Thunder Hammers vs Powerfists

[Jonny Wolf]

Brothers,

I know what the differences are (TH gives you crew shaken and reduces enemy attacks to Init 1), but are they worth the extra cost. Have TH's been worth the points or are Power Fist sufficient?

 

Thanks for the counsel,

 

Jonny

[Hfran Morkai]

Well, I love thunder hammers for pure awesomeness, but from a game point I tend to use powerfists apart from on my termies with storm shields as that would look stupid. However in my more recent list I have a load of points left over and will probably use the thunder hammers to make my guy more likely survive the next turn.

[Ryzouken]

Generally, the extra points for the thunder hammer aren't really worth it. The added ability gained from those points only applies if you didn't kill what you hit, a form of planning for failure in my mind, and therefore of limited utility.

 

For aesthetics, they're totally worth it. Huge ass hammer? Sign me up!

[Brother Grius]

I have actually never gotten any extra usefulness out of a thunder hammer where a power fist would have been equally useful. I wounded your T4 Marine commander? He's dead outright. I charged your vehicle? If I didn't at least get a Crew Shaken already, I must have charged it with the wrong unit. The hammers are cool, and I like a neat lookin' model with a big hammer, but they've never been better than a power fist for me.

[KeithGatchalian]

I prefer the thunder hammer.

 

A group of models charges into something big and killy, like a bloodthirster or avatar etc. If the hammer is still alive after the first round of combat and he hits the bloodthirster, then he will still get to attack the second round. A power fist might not.

 

A group of wolf scouts with a WGPL with a power fist charges a leman russ. They do nothing to the tank, it turns around and shoots them to death.

 

Give that Pack Leader a TH, and now it is guaranteed not to shoot, as long as you hit it, so you get a second chance to kill it.

[WG Vrox]

Thunder Hammer is my choice for my HQs coupled with a Storm Sheild is the best CC combo in the game.

 

Few examples for ya..

 

For whatever reason you attack with a power fist and only hit on a 6 lets say you roll 1 6 and it's a penetration hit for which you roll weapon destroyed. Great but now that vehcial can move away from you turn and fire at you or the squad. For 5 more points you could have also stunned that vehical allowing you to no only negate its moving/shooting phase but provide you a Auto hit on the next turn.

 

Let's talk Dreads, reducing the number of attacks by 1 is no small thing when considering the damage potential a dread can do in combat. If you are in CC with a Dread that 5 points becomes nominal.

 

 

But let's talk turkey here, where the TH pays for itself is getting your attacks off on that second round of combat against that Carnifex, bloodletter, Nurgle prince, Avatar, Hive Tyrant, basically anyhing with a T of 5+ with multi wounds means not only do your troops get to strike first at I4 but you ensure you get your attacks in regardless of the outcome.

 

And finally to me that Thunder Hammer is just a much better looking weapon on the battlefield, which it in itself is worth 5 points for the fear factor alone.

 

WG Vrox.

[Lord Rao]

And, most importantly, thunder hammers are called that for a reason .. they go BOOM! when they hit something.

Easily worth those 5 extra pts.

[lunchb0x]

And finally to me that Thunder Hammer is just a much better looking weapon on the battlefield, which it in itself is worth 5 points for the fear factor alone.

 

WG Vrox.

 

 

Since when did Space Wolves have fashion shows on the battlefield? We arent Dark Angels!! We dont worry if our murse matches our dress...I mean...our book matches our robes. :)

[WG Vrox]

Since when did Space Wolves have fashion shows on the battlefield? We arent Dark Angels!! We dont worry if our murse matches our dress...I mean...our book matches our robes.

--------------------

 

Sir, to inspire fear and dread on the battlefield is a very viable and real tactic in warfare. War paint and wardress such as uniforms do server a purpose.

 

When a 1000 troops made up of rag tag men see 1000 troops dressed in the same uniform marching toward them in military order, I assure you it has an affect on their psyche.

 

Now agreed we may not go into battle with fancy dress such as robes and cords of gold dangling about, but I am very much about wolf fur and wolf talismans to distract and discourage our enemies, when they are trying to decide who to attack the 10 Grey Hunters or the crazy Wolf Lord with the Thunder Hammer, for some reason they always pick the Grey Hunters, leaving my HQ free to swing away at I-1, I don't know why but thats the truth of it 8 times out of 10.

 

WG Vrox.

[lunchb0x]

BEST RETORT EVER!!!! :lol:

[Ryzouken]

Why would you ever charge a big killy unit like a Carnifex, Bloodthirster, or Avatar if you could possibly help it? Maybe if it had a single wound left, I'd charge it, but if there's even a glimmer of a chance the beastie will survive the statistical average result of your charging it, why charge it in the first place? You're playing right into their hands, as these critters are fairly useless if they don't see combat, why give them a use?

 

Again, my premise regarding Thunder Hammers is: if you grab one you're either planning for failure or grabbing something that looks spiffy for 5 pts. The former is discouraged in designing efficient lists, the latter is also (but fine for the fluff oriented gamer or those who just really like the look of hammers). Tactically, not worth it.

[LPetersson]

Why would you ever charge a big killy unit like a Carnifex, Bloodthirster, or Avatar if you could possibly help it?

 

Because I can :D

No, seriously, if the critter survives, then it's a turn I won't get shot at... and it's unlikely to survive round two which leaves me free to charge whatever is dumb enough to be nearby in the next turn... ;)

Having said that, I rarely use THs, I just see why you might want to charge big critters (Because I do that myself ^_^)

[Grey Mage]

Why would you ever charge a big killy unit like a Carnifex, Bloodthirster, or Avatar if you could possibly help it? Maybe if it had a single wound left, I'd charge it, but if there's even a glimmer of a chance the beastie will survive the statistical average result of your charging it, why charge it in the first place? You're playing right into their hands, as these critters are fairly useless if they don't see combat, why give them a use?

 

Again, my premise regarding Thunder Hammers is: if you grab one you're either planning for failure or grabbing something that looks spiffy for 5 pts. The former is discouraged in designing efficient lists, the latter is also (but fine for the fluff oriented gamer or those who just really like the look of hammers). Tactically, not worth it.

1) Because theres a chance I can pull it off, and thus bring a heroic victory closer to my grasp.

2) Because around here all the Nidzillas are ranged monsters with a dozen shots and pie plates. Getting them in CC is actually a good idea, then you know whos getting hurt.

3) Avatar on the other hand when seen its mostly for the inspiring special rule- T 6 and 4 W on a 3+/4++ just isnt good enough to be a CC god these days.

 

So I think they are worth it, the main thing that stops me from putting it on a WG instead of a PF is that its hard to get the bitz to do so... and I hate hacking up iron priests to do it.

[Hfran Morkai]

Why would you ever charge a big killy unit like a Carnifex, Bloodthirster, or Avatar if you could possibly help it?

To prevent it gainng any extra attacks for charging, also to see the look on your opponents face. "You just charged a toughness 7 target and wound on 6's, why?" "Big :lol: hammer!"

[dragon950]

Usually run my terminator squads with 1HQ and now 5 Terminators. HQ has a frost blade and bodyguards have 2 or 3 power weapons. Then the rest has powerfists and atleast one chain fist for vehicles. Then add in an assualt cannon or a cyclone missile for big stuff. If they are equiped for assualt they power weapons and lighting claws with a heavy flamer and a chainfist for vehicles.

[clanfield]

hth vs a big arse enermy is soooo wolfy ,but still a last resort id much rather wade into the nice squishiey squads to my mind the t hammer is ideal vs dreadnoughts though

[Torin]

Well TH is good againts all those eternal warrior like those nasty phoenix lord. Imagine karandras hacking through your marine the first round then survive to hit you again on the second turn.... with a TH 1 turn you hit first... but 2turn my marine hit you first.. that makes a differences.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

But let's talk turkey here, where the TH pays for itself is getting your attacks off on that second round of combat against that Carnifex, bloodletter, Nurgle prince, Avatar, Hive Tyrant, basically anyhing with a T of 5+ with multi wounds means not only do your troops get to strike first at I4 but you ensure you get your attacks in regardless of the outcome.

 

WG Vrox.

 

I admit that I probably still have more fists than hammers in my company, but WG Vrox says it above... High toughness multi-wound models are often undone by thunder hammers. It really depends how many of these kind of opponents you come across.

 

And yeah, hammers look AWESOME :P

[Spacefrisian]

It just occured to me if you take a Powerfist or Thunderhamer on a Runepriest with a chooser (no other weapon) you gain an extra attack. Or did i overlooked some ruling?

[LPetersson]

It just occured to me if you take a Powerfist or Thunderhamer on a Runepriest with a chooser (no other weapon) you gain an extra attack. Or did i overlooked some ruling?

 

 

Why would you get an extra attack? Or do you mean when charging?

 

And as an aside, I would only take one or two THs because they look great and I like the probability of one or two hitting. The rest of the squad can have a mix of PFs and LCs...

[WG Vrox]

It just occured to me if you take a Powerfist or Thunderhamer on a Runepriest with a chooser (no other weapon) you gain an extra attack. Or did i overlooked some ruling?

 

This was discussed in a prior thread and has many different views, the majority felt the rule that states a TH or PF will never benefit from a +1 attack for 2 CC over ruled the Chooser's rule. Edit, oops what thinking of SS rule. NM

 

And as an aside, I would only take one or two THs because they look great and I like the probability of one or two hitting. The rest of the squad can have a mix of PFs and LCs...

 

If my HQ runs with a PF or TH, the pack he joins almost always runs with power weapons and not powerfists. Having a TH on the HQ is usually enough attacks at Str 8 to deal with whatever you encounter. This has worked very well for me in a Pod drop. 8 GH 2 PW, 1 WGPL TDA 2/LC, WL TDA TH/SS

[Grey Mage]

It just occured to me if you take a Powerfist or Thunderhamer on a Runepriest with a chooser (no other weapon) you gain an extra attack. Or did i overlooked some ruling?

Its debatable, but I think most people would let you. Chooser of the Slain counts as being equiped with an additional close combat weapon, so be prepared that some people will argue you dont count as being equiped with a "special close combat weapon". Feel free to smack them upside the head with a common sense device. Remember though that a storm shield still keeps you from getting the extra attack.

[WG Vrox]

double post

[CaptainSinon]

if your arguing what looks cooler id skip over both and go for the wolverine look :D

[WG Vrox]

if your arguing what looks cooler id skip over both and go for the wolverine look

 

With a potential 7 attacks all hitting on 3s and rerolling wounds at I-5, it is also a deadly beastie on the field.