ASDF_ Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hey Guys, I play White Scars. I'm a little new to the game, but I've gotten down what my army can do, and i've played a bit of games. I have won some, but also lost some, but I don't have a solid strategic plan. I wanted to ask you guys if you have any strategy with biker lists that you have found successful, preferably for all mission types, but in general is fine. At the club that I play at, most people play SM's of a variety of chapters, and then there are a handful of ork and eldar play, and a couple necron players as well. There are some other armies, but there's only if anything 1 person playing them. I'm the only one who plays a biker army, but someone is starting an ork biker list. Anyway, here's my list: Khan: 205 -Moondrakken Chaplain on Bike: 135 -Bike Command Squad on Bikes: 395 -Company Champion with Power Fist, Meltagun, Storm Shield, and Melta bombs -3 Vets with Lightning Claws, Meltaguns, and Storm Shields -Apothecary with Narthecium Bike Squad (8): 315 -Sergeant with Power Fist and Melta bombs -2 Meltaguns -1 MM AB Bike Squad (8): 285 -Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta bombs -2 Flamers -1 HB AB Scout Bike Squad (5): 155 -Sergeant with power weapon -2 grenade launchers -Cluster Mines 1 Land Speeder Tornado: 100 -Multi-Melta -Assault Cannon 1 Land Speeder Tornado: 100 -Multi-Melta -Assault Cannon Points: 1695 I realize that the Command Squad and 2 Land Speeders are a bit over priced, but I find them to pack a pretty good punch, especially the Command Squad, which really hasn't ended up dying, just losing a couple guys maybe. I attach Khan and my Chaplain to the Command Squad, and I'm also probably going to get a converted Libby on a Bike as well, so I can decide if I need the Chappy for killy-ness, or the Libby against Seer Council, or any hard-hitting invul save squads that I can nullify. Any suggestions on strategy would be greatly appreciated, as I can't really find a good, affective way to play this army. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brgerkng Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 First some list comments: Instead of the full bike squads (and using as combat squads) them try them smaller. I like to run 2 different setups, 5 bikes with 2 meltas and a MM attack bike, and 6 bikes with 2 plasma. It allows you to hide better, gives you more special weapons, and if a squad gets caught in assault its not as bad. I'm not crazy about power weapons or fists in bike squads, but having a fist in a squad can be useful if you get caught by walkers or monstrous creatures. For your fast attack slots I would consider attack bike squads. Specifically squads of 2 or 3 MM attack bikes so you can take out heavy stuff. I like scout bikes on paper, but I like the attack bikes so much I don't use other things in the slots. I have yet to use Khan or a command squad on bikes so I can't comment much on them. I would consider mixing in non-bike units. I know the all-bike theme is cool, but you shouldn't ignore the flexibility other units offer. In my 1850 list I tend to add to my bikes a tactical squad in a rhino and a medium sized assault squad with a chaplain. The tac squad gives me some numbers and allows me to hold stuff. The assault squad serves as a counter charge unit. Both do well and fit in with the idea of "rapid assault" that I feel fits the White Scars. Strategy stuff: If you have choice for setting up, I like to chose to go second. See how the other person deploys and place stuff where it won't get as shot up first turn and so you can move in to start shooting. I've only started to do it recently, but its not a bad idea to start with everything in reserves if there's no real good deployment options for you. You can get a first turn of shooting, and there's less turns for your stuff to get shot at. With your movement you should be able to keep things on your terms. Try to limit what return fire you will take. Take out the biggest threats first. Avoid anything that you can't deal with or don't need to deal with. and BTW, good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 All in all it is a good list but there are a few things that you don't really need. I will get into that here in a bit, but we should talk about tactics first. You seem to have your unit roles pretty well realized. In this list it seems the most of your tactics are going to be centralized around your Heavy Hitter unit. Keeping your lines constantly moving and exploiting any openings you can find. Terrain is your biggest problem. Though you can move your bikes through just about anything (and I do mean anything) you will screw up some of your Terrain Test Roles. Also, all your opponent needs to do to hold you at bay is either keep their units or deploy their objectives on the second floor of ruins or buildings. I use to play a solid 100% bike list until this happened to me. I really suggest you invest in even a cheap-o tactical squad to serve as a defender and an objective holder. Your heavy hitters are going to be a big fire magnates UNTIL they enter close combat. This will allow your opponent you then spread their fire from things like tanks that haven't been engaged by anything to fire on your Land Speeders or other bike units. I know it may not seem like a big deal at first glance but you might find yourself stumped by a turtled army. Your Land Speeders will make a GREAT heavy support addition to your Bikes, but I also suggest adding something like a Vindicator or, my current favorite support unit, a Thunderfire Cannon. The big templates will help you soften up enemy squads before closing in with your bikes to Rapid Fire and then possibly assault. On to your list: Khan: Since you're taking a Command Squad you might as well keep him around for the extra punch. Chaplain: Another well suited unit to pair up with a Command Squad OR teaming him up with one of your other bike units for more punch. Command Squad: At 395 you are HUGELY overpricing this unit. Most importantly your sorta messing up your Champion. This is something we have talked about at length at my store as well as here on these forums but the opinion is that taking a Champion counts as an Upgrade. At this point you can't take any other kit on your Champ, for 15 points you get a power weapon and combat shield nothing else as he no longer counts as a Veteran. You are also missing out on varying your Command Squads load out to make the best use of Wound Allocation. That way you can hold on to each model a bit longer is the worst of all possible situations. Here is what I use to run: Biker Command Squad: Champion Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer Storm Shield/Power Sword Storm Shield/Lightning Claws Apothecary Total: 325 points This is a BEAST of a unit even without the extra shooting from adding meltaguns, Khan, or the Chappy. Sadly even this load out is not overly cost effective in the long run as the best way to keep away from it is to hide in cover or on the second floor of a set of ruins. Your 395 point Command Squad with your 135 point Chaplain might be better invested in just taking a Land Raider and a unit of Assault Terminators. I know this doesn't sound as cool but every game I have played testing the Terminators vs the Command Squad I have killed more and lasted longer with the Terminators. Bike Squad A: I completely disagree with brgerkng. Keep your Bike units at the max unit size to make great use of their volume of fire. I liken taking 5 Bikes to taking only a 5 man Tactical Squad (not combat squading but just 5 marines) you miss out on some extra attacks and extra durability that might just mean the difference. Give it a shot of course as you are your own general, but I really thought I would mention it. Also with the Power Fist and all of the Melta Weapons you really really don't need Melta Bombs. Thats 5 more points you can hold onto. Bike Squad B: Here again you don't need Melta Bombs since you should really don't want to be assaulting armor with this unit if you don't have too. Instead I suggest buying up a MultiMelta on your Attack Bike to add the extra punch against armor and also MCs. Seems silly I know, but you might find it worth while. Scout Bike Squad: The strength of the Scout Bike Squad is really from the ability to get the drop on armor or elite units in the first turn. This being the case you might want to think about buying up a Power Fist for your Sergeant. This will help you hit harder against rear armor and such. Land Speeders: Nothing but good things to say about these guys except that you might consider changing one of them over to a Typhoon. The missile launchers have tons of utility that might better support your forward units. Tactics are simple really but when it comes down to it you need to know how to operate without an overall plan. Keep yourself as fluid as possible in both your deployments and target selection. I recommend reading up on Warp Angel's target priority article. I hope I have helped out a bit. I know I rambled on for quite a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASDF_ Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hey guys, thanks for all the good advice. I do have some other units that I sometimes play with, but I never really get to use them because of the small games I play at my club. But, they are: Tactical Squad (10): 205 -Sergeant with Chainsword and Boltpistol -Flamer -Missile Launcher -Rhino Tactical Squad (10): 205 -Sergeant with Chainsword and Boltpistol -Flamer -Missile Launcher -Rhino Scout Squad (5): 97 -4 Sniper Rifles -4 Camo Cloaks -Heavy Bolter Assault Squad (10): 220 -Sergeant with Power Weapon and Combat Shield -Flamer Assault Terminators (5): 465 -Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields -Land Raider with Extra Armor I have been able to use some of this stuff, but mostly I use the list I put up before. Everything is mobile in my army except for my Scouts who I just plop on top of a building, and on the board I play with, they can mostly shoot almost anyone with the 36'' range. Besides them, everything can move at least 12''. But I have been looking at Fritz' videos on YouTube, a guy who plays a Saim-Hann Eldar Army (All Jetbikes and Skimmer Tanks), and his screen name is WayOfSaimHann. It seems like the tactics with the eldar would also work with my marines, even though there are some slight differences. I'm not necessarily sure if I'll get smaller bike squads, as I like having the security of a big, maxed out squad, but I havn't necessarily gotten to combat squad them yet, so I'll try that out and see how I like them. As for the Command Squad, many people have said it's a bad idea, but I got this off of Yes The Truth Hurts, an online blog, and he seemed to know what he was talking about. He also upgraded the champ, so I'm not sure about that, but everyone down at my club is ok with the upgraded champ and agree's that it's legal, so I may stick with it ;) but maybe not. Thanks though for all the help, and I may think about some attack bikes, if I can squeeze them into my army transport case :D Thanks again though for the strategy and army list advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You have a great mix of extra units you could swap in and swap out at your leisure to try to find the right balance for our play style. The real crux of a Eldar Jet Bike army as opposed to a Space Marine Bike army is that the Eldar are on Jet Bikes. The 5th Edition rules are different for the two as well as the fact they can fly up building floors and go into windows. Plus Jet Bikes will be rolling far less Dangerous Terrain Tests in a single game. Both kinds of bikes make for poor defender units but really that is okay since the major idea is to keep as mobile as possible and strike strike strike. There are always at least two options to win every game in 5th Edition. Either take and hold objectives or kill all of your opponent's units. This is probably how you are going to deal with most game you end up playing, going for pure body count. As for the champ, it was tossed right out at my GW store but if you can play it legal then you should go for it! That unit is still a very expensive beat stick where for only 50 points more you could be running a basic Land Raider with Terminators. I can tell you with out a doubt that your Command Squad is going to take names, but you really should vary the equipment on each biker. The wound allocation rules in 5th allow for some major loop holes which make a Command Squad SUPER survivable. Be that as it may, you are the General and you already seem to have a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshta Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Just one LR can change the game so much. Your army could be based around the hard hitting land raider and everything else is just an extension and a supporting unit. Also a LR w/ Termies will give you something to deal with nob bikers, which the majority of your army isn't going to be able to do anything in cc. AND Because of the bikers speed you will be getting charged by nob bikers. But Theme armies are awesome! btw every time i am asked a question its answer is normally ADD ANOTHER LAND RAIDER WITH TERMIES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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