Tarrandus Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I've got a couple questions about Independant Characters in CC. •An IC counts as a separate unit in assault. Does this mean he gets to make his own attempt at a sweeping advance? Does he have to make a separate morale check if his side loses combat? • People at my FLGS say an IC with a retinue is required to make the first move of a charge, and must be in base contact to attack. Is this true? Also, a specific question about the Black Templar's Emperor's Champion: ....E..C..E..E ..T..T..T..EC..T E=Enemy C=Enemy Character T=Templar EC=Emperor's Champion The Templars unit charges. The Emperor's Champion is not in contact with the enemy character, so he moves. Assuming everyone maintains coherency, is he allowed to move so he is like this? .......EC...... ....E..C..E..E ...T...T..T....T Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 For your first question, an IC 'rejoins' his unit after all attack but before combat resolution, so by the time it comes to a sweeping advance he is part of the unit again and so cannot make his own sweeping advance. For the 2nd, I can't see anything saying he has to lead the chance. IIRC it is still the closest model that moves first via the quickest route. And thirdly, I can't see anything wrong with moving the Emperors Champion in that manner, as long as he remains in unit coherency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/#findComment-2026569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Just remember if they have a character anywhere in the unit, including upgrade characters, hes got to try to hit them... In the case of enemy ICs I believe that means he has to try to be in BtB contact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/#findComment-2026614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Everything you need to know is covered on pages 34 and 49 of the BRB: 1. No, he is assumed as part of the unit after attacks are made, but before combat resolution happens, like what Darkguard said. 2. They are wrong. On page 34 it says the closest model to unit being assaulted must move first, not an independent character. 3. If the EC had sufficient movement to go all the way back there and was still in coherency, then yes he could, as per page 34. What they were probably thinking of is on page 49, where it says: "When a unit is reacting to being assaulted, or making a pile-in move, independent character that have joined the unit must move before other friendly models in order to get into base contact with an enemy if at all possible." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/#findComment-2026642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 An IC counts as a separate unit in assault. Does this mean he gets to make his own attempt at a sweeping advance? Does he have to make a separate morale check if his side loses combat? An Independent Character that is with a unit is only treated as a separate unit in HtH for the purposes of attacking or being attacked. For all other purposes it is still a part of the unit he is with, so there are no separate morale or pursuit rolls. People at my FLGS say an IC with a retinue is required to make the first move of a charge, and must be in base contact to attack. Is this true? They are wrong, as you can see for yourself on page 49. Independent Characters only are the first that have to be moved when the unit reacts to being assaulted or when it is piling in after a combat. It does not have to be teh first to be moved when performing an assault. The Templars unit charges. The Emperor's Champion is not in contact with the enemy character, so he moves. Assuming everyone maintains coherency, is he allowed to move so he is like this? Provided these three conditions are met, it is legal: - The Emperor's Champion can only move to contact Independent Characters, not any kind of Character (like unit Champions) - The EC has to maintain coherency with the unit he is with - There has to be enough space for him to move into contact with the enemy IC. friendly models can be moved out of the way, but enemy models cannot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/#findComment-2026643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 An Independent Character that is with a unit is only treated as a separate unit in HtH for the purposes of attacking or being attacked. For all other purposes it is still a part of the unit he is with, so there are no separate morale or pursuit rolls. Can you use an attached IC's Initiative for your Pursuit roll? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/#findComment-2026720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Can you use an attached IC's Initiative for your Pursuit roll? Possibly, check the BRB p40: "In a unit with mixed Initiative characteristics, count the majority value, or the highest if their is no majority". So the answer depends on the Init values of the other models in the unit as well as that of the attached IC. In this respect it works differently to leadership tests where an attached ICs higher value is always taken. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/171472-ic-in-cc/#findComment-2026736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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