Hackbar Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I'll admit it straight out, I'm reaching here because I have yet to play a real game of 40k (aside from the Macragge starter set) and I just think the auxilliary grenade launcher is a cool weapon I would have loved to see available to more units. (Sternguard, Command Squad, Vet sergeants even) From every codex review and tactica I've been able to find I gather that the consensus on the Aux. Grenade Launcher is that it is an overpriced weapon availble only to overpriced troops, with the possible exception of the SM Captain. This is probably true, but I want to discuss them anyway and get some feedback. This naturally brings us to discussion of the Honor Guard as a whole, since they're the only unit that can take the AGL. My basic question is this: can a small unit of Honor Guard with grenade launchers (accompanied by a similarly-armed Chapter Master) make up their cost in sheer versatility and short-ranged firepower? After all, on paper they put out pretty impressive fire per model within rapid-fire range while reatining a 2+ armor save for survivability and a bolt pistol+Power Weapon each for melee. I imagine the champion could make opponents reluctant to send an attatched IC in to clear them out, but conversely they seem like they would really foul up anything short of a very solid melee specialist charging them. I imagine if they were troops or scoring units the Honor Guard would be awesome. After, all, they could sit in cover on an objective all day and lay down rapid fire and a boatload of templates (or krak shots against some armored foes) on anyone venturing up to remove them. If all else fails and it comes to assault, a bad difficult terrain roll for the enemy will mean the honor guard+ chapter master would get the charge for something like 25+ power weapon attacks. Even on a good roll for the enemy, the guard are getting 3 attacks each (2 base attacks plus a bonus for bolt pistol and power weapon, right?) and have a 2+ armor save, and whoever is charging them just walked through the above-mentioned torrent of fire. So with this in mind, is there a circumstance where such a unit wouls actually be statistically likely to earn their points back, or would I be spending time, money, and points on a good-looking but utterly wasteful HQ choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I think the issue here would be the fact that Honour Guard are first and foremost a combat unit, hence the power weapons. To be honest I think Honour guard tooled with 'Nade Launchers wouldn't get their points back, people can just avoid it and if that unit is with a CM...thats a lot of points you want to get stuck in with. Though I have to admit, the image is cool :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackbar Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 I think the issue here would be the fact that Honour Guard are first and foremost a combat unit, hence the power weapons. To be honest I think Honour guard tooled with 'Nade Launchers wouldn't get their points back, people can just avoid it and if that unit is with a CM...thats a lot of points you want to get stuck in with. Though I have to admit, the image is cool :sick: Well while we're on the subject of cool images, I was just thinking of a minimum-strength honor guard with grenade launchers in a rhino driving around pouring rapid fire and templates out the 2-man firing port. Pretty expensive for a hit-and-run unit shooting that is pretty much dead meat if they loose their transport, artificer armor and power weapons notwithstanding, but I can't help thinking that grenade launcher is just too cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry T Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Errrm Auxiliary grenade launcher isn't rapid fire and only has a 12" range so is a pretty ineffective shooting unit. I believe you are getting the Axillary Grenade Launcher, available to HG and characters, mixed up with the Astartes Grenade Launcher available only to scout bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 It's a tough one really. I have used Honour Guard extensively since 4th edition, and the 5th edition version makes them very powerful in close combat. Adding 15pts to the basic cost of each model is getting pretty expensive though. I would love to see a unit like that used, but at 50pts a model is it really worth it? I am dubious. That sort of unit screams out to me as a Drop Pod attack, unleashing bolters and Aux. grenade launchers on an enemy unit. Of course to get that to work I would reccomend supporting them with 2 more full Tacticals squads in Drop Pods all on the 1st turn to maximise the bodies hitting opponents in a single turn, which means you need 5 Drop Pods in total. This would be a specialised unit. Not sure if it can work, but it could surprise meta gamers with it's effectieness. After all, they can unleash alot of firepower in a single turn and any counter attack will be hard put again 20 Tactical Marines and the Honour Guard. Try it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackbar Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Errrm Auxiliary grenade launcher isn't rapid fire and only has a 12" range so is a pretty ineffective shooting unit. I believe you are getting the Axillary Grenade Launcher, available to HG and characters, mixed up with the Astartes Grenade Launcher available only to scout bikes. I understand this. If I'm reading everything correctly, the aux grenade launcher can be fired in addition to any other weapons a model fires each turn, and bolter Rapid Fire has a range of 12" same as the launcher. Thus, a unit within rapid fire range is also within grenade range and my fire both. Since the launcher is an assualt weapon and rapid fire can be used after moving, the unit would have full fire-on-the-move capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The auxillery grenade launcher is assault 1, meaning it can only shoot once per turn.. Im not sure where the rapid fire confusion is coming from? A model can ony fire a single ballistic weapon per turn, unless its a MC GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Oh greatcrusade08, shame on you! Aux Grenade launchers are able to be fired in addition to the models other shooting attack. So rapid firing bolters plus the launchers can generate a substantial amount of firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 oooh quick someone spare my blushes, explain that one for me, i though the 1 mini; 1 shoting attack applied as a base rule... does the AGL have an overriding special rule... if so what page in the codex? GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Wargear page, first section. Page 97. I would suggest for your Captain on a Bike taking an Aux Grenade launcher and Hell fire rounds, as you get 3 shots a turn on that relentless model :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackbar Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Wargear page, first section. Page 97. I would suggest for your Captain on a Bike taking an Aux Grenade launcher and Hell fire rounds, as you get 3 shots a turn on that relentless model :P Since you brought that up, does a captain who takes a bike and hellfire rounds get to use his hellfire rounds in the bike's twin-linked bolter? It makes sense, and it would certainly be powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Yup, it specifically says so on p. 100 of the SM Codex under "Hellfire Rounds". Bike captains should never leave home without Hellfire Rounds; an Aux Grenade Launcher is nice to add if you have another 15 points. That's basically 3 shots with 12" range that will hit on 2+ and usually wound on 2+, AND you can still assault afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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