Now, if a Land Raider does not move in a turn, then it can fire everything in that following shooting phase (At least assuming that, still a bit of a Noob here). So the way the rule reads, "It can fire one more weapon than would normally be permitted" does this translate to mean that one weapon can be shot twice? For example, you have a LR crusader, it fires everything, then you use POMS to shoot the assault cannon a second time. We were discussing this during a game at one of the shops while a friend of mine was playing and using his Land Raider. The players at one shop say yes, if it does not move, and you shoot everything, POMS allows you to shoot one weapon again, that makes since to us the way it reads. However, a player at the other shop says no, it does not work like that, everything can only shoot once per turn, regardless of POMS. I'm looking for clarification as I am working in my first Land Raider and want to fully understand this rule so I can use it to it's full potential, but also not abuse it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplian Silkor Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Each weapon on a vehicle can only fire once. The POMS allows you to shoot 1 more weapon when you have moved or if your vehicle is shaken/stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banville Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yep, each weapon can only fire once as per its profile. I'm sure it's stated somewhere in the BRB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Ditto the first two responses. I had a related question come up last night. If the Raider pops smoke, can it still fire 1 weapon using PotMS? My interpretation was the smoke lets you fire 0 weapons (much like moving >6" does), and then PotMS lets you fire one more, meaning you can fire 1 weapon. Wasn't sure if this was contradicted anywhere. Sorry to thread-jack, but the first question seems to have been answered, and this seems relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Each weapon on a vehicle can only fire once. The POMS allows you to shoot 1 more weapon when you have moved or if your vehicle is shaken/stunned. No PotMS allows you to shoot one additional weapon to that normally allowed/restricted by movement/damage etc, not one more weapon as that suggests a weapon that has already fired can fire again. Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Generally it is ruled that smoke disallows any weapon from firing. Even though PotMS gives you an extra shot it doesn't help as all shooting is disallowed. This is grey area , but is how it has been played in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrozous Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Thanks for the info guys. Makes since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Generally it is ruled that smoke disallows any weapon from firing.Even though PotMS gives you an extra shot it doesn't help as all shooting is disallowed. This is grey area , but is how it has been played in the past. You're right we had a great long topic on this back a bit, a Grey Areas contender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hahahaha... gray area! Get it? 'cause it's smoke! ... sorry, couldn't resist. In all seriousness, I agree, it's probably an irresolvable contradiction in the rules. I feared as much. I personally think it makes sense to let it shoot, but I suppose the best that can be done is to discuss with an opponent, and then dice-off if an agreement isn't arrived at within a minute or two. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 *Shrugs* My LGS interpreted as you could fire, and use PotMS to fire the smoke launchers. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Para Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 *Shrugs* My LGS interpreted as you could fire, and use PotMS to fire the smoke launchers. Thoughts? PotMS specifically mentions firing one additional "weapon." Smoke Launchers aren't considered weapons but rather vehicle upgrades, so PotMS cannot fire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Generally it is ruled that smoke disallows any weapon from firing.Even though PotMS gives you an extra shot it doesn't help as all shooting is disallowed. This is grey area , but is how it has been played in the past. You're right we had a great long topic on this back a bit, a Grey Areas contender? I dont realy see it as a grey area. The rule priority goes House>errata>codex>BRB. Smoke is BRB, POTMS is codex. POTMS takes precidence. Also POTMS spirit allows you to fire in situations that dont allow to fire weapons (stuned, moved max speed) unlike tau gun drones similar rule (which can only be used if you can fire at least one weapon). The wording on Smoke is you use it, and then it dissallows shooting. POTMS then allows one shot, so you can take one shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banville Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 The exact wording is it can fire "one more weapon than would normally be permitted", so I'd say the smoke launcher question is definitely a grey area. It's pretty clear that you can't fire the same weapon twice, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 A good question is this however: can you use it by your own choice, IE use it to target a different target (as in I stay still, open up with every bar one TLLC on one tank and then use the one TLLC that didn't fire to fire at another target), not as if it's clear or anything but I've done it plenty of times with no questions asked against it but I would like to make sure it's something thats ok. And yes if you pop smokes you can fire with PotMS which is why land raiders own. The real bonus is now it's no longer BS 2 which really helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 for what it's worth, the previous thread that dealt with this topic is HERE personally, I think BRB P62 is pretty clear - "the vehicle may not fire any of its weapons" thus smoke + PotMS is still a no-fire situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 A good question is this however: can you use it by your own choice, IE use it to target a different target (as in I stay still, open up with every bar one TLLC on one tank and then use the one TLLC that didn't fire to fire at another target), not as if it's clear or anything but I've done it plenty of times with no questions asked against it but I would like to make sure it's something thats ok. The wording in PotMS specifically says that you can target a different unit with it, if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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