Nid help

[wolf lord123]

hey

 

so my regular opponent plays a crazy tyranid list. i, so far have not been able to win a game, we usually play with three objectives.

 

he usually runs around 40 genesteelers at 25 pts each, they have rending, I6, and a ton of other stuff that can rip apart whole grey hunter squads before i can even attack. not to mention he brings them in using the outflank rule and catches me by suprise every time. he also runes about 50 gaunts at str 5 in shooting and "an endless swarm" or watever its called, it makes all his gaunts come back to life, he also runs 2 zoanthrobes and 6 warriors for his synapsis thingy. he also throws in 2 carnifexes with 6 wounds toughness 7 and 2+ armour with venom cannons.

 

his tactics are usually to go all out for one objective but to keep me from getting the other two, he runs his guants in the smallest unit sizes possible so that every time i kill one squad, by the time its my turn again there is another one, and they are str 5 in shooting so they wound me on threes.

 

i usually run a lot of marines in rhinos and drop pods plus 3 dreads, 8 WGBG and a long fang squad, scouts, and a WGBL

 

i can not figure out how to beat this list any help would be appriciated.

[lunchb0x]

drop the following, add the following :

 

Drop :

 

long fangs

 

rhinos

 

drop pods

 

Add :

 

Razrobacks w. Assault Cannons/heavy bolters + storm bolter upgrade

 

Dread noughts with Assault Cannon and Twin Linked Auto Cannons

 

Wolf Lord ( with a grey hunter pack, hopefully a full 10 man help hold a point and make him mean )

 

Rune Priest ( him in a 15 man blood claw squad with SPACE STORM OF FUN on them will mess up about any infantry unit )

 

Wolf Priest ( give him a 5 man body guard and drop pod them in, all terminators, with cyclone missile launchers/heavy flamers, storm shields , hammers/lightning claws )

 

and bring lots of plasma death, and Flamer template love.

 

How are your scouts out fitted?

 

Do you take blood claws? if so how many?

 

What about bikes?

 

Take as many Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters, and templates as you can.

[wolf lord123]

i arm my scouts with two plasma pistols, and a melta gun

 

i take 13 blood claws but i just picked up 25 more.

 

the problem for me is not killing the troops but capturing the objectives without getting killed. gis endless gaunts cannot be stopped and he goes all out for one main objective that is all he needs to win

[lunchb0x]

For your scouts, drop the plasmas and go with power weapons...and how many are in the unit?

 

Let him get on the one objective then nuke 'em from orbit. Bring a whirlwind and/or vindicator...its amazing the damage they can do.

[SJumppanen]

Some of SW 'priests had ability to prevent enemy from using Infiltrate ability, but did it alsi work on "scout" units+ Or outflanking units?

[SJumppanen]

i can not figure out how to beat this list any help would be appriciated.

 

Suggestion: forget that usual stuff and just roll some dices for mission.

[CaptainSinon]

heavy flamers + heavy bolters :)

[WG Vrox]

Throw up your normal list in the army list section, we will be glad to take a look at it and help with some tactical advise.

 

WG Vrox.

[saphius]

- Carni's can't have six wounds

 

- Venom cannons suck - They can only glance you. Take vehicles.

 

His Genestealers sound like they have extended carapace. - But they can't have that, +1 attack, and scuttlers (flanking) for 25 pts. So if he doesn't have extended carapace your Grey Hunters should do fine if get some transports and drive up and rapid fire.

 

If he does that means he only has 3 attacks on the charge. Not as easy to kill, but total whirlwind bait.

 

As far as monstrouse creatures go, I find that Land raider crusaders get the job done sufficiently and still will clear genestealers like no tommorow.

 

Assault cannons would be effective against everything he runs.

 

When you fight him, pick a vital target, and focus fire. 2 monstrouse creaters with 1 wound is worse for you than 1 with 3 wounds left. Focus your fire when you do choose to shoot something big, and bring it down.

 

Don't worry about stealers quite so much if they only have 3 attacks, they can't do much damage. Rending is only to be feared in numbers. - Throwing a SS model in your squads with Runic Charms can also help if you have the points, though I usually don't do it.

 

Scouts aren't very good against nyds.

 

Dreads are great at finishing off the last wound or two on carnis, but don't get in unless you can kill them before they hit you.

 

Drop pods with Tooled out Grey Hunters work well.

 

Bloodclaws with 3 PFs are great - Especially if you stick them in a LR that he can't pen with venom cannons. (throw on Extra armor, so you can make sure you get the charge)

 

Hope some of this helps.

[ORKILL]

Scouts with sniper rifles are very effective against big bugs.

[Grey Mage]

You are bring a Rune Priest with a chooser of the Slain... right? Thatll keep the broodlords off you atleast.

 

After that, stick to cover, and keep a Wolf gaurd with a storm shield in every pack, in rhinos perferably.

 

That way if they assault you... they have to assault the transport. If it dies, then you disembark, and rapid fire the ever living heck out of them. Then they die.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

Cheap transports (ie drop pods or rhinos/razorbacks) and max out on (big) units of grey hunters and a blood claw pack with a rune priest (preferably with a chooser of the slain). Stealers hate bolters (extended carapace aside) and will have to assualt the rhinos, rather than their cargo, if they outflank you.

 

Assault cannons are also mean against bugs, so some dreads/TDA are also wise. I play quite regularly against a 'majority stealer' list, and I've not lost to him with the GH in transports/blood claw/ven dread core.

 

For example, 15 blood claws and their rune priest inspired space storm killed all 60 of his stealers and two carnifexs in about 5 rounds of combat last time we played- praise be to counter-attack! If you are struggling to hold an objective, these are your guys methinks...

 

Best of luck

[hendrik]

oh yeah, give the grey hunters hidden in their rhino a flamer, they'll be in space for him to roast them + he could fire from the top hatch should they not manage to destroy the rhino

[Maccon]

If you're having a hard time with his endless number swarms, just drop the synapse near the board edge, or kill the synapse in general. If he's not within 12 inches of any of his synapse...and zoanthropes and warriors go down fairly easily (a small brood of warriors at least, and both in CC no less) then for his bugs to do anything other than hide in cover the turn he runs on he'll have to pass leadership tests on a 5. Having them come back is all well and good, but not if they run the second they get on the board. Folding the synapse units of a tyranid army really hampers them unless they're playing nidzilla. Even genestealers at leadership 10 start to suffer when they have to make tests. It won't solve all your problems but it sounds like there's some other sound advice here too. Good luck.

[Grey Mage]

Genestealers dont take synapse though....

[Maccon]

I know they don't. I was just offering help with the endless swarms. Genestealers can use the synapse though. And while taking an enemey from fearless (the genestealers within synapse) to leadership 10 isn't a big help it can make a difference. A much bigger difference on the gaunt swarms mind you, but hey I've seen enough people roll box cars to know that every little bit helps.

[Hotspur]

My brother-in-law is an avid 'nids player, and plays a list much like the one that is/was giving you problems. He loves his genestealers and warriors.

 

Some of the most effective ways I've found, along with alot of other members on here, are weapons w/ a high rate of fire, i.e. assault cannons and heavy bolters. The more you have of these when facing any horde army, the better.

 

I also like to use plasma cannons; they're a high strength weapon that doesn't really allow any unit an armor save because of its low AP value. They drop a small template, so for bunched up groups of troops, they're great. They're even better if your enemy is trying to run a low-synapse list and is using rippers instead of gaunts. The PC has a 36" range, so it outdistances most weapons in the 'nids' arsenal w/ the exception of a couple. They also come in handy against lightly armored vehicles, or, if you can manage to get behind a tank and hit it on the rear armor, they're also pretty good.

 

I would leave the tank-busting for multi-meltas and lascannons, though.

 

If you're worried about carnifexes getting up in your face, a few shots from a lascannon will surely do the trick.

 

Try outfitting your Long Fangs squads (if you field them) like this:

 

One Squad w/ 2 HB, 2 LC, Pack Leader w/ bolter and power weapon, and frags

Other Squad w/ 2 HB, 2 PC, Pack Leader w/ bolter and power weapon, and frags

 

My brother-in-law hates these guys w/ a passion, especially when they're thrown into some solid cover.

 

Use the Fangs wisely, and they'll save you every time. Use them poorly, and they're a detriment to your whole army.

[Quillen]

Whirlwinds will probly be useless as they will be hit from behind and rended to death.

 

You want something that can move and kill on the move.

 

I would go with a LRC with an Independant heroe backing up 14 screaming blood claws with 3 power fists and a flamer. It can mangle almost anything. The heroe will whack a ton in melee and with 44 normal attacks and 9 power fist attacks on the charge that means alot of sad pandas on his side.

 

The rest should be well kitted Grey hunter packs in Rhinos. A couple of Pred destructors would do wonders too. Move to the middle of the board and push to his objective.

 

I love scouts. I truely do, but they will be pretty much useless in this fight. Too few figs and the gaunts will just keep piling on them.

 

Basicly do not play his game. Find a flaw in the way he sets up and then tear into that.

 

I would focus fire on the genestealers and warriors. Shoot fexs will miss alot, and they will get rolled with the amount of power fists we have. The gaunts will come back farther away, still......

 

So the first round move out of the charge range of the stealers from behind. Fire on the warriors and Zoas. Zoas are like termies if they have to save enough they will die. And You have what you need to do that. Once the warrior and Zoas are toast, the Genestealers will have come on one side or the other. Simple focus fire on them with the tanks and grey hunters while the Blood claws eat 1 or 2 gaunt packs a turn.

 

With the Genestealers taking heavy bolter and auto cannon fire from the preds, the gaunts starting at the edge of the board with a leadership 5, you should be fine to make a mad dash to the objectives at the end of the game. Make him measure for leadership ranges. Always! I have won some close games cause the guy was an inch out of leadership and a swarm of gaunts were just too far away.

 

Some people focus so much on the objective they lose sight of the tactics. Some ignore the ojectives and their tactics are meaningless. You have to focus on both. You win 40k by killing the right things at the right time and getting where you need to be. Movement is king. Drop pod lists can be fun, but you need rhinos and razor backs.

[DarthApoc]

As a nid-player, who is now bringing up his old 2nd ed-love, space wolves, I do feel that I have some experience with your foes.

 

Now, as a starter, if you do want a fex dead, terminators with either powerfists or thunderhammers will make short work of any carnifex, and seeing as they are for some reason equipped with Venom Cannons, he'll have a hard time blasting away more than one terminator, and that is with you actually failing a 2+ save.

 

Gaunts are useful for swarming things, yes, but remember one thing, for a gaunt to have "without number", they need to cost 8 points or less per model, and a gaunt costs 4, enhanced strength costs 2, and a fleshborer (the only weapon they have that can have str 5), costs 3 points if you have the enhanced strength.

 

So, either str 4, or not endless, can't have both now.

 

 

Genestealers, one of the most funny things to kill with an Assault Cannon, since they cannot have a better save than 4+, unless they are in cover.

 

So, bring out tanks with assault-cannons, the weapon i actually hate the most when it comes to having it on the opposing side!

 

 

Best of luck wolf-brother!

[billga]

Not a wolf player, but played a lot of 'Nids. That list has several major holes. Heavy bolters and flamers are your friend (and super cheap btw). You have got to get some transports and a couple of the autocannon Russ's you guys get. When you deploy stack everything back center on board, keeping footsloggers center between armor. Force him to approach and ignore objectives till turn 3 or 4 (shoot/shoot/counterassault works for me with BA). Get rid of Synapse and gaunts are worthless, 'stealers die real quick to loads of fire. also remember to kill to last man - WIPE OUT whole units. You can basically ignore his 'fexes 'til late game with his setup. hope this helps.

[LPetersson]

hey

 

so my regular opponent plays a crazy tyranid list. i, so far have not been able to win a game, we usually play with three objectives.

 

Then roll for mission types so he doesn't know what he'll need to do...

Sometimes you'll have more, sometimes You'll have less objectives. And if you get annihilation, You'll love the endless swarm. Endless Kill Points more likely...

 

he usually runs around 40 genesteelers at 25 pts each, they have rending, I6, and a ton of other stuff that can rip apart whole grey hunter squads before i can even attack. not to mention he brings them in using the outflank rule and catches me by suprise every time. he also runes about 50 gaunts at str 5 in shooting and "an endless swarm" or watever its called, it makes all his gaunts come back to life, he also runs 2 zoanthrobes and 6 warriors for his synapsis thingy. he also throws in 2 carnifexes with 6 wounds toughness 7 and 2+ armour with venom cannons.

 

Without claiming that he cheats, check his army list. Ask him for a copy of it next time you play so you can check that it's actually a legal list. Having said that, Genestealers are nasty in CC. Avoid it unless you get to hit first thanks to cover.

 

his tactics are usually to go all out for one objective but to keep me from getting the other two, he runs his guants in the smallest unit sizes possible so that every time i kill one squad, by the time its my turn again there is another one, and they are str 5 in shooting so they wound me on threes.

 

How quickly do they move across the table?

Or do you move forwards so you're close to the table edge he comes in from?

Maybe try and stay a bit further back so you have a couple of turns to shoot him to pieces...

 

i usually run a lot of marines in rhinos and drop pods plus 3 dreads, 8 WGBG and a long fang squad, scouts, and a WGBL

If this is in one army, then it's not a legal list. Two of those dreads are elits as are the WGBG and the Scouts.

That's 4 elite slots taken :huh:

 

When I play against the bugs, firepower is king.

I usually bring 4 or 5 LS Tornados. HB+ML kills bugs like crazy.

3 or 4 packs of GH with bolters/Plasma gun and a Sniper VenDread.

1-3 Attack Bikes if I feel I have the points left over, and I usually make sure I stay at least 18.5 inches away from the sides of the table. that way the Genestealers can't charge you on the turn they come in...

 

I usually get Razorbacks with Lascannons for each GH pack to help me take out the big bugs.

3 LC shots + Krak missile/LC shot from the VenDread usually takes down a big bug per turn...

 

If you're shooting up his gaunts and there's only one left, just leave it. It won't do much and it's better than having a whole unit come at you (Unless it's an annihilation game) while you concentrate on something else.

 

If it is an objectives game, try to go 2nd rather than first, and position your Land speeders/tanks so they can rush in and deny him objectives in the last turn if possible. Land speeders are particularly good at this if they go flat out and you get one more turn, they get shooting cover save, and are only hit on 6s in CC...

 

Normally we wolves are good at CC, but against bugs we're beaten at our own game and need to shoot them to pieces first...

[obs0l3te]

A guy I play against has a somewhat similar list...

 

I use...

 

Heavy:

Vindi (for big bugs)

LC (lots of shooty, and holds BC)

LRE (small bugs can't go wrong with that many shots)

 

14 BC w/ Priest in LC (objective holding)

 

10 Grey hunters w/ Bolters, PG, and WF w/ THSS (objective holding)

 

Ven Dread (ass Cannon) (back up objective)

 

6 Grey Hunters w/ Razor (tlHB or asscannon) 2 PP, PF MG. (Back up BC)

 

2X LS Tornados. (shooty at any bugs)

 

and a WGBL w/ pw bp. (need the extra HQ)

 

 

Target priority. thats the key!

[Brother Nathan]

As a nid player id say stay in cover. Not for the armour saves cause nids app is to high to matter but for when they assault you. Nids pretty much never take grenades so youll almost always get to strike first, coupled with counterattack etc therell be so few left to attack it wont matter.

Kill the tyrants! they provide synapes and are killers in cc and at range. Also they usually cost alot too. After thatt id say stealers. Gaunts dont get to return with without number until theyre all dead so weaken them but not kill till an appropriale time. Always check his army list and find whats going to be the biggest threat. Hold back a few grey hunter packs for he stealers, who likely have a broodlord, so when they do kill the likes of a cheap whirlwind you can throw them at them with rapid fire and flamers.

Ill stp there s i dont want the nids to get too badly mauled ( even by the sons of russ) <_<

[Valley Commando]

Depoly in a box in the middle of the table. Grey hunters at the front. Blood claws behind.

 

Kill all the small stuff turn 1

Use the vehicels to protect you flanks. Not for killing but to create traps they cant run around. You do not consolidate after killing a vehicle.

 

Power fists will mash the big nids.

 

Keep shooting and prioratise the stealers. Bolters will do the rest.

 

G.