Mathhammer str vrs av

[Joshta]

I had some better luck then normal today and i started thinking about the reality of how weapons strength effects killing armor. I typically run tons of vehicles, and weapon strength versus vehicles armor value should be important to everyone.

 

The key to killhammer is killing as much as you can, making it so you have more then your opponent, DUHHH very simple tactic. But a common missconception is trying to blow up one target with your army if there is another target available. For example if you have 3 lascannons and 3 missle launchers and your trying to take down as much as you can. If your opponent has a Land Raider try not to shoot your missle launchers at the landraider. The chance you have to actually do anything to it is extremely low, and even then the chances of you actually killing it is impossible without already beating it down. On the other side you can very easily use your lascannons to kill speeders, but missle launchers almost due the same job just as good. The big thought here is don't give up a guaranteed kills for improbable chances at killing other things.

 

I used some mathhammer and broke it down. This is the scale that shows weapon effectiveness and opposing armor value. Replace the weapon strength with X and then use the vehicle armor value Set. I put stunned and shaken as just stunned, and I call damaging hits vehicle wounds fyi. Please remember that these values do not include BS/TH/AP1 into the equations.

 

x vrs x+1

(100% become wounds)

6hits=1glance(16%)/5pen(83%)

1glance=66.6% stun/16.6imobilized/16.6wep destroyed

1pen=33%stuned/16wep destroyed/16imobilized/33destoryed

 

x vrs x+2

(84% become wounds)

6hits=1glance(16%)/4pen(66%)

1glance=66.6% stun/16.6imobilized/16.6wep destroyed

1pen=33%stuned/16wep destroyed/16imobilized/33destoryed

 

x vrs x+3

(66% become wounds)

6hits=1glance(16%)/3pen(50%)

1glance=66.6% stun/16.6imobilized/16.6wep destroyed

1pen=33%stuned/16wep destroyed/16imobilized/33destoryed

 

X vrs X+4

(50% become wounds)

6hits=1glance(16%)/2pens(33%)

1glance=66.6% stun/16.6imobilized/16.6wep destroyed

1pen=33%stuned/16wep destroyed/16imobilized/33destoryed

 

str x vrs x+5

(33% become wounds)

6hits=1glance(16%)/1pen(16%)

1glance=66.6% stun/16.6imobilized/16.6wep destroyed

1pen=33%stuned/16wep destroyed/16imobilized/33destoryed

 

str X vrs X+6

(16% become wounds)

6hits=1glance(16%)

1glance=66.6% stun/16.6imobilized/16.6wep destroyed

1pen=33%stuned/16wep destroyed/16imobilized/33destoryed

 

 

BS -Chance to Hit

5-83%

4-66%

3-50%

2-33%

[Warp Angel]

Nice reference tool.

 

You might want to add a subtopic that says "tool for calculating success" to make it more clear to browsers what the article is. I'm probably going to refer back to this in other articles at some point.

[minigun762]

What this confirms even more for me is that, its rarely a good idea to shoot a weapon at a AV target if you're only able to glance it (Krak Missiles + Land Raider).

Sure its better then nothing, but its a poor use of limited resources.

 

Personally I tend to put the yardstick at AV12, since that is higher/equal to most transports and walkers in the game and anything higher then that usually needs a Melta weapon to be reliably knocked out.

Since S7 is the lowest S able to penetrate AV12, I personally consider S7 the low end of the "anti-tank" weaponry.

(note this is not counting fancy abilities like Rending)

[greatcrusade08]

i notice you are only talking single weapons/shots, a group of rending S3 snipers (S3 against mech) can usually cause pen hits on AV11 rhinos just through massed fire.

 

Ive never been one for mathhammer, i tend to use actual experience and gut instinct, and i always say you cant apply maths to a completely random number generator (dice)

 

Anyway enough of me

10 snipers at BS3 = 5 hits

Out of 5 hits you have a 5/6 chance of causing a rend, that gives you S9 + D3 rend

 

From the rend you have

33% chance of scoring 1 which is S10 and is a failed hit.

33% chance of scoring 2 which is S11 and a glance

33% chance of scoring 3 which is S12 and a penetrating hit.

 

Sometimes a glance can be useful if theres no other target, you can immobilise and destroy weapons, an AV1 weapon like a MM if fired at long range (no extra pen dice) can still kill a LR due to the AV1 +1 on pen table.

Massed fire can be good against rear/side armour, a unit of bolter armed tac marines can almost gaurantee to glance a transport a few times.

 

Like i said i dont do mathhammer, in my last game i shot a LSS with MM at a monolith hoping to glance, and lo and behold i rolled to hit, then rolled a 6 for damage (single dice due to living metal), then rolled a 6 on the pen table, whihc wrecked it due to AV1 bonus.

I had a 1 in 72 chance and i pulled it off, i know its not proof that mathhammer is useless, but it goes to show that sometimes luck favours the brave.

 

Anyway if you ignore the anti-mathammer comments you will probably see wome interesting points here.

 

GC08

[Joshta]

Ive never been one for mathhammer, i tend to use actual experience and gut instinct, and i always say you cant apply maths to a completely random number generator (dice)

 

Ya what a lot of people don't understand is that if u have a 1/6 chance of doing something, and you have 6 shots, it doesn't mean you have 1 hit. You still have 16.6% chance and 6 attempts at that.

 

BUT to disagree with you, weather you choose to use math or not it is still in the game. Gut instincts and experience are great references to look back to, but those tools are always used best when combined with mathhammer. Movement+Math=Game

 

 

Nice reference tool.

 

You might want to add a subtopic that says "tool for calculating success" to make it more clear to browsers what the article is. I'm probably going to refer back to this in other articles at some point.

 

Great Idea. BTW The work that you do in making tactica guides is incredibly good, and i know just reading them made me a better player.

 

 

 

What this confirms even more for me is that, its rarely a good idea to shoot a weapon at a AV target if you're only able to glance it (Krak Missiles + Land Raider).

Sure its better then nothing, but its a poor use of limited resources.

 

FOR SURE, this is a double edged sword as well. If you understand that a missle launcher doesn't have a good shoot at beating down a AV14, then you can also be more aggressive in exposing your armor to the other teams anti tank! Knowing the real chances can save lives!

*disclaimer- Joshta doesn't addvise in exposing any tank to any form of anti tank unless absolutely nessacary to the overall strategy.*

 

One last thing this post of mathhammer shows is the real value of high str weapons!understanding that the one lascannon in the dev squad might not be that bad!

[minigun762]

One last thing this post of mathhammer shows is the real value of high str weapons!understanding that the one lascannon in the dev squad might not be that bad!

Especially with those Loyalists and their hax BS5 wargear. :P

[Joshta]

One last thing this post of mathhammer shows is the real value of high str weapons!understanding that the one lascannon in the dev squad might not be that bad!

Especially with those Loyalists and their hax BS5 wargear. :P

YA Not to get on a tangent! BUT WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT! seriously 35pts for a bs5 str9 ap2 is unbelievably awesome!(IMO)

[minigun762]

One last thing this post of mathhammer shows is the real value of high str weapons!understanding that the one lascannon in the dev squad might not be that bad!

Especially with those Loyalists and their hax BS5 wargear. :lol:

YA Not to get on a tangent! BUT WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT! seriously 35pts for a bs5 str9 ap2 is unbelievably awesome!(IMO)

 

I assume it makes up for Chaos having access to walking LasCannons strapped to Terminators (Obliterators).