Auto vs Assault cannon on Dread

[ExarPucc]

I'm sitting here writing up a FW order for GD:C and I was planning on buying a pair of auto-cannons for one of my various AoBR dreads and was just curious as to what you guys thought between the two guns.

 

Auto cannons are great because they're twin-linked, 48 inch range, and glance AV 11 on 4's. With a double AC dread you're pumping out 4 shots a turn from a melta safe distance.

 

Assault cannons are great because rending negates and armor save that a unit might be getting. And given the four shots a turn it gets, you'll miss 1.33 of them on any given round. Rending also lets them punch holes into AV14, but they have less of a chance against AV11. Also the 24 inch range makes it more mandatory to take a DCCW in case you're forced into close up assault. And melta is more likely to pop it from the front given the proximity you must get to to use the cannon.

 

Choices choices choices...

[Master Melta]

Those are my two load outs when I have upgrade points for the dread.

 

Assault is great vs infantry and rear armor. Storm Bolter adds a couple shots, and then the DDCW keeps folks honest. For 115 it's a great buy if you know you are going to fight lots of infantry.

 

Auto Cannons should be taken on both arms. It is a bit more expensive, but like you said great for long range dakka, whether against troops or light vehicles.

 

 

The Assault load out is more flexible but increases risk as well. You keep the DDCW, so you want to be close to the enemy, just stay away from hidden power claws...

 

The Auto Cannon load out is basically a Devistator squad with an AV value with lower STR guns..

 

It's about the role you want them to play. I don't think either is necessarily superior.

[Brother Icipher]

It all depends on what you are planning to shoot at with them. If you are worried about light armoured vehicles, then the two sets of AutoCs is probably a good bet. If you want to hose infantry up close, and then attack in CC, the AssaultC (+PF w/H.Flamer) is better.

 

The key issues are:

• What do you want to kill with it?
  
• How far away do you want to be when you do it?
  

[Gaz1858]

Of the two i would choose the Assault cannon for the reason of more shots and Rending ablility which negates in my view the +1 strength on the Autocannon.

 

Like Brother Icipher says though it depends on what you want it to do. I like my dreads to eventyally get in combat so the extra range is negated. All my dreads carry a powerfist and either lascannon or assault cannon.

[minigun762]

Going to have to agree with the rest of the group. Its two different loadouts for two different roles.

Twin AutoCannons make for a great transport buster (which is important in a game that is more and more mechanized). 4 TL shots @ 48" means you'll likely bust a typical transport each turn. Backed up by a Tactical squad with a Missile Launcher and Plasma and you have a good combination to open up a Rhino and burn down the troops inside afterward.

 

The Assault Cannon is still a key weapon at close range against anything. 4 shots and Rending mean that you can target Ork Boyz or a Land Raider and its not wasted.

 

The drawback is the short range and openess for a counter-assault but Drop Pods and a DCCW help mitigate both those.

[Captain Idaho]

I just can't justify losing the Dread CCW just for 2 AP4 attacks. Most games the threat potential of a S10 ignores cover saves model that is all but imperious to most CC attacks is worth just as much to a player as the actual kill out put it actually does.

 

And if you really want an dual weapon Dread, why not try an Assault Cannon/Autocannon combo? It's the same points as the quad Autocannon version and gives you 6 shots that wound T4 on a 2+. I actually just though of this combo myself, and I is pretty good I reckon!

[minigun762]

I just can't justify losing the Dread CCW just for 2 AP4 attacks. Most games the threat potential of a S10 ignores cover saves model that is all but imperious to most CC attacks is worth just as much to a player as the actual kill out put it actually does.

 

And if you really want an dual weapon Dread, why not try an Assault Cannon/Autocannon combo? It's the same points as the quad Autocannon version and gives you 6 shots that wound T4 on a 2+. I actually just though of this combo myself, and I is pretty good I reckon!

 

The drawback here is the range difference.

Its basically the same as the whole "Hellfire" model with Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher.

Very all purpose, but the 24" difference in range makes it harder to use.

 

If you wanted something like that, I'd go with a Plasma Cannon/Missile Launcher variant. Closer max ranges and the weapons match up well enough (S7/S8 = decent anti-tank and up to 2 blast markers)

[Brother Icipher]

If you're planning to go up close, you're probably better off using an Ironclad with Hurricane bolters and a PF, as you will be able to dakka the little stuff and bash armoured targets in CC, and will live longer due to having AV13. I would probably only use the regular dread for long ranged shooting, either with 2x TL Autocannon, or TL Lascannon and ML.

[DerekLee688]

I've used a TL Bolter/auto-cannon before for MEQ killing. The ranges add up a little better, but it was in a game where that was the only thing that a Lascannon devistatior had to shoot at and ended up destroying one of his weapons.

 

Again, when building an army, it's not a good idea to have only one thing with vehicle armor, land raider being the exception. This shouldn't be a problem since genraly you have mechinised infantry anyway.

[chapter master 454]

personally I use only the weapons we are given, so I ether go with a hellfire (which while theres a big difference, I use it as a gun line backing so that when they hit 24" they better of hit that bubble running or it's pain time), mortis (I think it's called, TLLC and ML) and the standard version (AsC and DCCW w/ SB or HF, depending on what I want). Auto cannons are becoming more common in marine options (the addition of them to dreads is a big plus for them) and are great light armour busters. Depends on what range your aiming for, you want to plaster your foe at range take the auto cannon but if it's going to be upfield anyway take assault cannon.

[Brother Icipher]

mortis (I think it's called, TLLC and ML)

 

Nope. The Mortis patten dreadnought is one with the same guns on both arms. In one of the IA books (don't know which one), there were rules for them for the Dark Angels, who are the only Chapter that (traditionally) uses them. Of course, with the 5e Codex anyone who want to have one can put Autocannons on both arms and have a Mortis of their very own, by the Dark Angels can't! :cuss

[Marlow]

I prefer the Assault Cannon & Fist or Plasma Cannon & Fist for my Dreads. The Autocannon is only a fraction better at dealing with light armour so the only time I have used it is on my Gun Dread which is Plasma Cannon/Autocannon, that gives a nice 36" range (to use both) and can still be a threat to troops.

[Escaflowne]

I usually give it a Multi-melta, a Heavy flamer, extra armor, and look for the biggest, nastiest, toughest thing the other guy has got.

 

I may ultimately lose the dread, but it's usually made it's points back and put the hurt on my opponent's super units.

[Kronk]

For a close combat dread, I go assault cannon and the CCW with storm bolter (and extra armor. Always extra armor). Cheap and effective. Especially in my Black Templar army. The whole point behind this set up is troop killing, and possibly terminator killing (with rending). I want to take out as many troop as I can with it. Either with the CCW, or with the 4 assault cannon shots and 2 stormbolter shots. If I had a heavy flamer arm, I'd try it out against Tau grunts and IG. Stuff with T3 and horrible armor saves, but that's a conversation for another thread.

 

For fire support, I go Venerable, TLLC and ML, extra armor, with Tank Hunter (Again, Black Templars). If you're going to dump points in a gun, do whatever you can to make it stick around for a while. IMHO, that's worth a bit more than a TriLas predator, as you can still move a walker and shoot everything. And, it has arguably more survivability.

[Race Bannon]

Autocannon, because the FW arm looks dingdang great AND I'm one of the few players who *can* use that upgrade due to WYSIWYG.

 

Magnets are your friend ^_^

 

But competitively ... Assault Cannon.

[DarkGuard]

I like using a TL-lascannon, and heavy flamer. Give the Dread all round anti-troop and anti-vehicle capability. It normally sits back and snipes tanks, and will close in on any unit coming in close and assault them after firing the heavy flamer. I've found it quite effective, blowing off weapons on other tanks and even running down a Chaos Terminator Squad in close combat.

[Stanley Tweedle]

Shooty dreads' main advantage is that they kill at distance and help to control your home objective marker (s). Its not the best choice to deny them their dreadnought CCW; I usually use them with heavy flamer + Plasma cannon.

[Grey Mage]

I say Hvy Flamer backing up an assault cannon- you can penetrate armor 14, you can deal with hordes, and you have the shots to reliably chew through a light tank each turn. The range is a little short, but I use dreadnaughts to either defend a particular area or to cover an assault that they in turn are a part of. If you want long range sniping Id rather have a Predator- more guns, range is just as good eh?

 

Oh, and whenever possible- venerable. That rerolling on the damage table, especially when coupled with extra armor has made my Vendread the bane of the segementum obscurus.

[Brother Icipher]

Oh, and whenever possible- venerable. That rerolling on the damage table, especially when coupled with extra armor has made my Vendread the bane of the segementum obscurus.

 

Is that with the old SW Codex, or the current Ultramarine one? I think the cost of upgrading to Venerable is prohibitively expensive in the smurf codex. By the time you make it Ven., upgrade to a heavy flamer, and put some guns on it, you're pushing 200pts for an AV12 model. I'd rather have two cheap ones.

[Stanley Tweedle]

I say Hvy Flamer backing up an assault cannon- you can penetrate armor 14, you can deal with hordes, and you have the shots to reliably chew through a light tank each turn. The range is a little short, but I use dreadnaughts to either defend a particular area or to cover an assault that they in turn are a part of. If you want long range sniping Id rather have a Predator- more guns, range is just as good eh?

 

Oh, and whenever possible- venerable. That rerolling on the damage table, especially when coupled with extra armor has made my Vendread the bane of the segementum obscurus.

 

Vanilla vendreads are way too expensive these days :) Asscannon has a very low chance to penetrate 12+ armour since the rending rule was nerfed. And its only ap4. And its only 24". And it costs as an airplane now (in vanilla dex), so whats the point?